Should I press charges?

[peachsouthern 0]

Hey Lisa,
I can totally relate. I work with emotionally disturbed kids along with every other type of special needs kid. My first advice is not to press charges. Reasoning behind that is shes use to the law, and someone like her knows the system better then any of us. She's been through it. She knows what she can and can't get a way with. And honestly, whats another group home? She has probably been through a bunch already. I'm not saying her behaving is acceptable by no means. This is where you have to stick with your rules of the class and make sure that the school follows there normal procedures. Most likely in my school - inschool suspension for a couple of days. It gives both of you time to cool off and her know that the school won't let her slide.

She's testing you. This is new grounds and she wants her presence known. And she will continue this as long as she knows you are intimidated by her or worried that she will do it again. So don't be. The next time she is in class act as if it didn't happen and go on with your normal routine. Shes looking for attention as Doug said before. It'll take a while for her to warm up to you cause she probably hasn't had anyone to trust. Would you trust anyone if you kept getting shitted on by the system?

Lastly, by law, any student that has any form of a disability that is recognized by Spec Ed or a record, that teacher has a right to know. All our teachers here get a copy of the students IEP's and backgrounds. Talk with the psychologist/social worker in your district. She had to have gotten pass them and received clearence to come to a public school. Explain your situation to either one of these with and try to find a common interest. I know sometimes this is virtually impossible. Even talk about skydiving. Most of these kids want someone to look up to. Just no one gives them a chance for them to let down their guards.

Good luck with this and PM if you need anything!!! And go get drunk!

"There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle." - Albert Einstein

[hmatousek 0]

I know what you are going through, I work with kids in Aurora IL. Most of mine are from broken, low income homes with loads of problems that I had nothing to do with.

First, and I am sure you know this, don't take it personally. I had a kid do something similar to me and I stood him aside and called his bluff. I told him that I know what he was doing and why he was doing it and that he would only get out of my class when he proved he was ready for the "real world". I basically told him that I wasn't going to turn him in reguardless of his behavior. Although we all know that in every situation that is not always true but at least the kid responded somewhat positively and we made it through the year.

Hope this helps and best of luck.

Life doesn't have to be perfect in order to be beautiful!

[VanillaSkyGirl 6]

(((((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))))

Sorry that this had to happen to you. Lisa. I love working with children, so I got my teaching credentials a few years back and took time off from my then career as a costume designer to work as a teacher. I worked as a teacher in a private, Catholic school and as a substitute teacher in a well-known private school in L.A. (The children in the Catholic school were more disorderly. LOL!)

I want to remind you what it feels like to get through to those difficult ones...those are the kids that we always remember, huh? Also, what about when they tell you how much you mean to them...they even tell us that they love us. How sweet is that? To know that you have touched someone so deeply.

I learned so much about children and people in general, as a teacher. For instance, if I kept my voice loving and explained why I do certain things, then I usually did not have to raise my voice. Screaming or getting angry is never effective! LOL! Also, I realized that looking the children in their eyes and smiling from my heart lit up their little eyes, and they usually became instantly attentive.
You have such a big heart, Lisa, and I am sure that you are a fabulous teacher. Think about how sad or upset this girl must be now that she has had an incident with you. She may pretend that she likes this behavior, but emotional turmoil is never fun for anyone. Deep down, I think that most people hurt from having made others unhappy. She may be used to having problems and drama, and she may be having a hard time just being "happy", so she herself creates problems. Her actions were a desperate cry for help, but even she may not know what will make her happy.

If you do no mind suggestions, I think that you should sit the child down and find out the child's history from the child's point of view, since the home will not let you find out about her past. (Of course, try to research her history through other means first.) Give her love and plenty of hugs. Tell her that you will always be there for her to talk with if she wants to talk. Make her feel wanted. Tell her that you forgive her if she is sorry. Tell her that you want to put this incident in the past and begin anew. Please do not press charges. Try positive reinforcement first.

If she is really being difficult, take her with you to the principal's office and talk to her about your options. Discuss things both in front of the principal and with her alone. Explain to her that you can press charges and go through each scenario that would ensue. Explain how that may affect her if she has to leave the school or her new home, again. Ask her what she thinks that she can do to help you make things better. Ask her if she will work with you as a team to change things together.

I am sure that you do not need lessons on how to be a good teacher, Lisa. You seems like an excellent one already.
I love you, Lisa, for working with these kids. You are such an angel.

