billvon 3,064 #1 October 20, 2003 Nathaniel Heatwole was charged today with carrying a concealed weapon on board an aircraft, a felony punishable by 10 years in prison. He carried six packages containing box cutters, fake explosives and bottles of bleach onto Southwest Airlines flights, then hid them in lavatories. The packages sat there for about a month before Heatwole sent anonymous email tips to the TSA. Two have so far been found. He claims he did it to show the holes in airport security; the FBI (predictably) sees things differently. Should be an interesting case. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 6 #2 October 20, 2003 Activist. With complete incorrect efforts. Even if he had the best of intentions he was still guilty of bringing banned items into a secured area. The law is the law. What he is charged with is very serious. But do I believe he deserves 10 years in jail? Absolutely not. I hope they give him a minimum sentence.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #3 October 20, 2003 Both I think. I hope he gets something extremely light. And a thank you letter from TSA. Perhaps - like they did with some hackers a few years ago - they'll offer him a job as a security consultant of sorts. He did break the law, however. It will be an interesting case. My initial thoughts. Beers and smiles to all, Vinny the AnvilVinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kiltboy 0 #4 October 20, 2003 Idiot? I think he should get his knuckles rapped if only to deter other idiots from trying the same thing. Not the best of ideas regardless of his intentions. David Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyIvan 0 #5 October 20, 2003 He's neither a Criminal nor an Activist...he's just a plain MORON.__________________________________________ Blue Skies and May the Force be with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 6 #6 October 20, 2003 Oh, I don't think he's a moron. I think he knew exactly what he was doing.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #7 October 20, 2003 The guy was a moron. even though HE didn't mean to use the weapons, he made them accessible to anyone who might happen across them. He created the very danger he was trying to prevent by pointing out the security holes. Its amazing what goes on in airline security... they wouldn't let me take nail clippers on the plane (I always carry the toiletries on because I keep medication in there that I need...didn't even think about the clippers), but let me through wearing a set of EXTREMELY sharp hairsticks made out of ironwood... those things are freakin LETHAL. Nail clippers couldn't do shit... the hairsticks are wooden stillettos. go figure. Also, they took the nailclippers, but then handed out METAL steakknives to the first class passengers for dinner! ROFL. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 6 #8 October 20, 2003 QuoteAlso, they took the nailclippers, but then handed out METAL steakknives to the first class passengers for dinner! ROFL. And people wonder why pilots want guns in the cockpit. The threats are still out there and they are very real.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #9 October 20, 2003 How would people feel if someone had discovered the box knives and committed a crime on a flight, I wonder? I predict this guy will make the rounds on the morning shows and will be treated as a well-meaning prankster, AOL is already asking if we owe him a debt of gratitude. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #10 October 20, 2003 He is apparently both. He was charged with "taking a dangerous weapon onto an aircraft." I haven't seen the statute, but I reckon that the statute makes it a crime if he "knowingly" takes the box cutters on. So, he's a criminal if that's the law. People who enter a military bombing range to stop the bombing are also criminals, but criminals with a purpose. It seems that this kid was trying to poitn something out. However, he did so like a person who calls the cops and says, "I just purchased 100 dollars worth of crack from Joe Snuffy, and he should be arrested." When the cops show up, the person with the crack goes to jail. Good intentions. But a crime nonetheless. I hope he gets off lightly... My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #11 October 20, 2003 GOOD FOR HIM"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #12 October 20, 2003 Quote hope they give him a minimum sentence. he should be made to eat airline food for a year. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 6 #13 October 20, 2003 QuoteQuote hope they give him a minimum sentence. he should be made to eat airline food for a year. I said MINIMUM SENTENCE! Have you no conscience man? