Found Skydiving video, terrible cutaway

[jplaca 0]

This is my first post on this forum, but I've been reading a lot. I am in the middle of training for my AFF1 - Anyways, I was looking up skydiving videos and found this one

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1851799530434906028&q=skydiving+fatality+site%3Avideo.google.com&total=3&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

What would you have done in this situation?

[pilotdave 0]

Better quality version with less annoying sound track, along with comments by the guy in the video: http://www.skydivingmovies.com/ver2/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=1209

Dave

[moto89 0]

Scary situation... Glad he eventually got rid of the main, that could have been very ugly.


On another note, that was quite possibly the most annoying soundtrack I have ever heard in my entire life. Seriously.

Less talking, more flying.

[jplaca 0]

yeah, i had headphones on my desk during the clip so i did not hear the music.. there was another photo of a guy who literally pulled even lower, just enough time to flare once.

I just hope that I can remain calm during an experience like that

[johnboy 0]

1st lesson, don't borrow gear you don't know inside and out. Worn out parts or not finding handles where you think they ought to be can hurt you bad.

2nd, take a lesson from Winston Churchill. Never give up!

I'm not totally convinced on hard housings, but this defenitely lends to the argument for them.

That was freaky. I've not seen that one before.

[wmw999 2,534]

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I'm not totally convinced on hard housings

Get into a hanging harness, and have someone twist you up. You're far more likely to be convinced.
Bill Booth, the inventor of the 3-ring (who has not rested on his laurels, BTW), says this.
And Skymonkeyone, who was at the time an active US Special Forces type (trust me, this means that he was in really, really good shape), said this about his experience trying to cut away a spinner without hard housings.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[pilotdave 0]

I believe the hard cutaway in the video was caused by soft housings on the rig (the main path for the cutaway cables to the risers), not because of a lack of hard inserts in the risers. Just pointing that out to avoid confusion. Housings in the risers are good to have. Hard housings in the rig are CRITICAL.

Dave

[tdog 0]

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This is my first post on this forum, but I've been reading a lot. I am in the middle of training for my AFF1 -

What would you have done in this situation?

If you have never jumped, not attended a FJC, or whatever... Then you might be doing more harm to your training than good by reading and looking at the most outlandish and freak problems in skydiving and calling it "training". Why? You will overamp your brain and lose confidence worried about all the outlandish stuff.

It is true - on your level 1, you will not know everything you need to know to survive. It will be that way on your 1000th jump too. We grow mentally with every jump. However, you are actually, statistically, pretty darn safe as a student. If students were getting hurt, I could not sleep at night being an instructor.


So start with the low hanging fruit first. Then move your way up the tree.

[jplaca 0]

you're right tdog.. I have just been pysching myself out... I guess its the fact that I am at college and cannot watch tv, so I just watch internet videos lol

[GLIDEANGLE 1]

Y'all:

Any thoughts on using toggles following a very low reserve opening vs. leaving them stowed and using rears?

Would leaving the brakes stowed diminish the need for a precise flare?

Would leaving brakes stowed and using rears allow for gaining control of the canopy more quickly?

Is this series of questions evidence that I have completely lost my mind?

No, I have never landed using rears with brakes stowed.

Thanks

Blue Skies

The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

[tdog 0]

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Y'all:

Any thoughts on using toggles following a very low reserve opening vs. leaving them stowed and using rears?

Well, hypothetically, I might have jumped an object or two, from say, 300 feet... I actually entered freefall before deploying the parachute. Granted, never a terminal opening...

But since your question has to do with how to land a canopy at a low opening - I have opened an F111, 7 cell, reserve like parachute at 100 feet and still had time to grab the toggles and do two 90 degree braked turns followed by a soft landing on a road. This canopy specific, but most reseves are docile, even small.

One key - put immediate pressure on your toggles when you pop them so the canopy does not surge to full flight until you are ready to let it fly.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Y'all:

Any thoughts on using toggles following a very low reserve opening vs. leaving them stowed and using rears?

How low?

Somewhat under 200' you still have time to unstow your brakes, make some turns, and get a nice landing.

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Would leaving the brakes stowed diminish the need for a precise flare?

With a contemporary wingloading it will increase the need for precision. With a comfortable .7 lb/square foot accuracy loading you might just PLF in.

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Would leaving brakes stowed and using rears allow for gaining control of the canopy more quickly?

Yes. It takes more time to grab both your brakes and pop them than just pulling on one rear riser.

[johnboy 0]

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I'm not totally convinced on hard housings

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Get into a hanging harness, and have someone twist you up. You're far more likely to be convinced.
Bill Booth, the inventor of the 3-ring (who has not rested on his laurels, BTW), says this.
And Skymonkeyone, who was at the time an active US Special Forces type (trust me, this means that he was in really, really good shape), said this about his experience trying to cut away a spinner without hard housings.

Wendy W.

Just to clarify, are we discussing hard housing in the rig or inserts in the risers themselves? I probably just confused the issue. Hard housings inside the rig I completely agree are critical. Its the inserts in the risers I'm not totally convinced on yet. Haven't there been some issues with the inserts, too? I need to spend some time with the search feature I'm thinking. Sorry if I confused anyone.

