Pammi 0 #1 June 13, 2002 I heard something last weekend that I've wondered some about. A person mentioned that they'd tried jumping, and thinking the fear would lessen, continued for a time, but instead it only got worse. This person decided it just wasn't for them. I wonder, now, if perhaps sometimes we push people to continue when we shouldn't...tell them that it'll get better, when maybe it won't? Where is the cut off between, "Okay, it's just NOT getting better." and, "This is just normal newbie fears."?I'd hate to press someone that really is not enjoying themselves to that extent but would feel bad about quitting it because they keep being told that it passes! I know, it's all individual and up to them to decide for themselves, but it would be a lie to say that any of us aren't influenced at least a little by what we're told.'Nuthin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slappie 9 #2 June 13, 2002 Quote it would be a lie to say that any of us aren't influenced at least a little by what we're told. Am I an influence-ee or an influence-er ?? I'm confused..A friend will get you out of jail.A best friend will be the one sitting next to you sayin, "f*king awesome" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #3 June 13, 2002 >I wonder, now, if perhaps sometimes we push people to continue when we> shouldn't...I think we do that way too often. We want to be supportive, but people die doing this, and if you have serious doubts that you can do it, your odds of dying go up quite a bit. This, more than most sports, is not a sport for everyone.You're right, the only one who can decide that is the person jumping (if they are otherwise competent, that is.) The questions I usually ask are:1. Are you pretty sure you can save your own life in an emergency? Without any safety nets (i.e. a JM, an RSL, an AAD.) 2. Is what you're getting out of jumping worth dealing with your fear?If the answer to either is no, then they might be better off staying on the ground. If they think that the answer to 2 is _probably_ yes then they'll probably be OK - fear does lessen with time.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrPurple 0 #4 June 13, 2002 I like to explain it like this...Skydiving may not everyone's bag, but at least try it so you can understand why I gibber about it all the time.Its important to do what works for you, whether that stamp collecting, skydiving, or avalanche surfing, it doesn't matter, find what works for your own tastes and do that. But try and do it well......and for heavens sake do something, don't veg around wasting your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pammi 0 #5 June 13, 2002 Good points Bill.And I think all of us who have already made the decision that we love it and are going to continue it (it's now are habit) are more the influencer in this situation. 'Nuthin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #6 June 13, 2002 I have seen several people that should just take up bowling...."Here I come to save the BOOBIES!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #7 June 13, 2002 This is a good issue. Did you know that most people's number one fear is public speaking? As a public speaker I just don't get this at a gut level. Same with skydiving, the only fear I have is of "fu**ing up" the group. I just don't get the fear some have of takeoff, positioning in the door, release, pull, flare and land. But that doesn't mean it's not real to the other person. What we without fear often feel is a "focus and respond" emotion. -Focus on correctly executing the skydive and respond correctly to any malfunction. Fear can lock that up and get people killed.Fear is often not rational, and some fear cannot be overcome. For some golf is the answer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #8 June 13, 2002 QuoteI just don't get the fear some have of takeoffYou're not a pilot are you? I can tell you that I have alittle concern in the back of my mind on every take off. A hot day + heavily loaded aircraft+ one engine fails=you land where ever the nose is pointed at the moment. No turning or looking for a better spot to set down. Engines can and will fail. We are just lucky most of the time. "Here I come to save the BOOBIES!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hagar 0 #9 June 13, 2002 Unless someone is really unsafe, I think we should always encourage them to continue jumping. They will quit sooner or later anyway if they REALLY where not meant to be skydiving. If they don't quit, they will probably thank you for pushing them after they have gotten over their fears.