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyIvan 0 #14 October 20, 2003 Quotehe should be made to eat airline food for a year. That AND be in the middle seat between a FAT bastard and a crying baby, a non-stop flight to Borneo and back for a month__________________________________________ Blue Skies and May the Force be with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #15 October 20, 2003 QuoteI said MINIMUM SENTENCE! Have you no conscience man? It is cruel isn't it. But it would make others think before trying something like it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nathaniel 0 #16 October 21, 2003 well, IMO the passenger airline business is in a tough spot. Even with all the madness an airline like El-Al goes through, it's not hard to imagine methods that 10, or 110 Evil people could use to wreck a plane from the inside out... the perception of security, rather than real security, is literally what's keeping the major airlines in the air. So I can understand if people get upset when somebody reminds us it's not safe. nathanielMy advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gmanpilot 0 #17 October 21, 2003 I guess I can speak to this. I work for the TSA (no, I'm not a screener). This guy is probably a decent kid. He's just an activist with an agenda. Activism is important, and I do respect those with the courage of their convictions. I do not, however, respect the decision to place people in potential danger just to make a redundant point. There has been no epiphany at the TSA as the result of this kids actions. I'm pretty sure they know how porous the screener operations are, and I'd bet they are working hard to improve it. The worst part of it is that the screening points are not the achilles heel in aviation security, not by a long shot. I'm sure the US Attorney will make an example of him. I hope they do not ruin his life though. He made an error in judgement, havent we all. If I do get to meet him, I'm gonna kick him right in the ass. He has introduced an element of drama into my daily life that I just don't need._________________________________________ -There's always free cheese in a mouse trap. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,064 #18 October 21, 2003 >There has been no epiphany at the TSA as the result of this kids actions. Perhaps not, but there may be epiphanies at other agencies concerning the TSA, and it sounds like the TSA is adjusting its own procedures. From CNN: Congress to review TSA after box cutter incident Tuesday, October 21, 2003 WASHINGTON (AP) -- Congress wants to know how a 20-year-old college student apparently spirited box cutters and other suspicious items onto two airplanes, where they lay undetected for weeks after he allegedly told the Transportation Security Administration what he had done. He even e-mailed officials his name and telephone number, the FBI said. Rep. Tom Davis, R-Virginia, chairman of the House Government Reform Committee, said Monday he told TSA chief James Loy that the panel would review the agency's operations, including airline passenger screening. "Despite significant seizures of prohibited items from passengers going through TSA security checkpoints, this week's events highlight possible weaknesses in the system which need to be addressed," Davis said in a letter to Loy. . . . TSA spokesman Mark Hatfield said the agency was reviewing its procedures. "Following an event like this, the results usually include adjustments and improvements in the procedures," he said. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #19 October 21, 2003 QuoteThere has been no epiphany at the TSA as the result of this kids actions. Also, from the AP: Box cutter case prompts air-safety vows - - - - - - - - - - - - By Leslie Miller Oct. 21, 2003 | WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Bush administration pledged Tuesday to move more aggressively against potential threats in the wake of an incident in which federal authorities said a young man boasted about successfully compromising airline security. From now on, a Transportation Security Administration official said, the agency will automatically single out for response any threatening communication and will seek to better train its employees on how to recognize such messages. "The system should have picked it up. If this highlights a flaw in the system, it could be relatively easily corrected," TSA spokesman Mark Hatfield acknowledged in an interview on ABC's "Good Morning America." His statement came a day after Nathaniel Heatwole of Damascus, Md., was charged in federal court in Baltimore with taking a dangerous weapon aboard an aircraft. The case against Heatwole, 20, followed discovery of bags containing box cutters, bleach and other prohibited items aboard two Southwest Airlines planes. The government says Heatwole spirited box cutters onto two airplanes and then told the TSA what he did. Premium Benefits Salon's latest music mix Listen to 16 tracks from artists like June Carter Cash, Warren Zevon and Steve Earle. Get Premium on your PDA or Wireless device One year subscription to Wired magazine Give the gift of Premium for only $20 $25 discount on your next ticket purchase from RazorGator.com Get a free month of Premium when you refer a friend Choose one of six best selling audio books like Jonathan Franzen's "How to Be Alone" 6 month subscription to Mother Jones magazine Get Salon's headlines delivered to your