[mouth 0]

WHEW...I'm finally home. God knows it has been a long day for me. I'm going to admit up front I haven't read all the posts here yet but I wanted to go ahead and tell you what my solution to this was.

First off I stood by my conviction not to press charges for the following reasons. 1..She is already involved with the legal system or she wouldn't be in the group home she is in. 2..I can honestly find no valid reason to have her sent to a youth detention center. I've seen how they operate and she would love it there because that behavior is expected there. 3..She wants to be sent back home and thinks that it will happen when she runs out of placement options. Sadly, I've worked for the department of Family and Children Services and know for a fact that happens all the time.

I chose for her to have the maximum in school suspension allowed of 10 days. I don't think going home to the group home for 10 days will make much of an impact as they tend to roam the streets and do as they please there. At school she will be expected to complete the work and remain up with her class. During those 10 days I will send her class assignments to her. Know now that my ISS assignments are about 3-4 times as long as a regular class assignment.

Before she is returned to class I am requesting a conference with an administrator and the school counselor. I will outline my expected behaviors as well as my zero tolerance for a second offense. I will expect a full apology in front of my class because the offense took place in front of my class. ANY and I mean ANY slight deviation from the expected behavior will result in her being again removed from my classroom.

As for paddling I see way to many risks involved there and will stay far away from that. A child who has obviously been neglected and possibly abused will not respond to further punishment physically thus I feel I need to reach her mentally. I'm not sure I'm the one to do it, but....

As for her record. There is absolutely nothing in her file except her SSN, birth certificate, and shot record. Who knows? I could be dealing with a murderer or simply an unloved child.

I feel like there is so much more I could/should do but obviously as a teacher my hands are tied. All I can do is what I think is right and hope that it is enough, and pressing charges just didn't seem right. Yes, I may regret it at a later date but this afternoon I don't.

No, I don't like my job right now. Yes, I'm having a beer and it is only 4:30 here. Thank you for all your responses. I promise to read them all and consider them except maybe DJL/s...come on man.

Thanks for listening to me vent and for the honest advice and support.

--
Hot Mama
At least you know where you stand even if it is in a pile of shit.

[billvon 3,006]

>Teachers should discipline as well, to a degree. I think corporal
> punishment is over the line. A good teacher can be amazingly
> effective without ever laying a hand on a kid.

For most teachers with most kids I'd agree.

>No kids run around screaming in my wife's class, and she doesn't
>have to beat them to instill discipline.

That's true in 99% of the cases. But heck, a cop doesn't need his nightstick in 99% of the cases he deals with on a daily basis. Does that mean it should be taken away? Should it be taken away because some cops have, on occasion, misused them? No - _that_cop_ should lose it. Not because nightsticks never work, but because he misused a tool.

Corporal punishment is something that should almost never be used - it's essentially an admission that better alternatives have failed. But both teachers and parents should have it as an absolute last resort. For ten months every year, a teacher has students for most of the student's day. Like it or not, they learn a significant amount of how the world works during that time. 99% of students learn that lesson without corporal punishment, but 1% (.1%? .01%) would (I believe) benefit from learning that there are some things you are simply not going to get away with with just a detention.

>Life isn't fair. Unjust detention happens. But is that the same as an
>undeserved beating by an authority figure?

I think undeserved punishment is about the same, whether it comes in the form of being essentially locked in a room for an hour (detention) a swat on the rear end (whether it comes from dad or the teacher) or whatever. In both cases you're being punished for something you didn't do. The stigma associated with corporal punishment comes from society; getting spanked really isn't physically harmful to kids, and is no more psychologially harmful than most other forms of punishment. (Of course, it doesn't take even a very good lawyer to turn a spanking into justification for later crimes, but that's not reality.)

>Using the same logic, life isn't fair, so why make a big deal about
> wrongful imprisonment or innocent people getting the death
> penalty?

Uh, because killing people is different than spanking a kid?

> Because at some point, we have to do our best to be fair, and make
> sure that the ramifications of mistakes aren't too great.

I agree. The ramifications of mistakenly spanking the wrong kid are pretty minor. Letting him grow into someone who knows he can get away with whatever he wants has more serious ramifications (I think.)

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

I wouldn't press charges.

Good luck, sounds like you have a tough job! Much respect to you.

Angela.