Oh, and for the record, Bill Booth rocks....

[Baksteen 84]

You talking BASE, or reserve openings?

Cause maybe trying to land a canopy on rears at what might be the very first jump on that canopy while coming put of a very stressful situation is not the best idea?

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[wmw999 2,534]

What I was talking about was the inserts in the risers. Yes, hard housings in the rig is established.

The issue with housings in the risers is improperly installed ones; plastic ones can kink, and if you don't tack metal ones properly there are issues as well.

I did have the "get in a hanging harness" demo, and was quite convinced.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[pilotdave 0]

As I posted earlier, the problem with the rig in the video was soft housings on the rig. I'd assume he didn't have hard housings on the risers either, but I don't think that contributed to what you see in the video.

Dave

[fcajump 164]

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What I was talking about was the inserts in the risers. Yes, hard housings in the rig is established.

The issue with housings in the risers is improperly installed ones; plastic ones can kink, and if you don't tack metal ones properly there are issues as well.

I did have the "get in a hanging harness" demo, and was quite convinced.

Wendy W.

Do I recall that someone makes risers with hard housings that use an AMP fitting to secure it at the 3-ring grommet??

Anyone use these? If so, any issues?


JW

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[dcgilbert 0]

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Do I recall that someone makes risers with hard housings that use an AMP fitting to secure it at the 3-ring grommet??

Anyone use these? If so, any issues?

I think you're referring to the risers VSE/Infinity makes. They use the same (or very similar) terminal end found on the three ring cable housings at the 'riser end.'

Last boogie I was at, these were also the risers that PD was using on their demo canopies.

D

[billvon 3,068]

>Any thoughts on using toggles following a very low reserve
>opening vs. leaving them stowed and using rears?

If you have time to unstow them, do so. If not, leave them stowed and land with a good PLF. If you are not sure how much time you need - try it. Hold toggles to the stow point, let them back up and try to flare.

[mircan 0]

I`m having a problem with this video.
I am not sure that he was having trouble with cut-away here. If you look at 1:49 (at the google video, ~6000ft), the cutaway handle is pulled and there is about 15 cm visible cutaway cable. Am I wrong to think that at this point the cutaway is already done, he just has canopy/line/riser snagged to his right hand? How can you pull cutaway handle this much (and more later) and not to cut away? Where is his right hand in the first place, i.e. when he goes for the cutaway handle?
Can someone elaborate me on this?

dudeist skydiver #42

[JerryBaumchen 1,434]

Hi dcgilbert,

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Last boogie I was at, these were also the risers that PD was using on their demo canopies.

I was over visiting Kelly back in August and they were just finishing up 50 + sets of risers for PD's demo canopies. Orange as I recall.

JerryBaumchen

[Auryn 0]

Quote

I`m having a problem with this video.
I am not sure that he was having trouble with cut-away here. If you look at 1:49 (at the google video, ~6000ft), the cutaway handle is pulled and there is about 15 cm visible cutaway cable. Am I wrong to think that at this point the cutaway is already done, he just has canopy/line/riser snagged to his right hand? How can you pull cutaway handle this much (and more later) and not to cut away? Where is his right hand in the first place, i.e. when he goes for the cutaway handle? Can someone elaborate me on this?

It looks to me like he was able to only cutaway 1 of the risers by 1:19. you can see at 1:27 that he's trying again and there's still tension on one of the cables which means that riser is still attached to the container.

But, at 1:49 it looks to me like youre right, the second one releases (there's clear movement that looks like tension being released). however, at just before 2:00 you can see the main come into frame. So it would seem that it took until 2:00 for the horseshoe to clear.

Speaking of partial cutaways, I've seen an infinity rig that was having it's main cutaway for a reserve repack bind up permanently. the way this happened was that when we cut it away the hard housing kinda rebounded and got stuck in between the largest ring and the middle ring. We could not force the cutaway even w/ 2 of us pulling on it. I think there may still be pictures of it around somewhere.

so, even if you have all the right stuff, I think it might be possible to still have a riser hang up. But, then again, there wasn't nearly the same tension on the main/rig as when someone is hanging under it.

Ah hell, who knows :) It's all a crapshoot anyway.

[johnboy 0]

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The issue with housings in the risers is improperly installed ones; plastic ones can kink, and if you don't tack metal ones properly there are issues as well.

I did have the "get in a hanging harness" demo, and was quite convinced.

Thanks Wendy. I thought we were on the same page.

I will indeed take the demo first chance I can get. It was the kinking of the plastic housings I'm remembering now that you mention it.

Good thread gang! I'm feeling smarter by the minute!

[johnboy 0]

I got to try out the spin test yesterday. My rigger has a spare set of hard housings and I'm going to his house this week to install them. I can't imagine my Hornet 190 spinning me up that bad, but who knows? Thanks for the counsel Wendy!

[jplaca 0]

here is a similar one - the description of what happened is on the right

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8296772692255777603&q=low+pull+wingsuit&total=5&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=4