e-mail address But an FBI affidavit said it was more widespread. On Sept. 15, the document said, the Transportation Security Administration received an e-mail from Heatwole saying he had "information regarding six security breaches" at the Raleigh-Durham and Baltimore-Washington airports between Feb. 7 and Sept. 14. Hatfield conceded Tuesday that the TSA must help its employees become more capable of recognizing the threatening messages among some 5,700 complaints, queries, compliments and other comments that flow daily into the agency's Contact Center. Hatfield said layers of airline security have been added since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. Even if a passenger got a forbidden item past a checkpoint, he said on NBC's "Today" show, there are other safeguards built in, such as strengthened cockpit doors and the presence in many instances of onboard air marshals. "We have a security system built on layers and the layer we call passenger screening, while it's vastly improved over the pre-9-11 era, it still has its limitations," Hatfield told NBC. The incident has produced calls in Congress for hearings into the performance of the TSA. After his court appearance Monday, Heatwole, a junior at Guilford College in Greensboro, N.C., was released without bail for a preliminary hearing Nov. 10. He faces up to 10 years in prison. Heatwole sent an e-mail to federal authorities in mid-September saying he had put the items aboard two specific Southwest flights as an act of civil disobedience to expose weaknesses in the security system, an FBI affidavit said. The objects were not found until last week, more than a month later. Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge, whose department includes TSA, said the agency gets a high volume of e-mails about possible threats and officials decided that Heatwole "wasn't an imminent threat." Heatwole's e-mail provided details of where the plastic bags were hidden -- right down to the exact dates and flight numbers -- along with Heatwole's name and telephone number. The TSA did not send the e-mail to the FBI until last Friday. FBI agents then located Heatwole and interviewed him. In response to the incident, Rep. Tom Davis, R-Va., chairman of the House Government Reform Committee, said Monday he told TSA chief James Loy that the panel would review the agency's operations, including airline passenger screening. "Despite significant seizures of prohibited items from passengers going through TSA security checkpoints, this week's events highlight possible weaknesses in the system which need to be addressed," Davis said in a letter to Loy. Rep. Peter DeFazio, the top Democrat on the House Transportation aviation subcommittee, said someone should be fired because of the incident. But he said Loy, a former Coast Guard commandant, should stay if he owns up to what the agency's deficiencies are. "I'm still willing to give the admiral a chance to come clean with us," said DeFazio, D-Ore. "He's a political appointee under tremendous pressure by this administration to cut corners, make things look good, not upset the airlines and not upset the passengers." The incidents followed reports that aviation security still has substantial gaps more than two years after the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks. Significant weaknesses in testing and training TSA screeners were cited in recent reports by the Homeland Security Department's inspector general and the General Accounting Office, Congress's investigative arm. The inspector general's investigators recently carried knives, a bomb and a gun through Boston Logan International Airport's boarding procedures without being detected. Both hijacked airliners that crashed into the World Trade Center took off from Logan.__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
meltdown 0 #20 October 21, 2003 Its amazing what goes on in airline security... ______________________________________________ No Kidding. I always get a kick out of the security people making my 7 year old daughter (who has cerebral palsy), get out of her wheelchair so they can frisk her. This happens everytime she flies, no exception. Every time I want to take a picture, but then they'd probably toss me in the slammer. Meanwhile people are bringing all kinds of dangerous shit on board. Maybe profiling isn't such a bad thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
indyz 1 #21 October 21, 2003 QuoteMaybe profiling isn't such a bad thing. What profile did Heatwole fit? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EricaH 0 #22 October 21, 2003 Well, he's prob like most of my other relatives. Pasifictic protestor. Against big govt, against war & ready to do something to clean up the world. Instead oof putting him in jail they should communicate his service to 7-10 working TSA - I bet he'd even like that punishment.. There is no can't. Only lack of knowledge or fear. Only you can fix your fear. PMS #227 (just like the TV show) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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