- the horrible Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skreamer 1 #10 June 13, 2002 I fear getting crippled for life. I'd like to think that that fear will keep me careful so I can continue jumping for as long as possible.Will"Look before you jump, don't die until you're dead" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tigra 0 #11 June 13, 2002 Good topic, Pammi,Like Bill said, this sport is not for everyone and sometimes there is a very fine line between being supportive/ encouraging and PUSHING. I watched one girl go through the whole student program (took awhile, and one very patient jumpmaster) and eventually make something like 40 or 50 jumps. She was constantly terrifed, and hurting herself. Can't even tell you how many times she went home with ice packs! But, she was doing it for a guy, and to prove to herself (and HIM, and everyone else for that matter) that she could. She was very determined, and wasn't about to listen to the "maybe this isn't for you" speech. When the realtionship finally ended, she stopped jumping, and I know a lot of us heaved a huge sigh of relief!Whenever I hear people talk about "converting" their girlfriends into skydivers, I think of her. There is only one reason to skydive, and that's because you LOVE it! just my thoughts.....maura Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shark 0 #12 June 13, 2002 We probably "push" people a little. Then again, it is ultimately "your" decision. I see this a lot when it gets really windy.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smiles 0 #13 June 13, 2002 more jumps = less fear?Every jump I make there is fear-I would not be comfortable skydiving if I didn't feel that fear.I started skydiving in 87, (army boots/round main&reserve) with slow static line progression from cessnas. After getting signed off for 15 sec. delays, headed for Coolidge Boogie with more experienced jumpers. Was offered there to jump one-on-one from large aircraft (14,500 ft.) with instructor.... opportunity to really get some freefall- instructor would have grips on me throughout, I could practise my body position and he would let go of upper grip so I could practise some turns.I didn't feel comfortable, everything in my body was screaming.."FEAR"- - -don't go for this....I made a choice to go anyway. My instructor lost me on exit, I started flat spinning - kicked him in the head afew times when he tried to dock- I spent whole dive trying to get out of my flat spins (unaware one knee down, my training for turns was to adjust upper body- and that didn't work) Got stable at 2,000 ft.- because I was stable and stopped my spins, altimeter awareness was next !!! My hand was coming in to pull when my reserve fired. (AAD set for 1600ft.) Landed my reserve out with those cacti- and then decided to quit skydiving because I had not listened to myself, I was not ready to be where I had been and should not of been there.It took me 6 months to decide to start jumping again- but never regretted my experience.Smiles. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Derekbox 0 #14 June 13, 2002 The way I see it, it is really simple.1) You need to be scared. Fear is our friend.It keeps us in check. When we get cocky we get complacent, and we die, or get femured, or... Hell, honestly, tempting death is half the fun isnt it? But you still have to respect him. Its one thing to tempt death, its another to bitch slap him...2) If you DO NOT want to be up there, hey thats cool. Dont do it. If you dont want to skydive, if you dont feel it in your blood, if you dont want to fly, if you dont want to die of sudden impact injuries dont do it. But see rule one. You can be both scared, yet want to do it. But you have to enjoy it. Thats the bottom line. Whats the point if you dont love it. If your not enjoying it, loving every second, hey, its cool. You tried, you tried.Thats my 2 cents.Derek->"Will work for jumps"->Daytona Beach Fl ->DZ: Deland->AIM: Derekbox Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thrillseek 0 #15 June 13, 2002 i started my own club last december. Soon thereafter, we had 40 dues-paying mambers....it all took off like a rocket. Within the course of 4 months though, my club suffered from two people with broken legs, and one double malfunction.Now, i am not such a motivational guy. If people want to quit, or are too afraid to want to jump, i'd say let em' leave. if someone is THAT scared or apprehensive about this they will undoubtedly cause problems that could put them at serious risk up there. Frankly, if someone has the creeps that bad, i don't want them to even fly in the plane with me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freebird 0 #16 June 13, 2002 You can also get killed driving to the DZ in a car accident...it is all in the mind....you are in control of YOUR destiny.........." ah geez" "The two of you's dummy up" !Archie Bunker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #17 June 13, 2002 >Unless someone is really unsafe, I think we should always encourage them to> continue jumping.I disagree. I've seen people who do not want to jump pushed into doing it by boyfriends, friends, kids etc. I used to do the same thing myself, and try to talk everyone I knew into jumping. I don't do that any more. I've seen enough people get killed to know that it's not something you should do lightly, just because some other guy wants you to.If they want to jump - great. But that desire has to come from them, not us.