[Zenister 0]

Nice job and i'm glad you've cooled off, but suspension is just a free vacation. Anyone with a delinquent attitude doesnt want to be there anyway, once they find the method that facilitates that...well it likely wont get better when she is in class. Yes the time away will affect her grades education and overall advancement, but kids dont see it that way.....i know i never did and i once set records for most number of days missed in a semester. (I didnt want to be there so i wasnt)...being suspended as a result was more comedy than anything else....

someone needs to 'take charge' of her, but it isnt your job (honestly I beleive you have to teach those who want to learn and try not to let those who do not affect that.) and noone in the group home is likely to care very much...

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[mouth 0]

I agree I needed to cool off. (Be thankful you didn't have to see me mad.) I chose inschool suspension or ISS because she will still be expected to be in school on those 10 days. She will have to sit in a seperate classroom all day with "walls"around her desk, and have no contact with anyone else while completing her assigned work. This way she gets a "time out" while still being forced to complete her work.

If she doesn't do her work then she will of course be again written up and possibly sent home for a length of time. At that point she will most likely be sent back through the juvenile system. I can at least say I tried to help her all I could the rest was up to her.

I guess there comes a time in life where we all have to accept responsibility for our actions and her time is now.

--
Hot Mama
At least you know where you stand even if it is in a pile of shit.

[cloudseeker2001 0]

stick that pencil up her ass.....sideways.

"Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance,
others mean and rueful of the western dream"

[peachsouthern 0]

Nice work Lisa!!!! You had some real tough decisions and I think you did awesome!!. You know what the system is like. Sometimes it takes taking a deep breath and stepping out of the situation to see what is really going on! She will appreciate it in the long run. Remember it only takes ONE person to make a change in a person life, and this might be you!!

The only thing that I would disagree with is having her make an apology in front of the class. She def needs to apologize to you, and this might be a good time for you and her to sit and talk (though you might not get a alot out of her). If you make her do it in front of the class she might feel threaten. You want to approach this slowly. I know you want to set an example for the class, she just might not be the person that should set it. I'm sure the students in your class already know that you don't tolerate that behavior. And if they ask, you explain what was done and that she apologized to you. It's a lot better then embarrassed kids in front of their peers.

Otherwise enjoy the beers, and I'm sure there will be many more to follow todays!!!

"There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle." - Albert Einstein

[McDuck 0]

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Press charges. There are consequences for their actions.

I agree. Let this pass, and she'll get the impression that she can get away with more. Perhaps putting her on one of those "shadow" programs would straighten her ass out. You know, where they go to a prison as a "guest" and get hassled by the inmates. At the very least, she could start picking out a bunkmate.

Kevin - Sonic Beef #5 - OrFun #28
"I never take myself too seriously, 'cuz everybody know fat birds don't fly." - FLC
Online communities: proof that people never mature much past high school.

[oldnewbie 0]

I also teach school, and have often thought about what would happen in this situation. Usually my students just take a swing at their teachers. Mine are high school.

I decided a long time ago that if a student ever hits/throws something at me, before i call the office, i will call *911* . Then i will call the office.

I know it may be hard to press charges, but when your small students become my big/high school students, I hope that they realize what happens when you do something like this!! I think the only way that they will learn this is to get punished when they act out!!!

[McDuck 0]

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I think the only way that they will learn this is to get punished when they act out!!!

Yes, we live in a society where barbarism is held at bay only through constant attention to rules and regulations. Cause and effect, action and consequence need to be stressed at an early age. When I was growing up, it was fear that kept me in check. Fear of what would happen to me if I turned into a problem child. That fear grew into respect as I grew older, and I understood that you can't bash your way through life and expect to get away with it.

"Letting this go" might just serve to present the image that it's acceptable to use violence and aggression as a tool to get one's way.

Kevin - Sonic Beef #5 - OrFun #28
"I never take myself too seriously, 'cuz everybody know fat birds don't fly." - FLC
Online communities: proof that people never mature much past high school.

[mouth 0]

If you guys read my response you'll see that I didn't "just let it go". The child has to face certain consequences that will be unplesant. No, I didn't return her back to the system that placed her here 2 days ago because I really didn't see it serving any learning purpose. She would simply move to another home then another etc.

At least she is here, maybe settling in, dealing with a situation she caused rather than running away from it AND she is having to face some consequences. I consider this a learning experience for her.

