Safire2 vs Pilot

[ataltitude 0]

Hi I was wondering what is better on openings, if anyone has jumped both.

[Rigless 0]

From what I know Safire2 has THE softest openings of all the intermediate group canopies (like Sabre2, Safire2, Pilot, Fusion etc..).

"All limits are self imposed." Icarus

[virgin-burner 1]

dude, u're from NZ and ask what to jump? what's wrong with you!?

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[hcsvader 1]

I've jumped both. Both have opened most of the time.

Have you seen my pants?
it"s a rough life, Livin' the dream
>:)

[flashvortx 0]

I have 300 jumps on a Pilot and have had fantastic openings. The opening speed can be very easily adjusted when you pack it. Anywhere from firm (how I like it) to a pretty decent snivel. I have about 10 jumps with a Safire2 and they're known for snivelling. Someone that started jumping about the same time as me bought one because of the long opening time.

The Safire has soft/long openings and a good flare but is pretty boring to fly. The Pilot is a lot of fun even at 1.3

[virgin-burner 1]

boring to fly? where did you pick up that "gem"!?

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[GLIDEANGLE 1]

For some of us "boring to fly" is a desirable characteristic!

The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

[theonlyski 8]

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For some of us "boring to fly" is a desirable characteristic!

My Safire2 is kind of boring to fly, not so much so that I want to sell it though. The openings are perfect for me, and that's what I want. Those Sabre2 openings got... interesting at times.

Damn thing turns on a dime and recovers pretty effin fast though!

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[bqmassey 0]

Is the general consensus that a Safire 2 is more docile (or "boring") to fly than a Pilot at the same wingloading?

I was under the impression that it's the other way around.

[popsjumper 2]

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Is the general consensus that a Safire 2 is more docile (or "boring") to fly than a Pilot at the same wingloading?

I was under the impression that it's the other way around.

Evaluations are tough when personal preference gets involved. It's hard to sort out the subjective preferences and stick with just an objective evaluation.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[dragon2 2]

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Is the general consensus that a Safire 2 is more docile (or "boring") to fly than a Pilot at the same wingloading?

I was under the impression that it's the other way around.

You're right, a pilot is a bit less HP than a safire. I've owned both and liked both. Both make excellent intermediate/wingsuit/cameraflyer canopies

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[voilsb 1]

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Hi I was wondering what is better on openings, if anyone has jumped both.

Please define "better on openings" for us.

It could mean smoother, softer, faster or slower (time), longer or shorter (altitude), heading behavior, inflation/end cell issues, sensitivity to body position, or maybe something else to different jumpers.

For me, in example, I prefer a canopy that opens 90% or better on heading, forgiving of body position, in less than 750 ft (or even 500 ft) without slamming me too hard, without the slider getting stuck.

So far, I have not found this canopy.

Brian

[flashvortx 0]

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For me, in example, I prefer a canopy that opens 90% or better on heading, forgiving of body position, in less than 750 ft (or even 500 ft) without slamming me too hard, without the slider getting stuck.

So far, I have not found this canopy.

My Pilot gives me about those results. If I have an off heading opening it's generally because of a quick pack job. I like a snug opening, and I can pack it to open in about 500-750.

[BIGUN 1,314]

I owned both at the same time.
Pilot had more positive on-heading openings.
Safire2 had softer non on-heading openings.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[theonlyski 8]

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I owned both at the same time.
Pilot had more positive on-heading openings.
Safire2 had softer non on-heading openings.

I've found on the Safire2 that if I split the nose and fold 4 on each side in towards the center, it opens on heading way more than it did if I just left the nose hanging.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[Throttlebender 0]

I'm almost in line with BIGUN's statement. I've got about a 100 jumps on each and I feel that the Pilot is a bit quicker to open than the Safire but just as soft. The Pilot is also on heading more than the Safire. The Pilot is also more responsive(quicker) for toggle input than the Safire. The Safire is lighter on rear risers. Both have quick recovery arcs when using fronts. The Safire has a more powerful flare and the flare is what I wasn't enjoying about the Pilot. And yes, I practiced different stages and speeds for the flare stroke. I also flare deeply every time.

Life expands or contracts in proportion to one's courage. ~Anais Nin

[billvon 2,991]

>I was under the impression that it's the other way around.

That was my experience. Amy's Safire2 119 was a lot more fun than my Pilot 117.

[BIGUN 1,314]

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Is the general consensus that a Safire 2 is more docile (or "boring") to fly than a Pilot at the same wingloading?

I was under the impression that it's the other way around.

I agree with you and Bill regarding flying, but only addressed the OP's opening question.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[pilot-one 0]

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>I was under the impression that it's the other way around.

That was my experience. Amy's Safire2 119 was a lot more fun than my Pilot 117.

That's weird because there is no doubt for me the Pilot is much more fun than an equal size Safire 2. In oher words the Pilot is more responsive and had a much more powerful flare. Maybe production tolerences come into play here? Or possibly wing loading?

[stayhigh 2]

You mean your pilot had way too short steering lines compared to safire???

Pilot flies and opens like brick compare to safire. Imo

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[extreme78 0]

I'm looking for my first rig, so I decided to try as many canopies as o can. I'm my opinion Saphire2 opens smoother then pilot, also has more flare. Pilot seemed a little more aggressive but for what I need now Safire 2 seems perfect.

A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others.

[nbblood 0]

Personally, I think the Safire2 opens too slow and too soft. I think there is also some inconsistency over how many feet that occurs from one jump to the next. I much prefer a canopy that opens consistently and quicker (not hard, just quicker) than the Safire2. To me the Pilot openings are the ideal opening for any canopy. I wish every canopy opened that way, abruptly but not hard, on opening, and consistent.

As for bottom end, I simply cannot believe that some are claiming the Safire2 has more. That is totally not my experience. The Safire2 I jumped, wingloaded at about 1.3 at the time, had less bottom end, or flare power of any canopy I've ever jumped, except a T-10 if you're gonna count that. They were close though!

Blues,
Nathan

If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

[billvon 2,991]

>That's weird because there is no doubt for me the Pilot is much more fun
>than an equal size Safire 2.

What loading were you at? I was at about 1.7.

[Joellercoaster 6]

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What loading were you at? I was at about 1.7.

Bill, sorry to drag this thread a little off-topic, but I have a Pilot loaded at or just under that (depending). And my feeling is that I'm right on the edge of where it's happy to be loaded... I feel like it doesn't have quite the flat glide of my other Pilots (loaded from 1.1 to 1.5) had, and it can run out of flare a bit at the bottom end by comparison... it's less apparent on front-riser approaches though.

Do you think maybe we arrived at the edge of the Pilot's WL sweet spot?

This isn't a dig at the Pilot BTW, I think it's a brilliant canopy and I am quite sure I'll never sell this one.

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[mircan 0]

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You mean your pilot had way too short steering lines compared to safire???

In my experience, Icarus canopies (at least models that I jumped: Safires and Crossfires) have longer steering lines than canopies from other manufacturers. Thus, must people that I know that came from, say PD background, think about Safires and Crossfires as sluggish. And that they lack bottom end flare. And the reality is that they just don`t flare long enough.

When I replaced lower steering lines this spring, rigger put them a little short than the original and my Xfire behaved totally different than I was used to. It felt more snappier and more responsive, but only up to a certain point in toggle stroke length. I After couple of jumps we just put back more slack and it was business as usual.

dudeist skydiver #42