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freebird 0 #18 June 13, 2002 Confidence is the key word in skydiving..............You are in control......always remember you have choices and as long as your alive youcan decide the best possible to save your life if it comes down to that......You have to love skydiving and appreciate it fot wht is is purely......................Then make the the decision....do not continue skydiving until you accept that you reallly wnt to do this....there is a risk..but I believe it is also all in your mind and how much confidence you have that deterimines how good you will be........either make a commitment and jump or stop jumping until you make a desion..that is what I did...now I have decided I love this sport.....I can not imagine living without jumping.I will contine to jump because I believe I can be safe.......I will always put safety first.......I never had a fear at the door....Im always cool in freefal and the canopy ride is wonderful...I just love it..." ah geez" "The two of you's dummy up" !Archie Bunker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdrew20012001 0 #19 June 13, 2002 If they are dreading it and not having any fun than the whole excersize is pointless. I had a blast on every jump I did through the instructional phase and beyond, still do. If I weren't, I'd get out. It is ok to be tense, anxious, a little nervous but fear? I would think if the person has done more than a T1 and is afraid then you might double think it. It should be a rush, not a fright.Drewfus McDoofus Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #20 June 13, 2002 Yeah, Mighty, actually I have a lapsed pilot's license and I've soloed in the 172 and the Cherokee. (Skydiving beats the hell out of renting an airplane to go have lunch somewhere) Again, it's not fear, really, but focus. Our pilots do a thorough pre-flight and one of them is also our airframe and powerplant mechanic. If I thought it required luck to get off the ground I WOULD NOT get in the airplane. I admit there's risk, but from risk comes ADRENALINE!Next time the BOOBIES need saving, please, please call me.JP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #21 June 13, 2002 QuoteOur pilots do a thorough pre-flight and one of them is also our airframe and powerplant mechanic.I do that too.....and still lost an engine in a C-150 with less than 100 hours on the engine. Gave me a pretty good "Adrenaline Rush" "Here I come to save the BOOBIES!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jhus 0 #22 June 13, 2002 QuoteYou can also get killed driving to the DZ in a car accident...it is all in the mind....you are in control of YOUR destiny..........I hear this argument a lot, and yes it is true that you can die doing almost anything, including driving. But what you have to consider is the risk vs. the reward of these activities. If someone is to stop driving because it is dangerous then they must change their ENTIRE life. They are limited on how far they can travel from their home, they may not be able to get to thier job, they may have troubles getting food to the house, etc. So the reward is usually worth the risk of driving. For most of us reading this forum the personal benefits of skydiving are worth the risks. But believe it or not there are people who do not get the same benefits out of skydiving, and why should we push people to continue skydiving if they are not benefiting from it? If someone is to quit skydiving, this does not affect the other parts of their life, it just means they stop skydiving.jhus.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #23 June 13, 2002 had to "slip" it inUh, that feeling is a little different. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrumpySmurf 0 #24 June 13, 2002 The fear can, more or less, subside - but it can come back equally as quick, but in a different form - how long will you go on before you say 'enough is enough' with having people you personally know, die? Being able to talk to an individual the weekend, day or even the hour before - then have them simply gone the next - I've found that the hardest to deal with.The door is not a big deal, you get used to it, malfunctions, after the first - they don't seem so scary, landings - eventually you get the hang of it and wonder how you could ever have biffed one before - but coming down and seeing people running across the landing area to someone hurt (or worse) followed by an ambulance a minute or two later, and worrying it might be someone you know - I don't think you ever quite get used to that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nws01 0 #25 June 13, 2002 QuoteWhen is it time to quit?When the beer light comes on! Blue Skies,Nathan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