Just because I didn't have her locked up in juvenile court or paddled doesn't mean she isn't being punished.

--
Hot Mama
At least you know where you stand even if it is in a pile of shit.

[Keith 0]

Stop defending yourself. I, for one, believe you did the right thing.

Keith

Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville

[McDuck 0]

Ah, see what happens when you don't read a thread THOROUGHLY? Good choice. When I was in school, there was no worse punishment than having to be suspended ON campus. From what I heard, it was like detention and solitary confinement coupled with extra homework.

I'm just going to wipe off what I stepped in with my previous post.

Kevin - Sonic Beef #5 - OrFun #28
"I never take myself too seriously, 'cuz everybody know fat birds don't fly." - FLC
Online communities: proof that people never mature much past high school.

[FallinWoman 1]

I think you did the right thing. It is not easy to be in that situation as a teacher....I totally understand!

If there happens to be a next time with this student....then consider a more serious response. You do at some point have to look out for your safety and the safety of the other students.

~Anne

I'm a Doll!!!!

[mouth 0]

Thank you, Keith for grounding me the past few minutes. I appreciate your support.

--
Hot Mama
At least you know where you stand even if it is in a pile of shit.

[Keith 0]

You're welcome. Of course I'm 'spectin' a kiss on the cheek when next we meet

Keith

Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville

[Deuce 1]

I wish I was home earlier, I support your decision.

You are a great teacher with the great instinctive responses of a great parent, with girls of your own.

Most of these kids don't know how to succeed, cause nobody has ever shown them the path to success. It is possible that by showing this girl the way to stay in school and succeed by clearly defining expectations, that she will succeed. That will be glorious, and it will happen once in a while. This may be one of those chances.

I hope so. You are doing the ethical, compassionate thing, and I am proud of the work you do.

Hugs and respect,
JP

[freefallfreak 0]

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Stop defending yourself. I, for one, believe you did the right thing.

Ditto...nuff said.

TripleF

[vonSanta 0]

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Quote

Odd, we didn't have problems like that back when I was in school. If you acted up you were going to get your ass worn out with the paddle.....period. Likewise, if you showed your ass at home, your parents wore your butt out with a switch.

Fuck that "kindler and gentle" shit.

Chuck

Amen to that! It was nothing to see a teacher slap the shit out of a kid.......kid would straighten up..........parents would deal out worse.....I turned out fine. I got what I deserved because I freakin knew better, period.

Heh YOU try spank ME when i was 14-16. I was (still am) a skinny, scrawly kid. Anyone who tried to lay a hand on me I'd fight - no matter his or her size, position or authority. It got me into a lot of trouble and I lost more fights than I care to admit.

Physical punishment works fine with those that don't hit back and those that have a semblance of respect for authority But to try to spank "problem kids" in their mid teens is a recipy for disaster. If they're anything like I was, they'll defend that last vestige of honour and self respect they have to the last drop of blood - damn the torpedoes, flank speed ahead.

And what are you left with when a student has beaten the crap out of a teacher? Criminal procedures and counter-suits.

Some kids have a spirited nature. No amount of physical violence by figures of authority can remove it - they can quell it a bit at best. This *will* result in a dark hatred building up in the kids though - one that might be very hard to get rid of. Hatred is a great motivator, but usually doesn't support good things.

Santa Von GrossenArsch
I only come in one flavour
ohwaitthatcanbemisunderst

[Tonto 1]

You're kidding, right?
Students shoot at their teachers here. Sometimes they hit, but mostly, no.
For a pencil? I'd let it slide. Sounds more like a clash of wills and ego damage to me.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[Luv2Fall 0]

Your right...in a lot of those cases it doesn't work........I've seen a case or two where it has................ when the right person got a hold of them.......and was thanked for it........not a common occurance.

[mouth 0]

Just thought I'd let you all know the girl came by my room VOLUNTARILY and apologized to me without me saying anything to her. She admitted she was wrong in front of her class with no prompting from me or anyone else.

I still sent her almost 4 times the work that I gave my regular class and will most likely continue to do so for the rest of her in school suspension, but I think I made some headway with getting her attention without laying a hand on her or allowing her to roam the streets for a week.

I'm happy with my decision and had a good day...except for lunch which was gross. School lunches are horrible. Someone order me a pizza tomorrow and have it delivered around 12:15...PLEASE

--
Hot Mama
At least you know where you stand even if it is in a pile of shit.