happythoughts 0 #126 October 3, 2003 Sure, the truth is important, but what about my feelings? Can't we just talk about our feelings for a while. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #127 October 3, 2003 QuoteClearly! But even after I pointed it out to him, his eyes couldn't see it. OK, but how about you quit picking on me. . . . OK? QuoteThe Rock Man said, "You see what you want to see. You hear what you want to hear." No Quade, my girlfriend told me that years ago. No I don't have a URL for it."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jfields 0 #128 October 3, 2003 I agree with Bill. Facts are facts. They are indisputable and immutable. It is like a crowd of people each looking at the same object through different types of lenses. Some through convex, some concave, others through prisms, others as reflections in mirrors. Everyone will see the object differently, but the object is the same. The specifications of the object itself are fact. What everyone sees differently is perception. Only when people can either see clearly or derive a basis for understanding not formed on distorted sight can they really see the facts. When multiple people get to that true understanding of the facts, it will be the same, because the facts only exist in one form. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #129 October 3, 2003 Quote OK, but how about you quit picking on me. . . . OK? I will if you start using ellipsis correctly! quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #130 October 3, 2003 QuoteI will if you start using ellipsis correctly! This was not right????? QuoteOK, but how about you quit picking on me. . . OK? Quick someone send me a link to 3rd grade. Edit to fix my terrible error that Quade will just not let go . . . Quade does that kind stuff keep you up at night?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #131 October 3, 2003 http://ei.cs.vt.edu/~cs5014/fall.95/courseNotes/WebPages/5.TechnicalCommunication/tc_2_Usage.html#5.5 According to The Associated Press Stylebook and Libel Manual (I'm not kidding, that's really the title of the book), it is treated as a single word consisting of three periods, each separated by a space, with a space before and after. quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #132 October 3, 2003 QuoteWhen multiple people get to that true understanding of the facts, it will be the same, because the facts only exist in one form. Unfortunately, "legal" and "fair" and "justice" are logical, not factual terms. There is no "fact" that says you should spend 10 years in jail for robbery, people just agreed that it is a good idea. Other places cut off your head. A lot of stuff in politics is like that. In the US, there is a lot of talk about human rights. In other countries, free medical care is regarded as a human right. In law and politics, things are more of a group consensus than some immutable truth. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jfields 0 #133 October 3, 2003 QuoteUnfortunately, "legal" and "fair" and "justice" are logical, not factual terms. Correct, but the tangent of the thread I was addressing was dealing with "fact" alone. I wasn't linking it to the legal system at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,070 #134 October 3, 2003 >There is no "fact" that says you should spend 10 years in jail for > robbery, people just agreed that it is a good idea. Other places cut > off your head. Of course. But if you kill someone else with a gun, that action becomes a fact. The _interpretation_ of what should happen to you can vary, but nothing any legal system can do can change the fact that you killed someone. A lawyer who claims that you did not, in fact, kill someone, is wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jib 0 #135 October 3, 2003 QuoteThe Associated Press Stylebook and Libel Manual I would've thought you'd cite Strunk & White's Elements of Style, but noooo, it's a news source. -------------------------------------------------- the depth of his depravity sickens me. -- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #136 October 3, 2003 QuoteExcuse my overstatement. The man is good with money. He has taken his movie and endorsement money and done smart things with it. Uh.. ever hear of financial advisors??? I would venture to say he has a business manager and other people who made good decisions FOR HIM... But a financial genius.. PUHLEZZE. He is an actor... and a body builder.. he made some wise choices in hiring the right people.. but has zero training for any form for political office. But I guess with the right script he can play a politician... but who is going to be writing the script?? Jeanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #137 October 3, 2003 QuoteGet over it. Quit using media-bashing as an attempt to deny, distort and diffuse the truth. The media is quite happy to dig up dirt and bash anyone. They have plenty of faults, but being the dedicated servant of the Democratic Party isn't one of them. The facts don't support your claims. Fact ---> Over 90% of all professional journalists are left of center and vote democrat, including the editors and directors that decide which news to show, how to flavor it, and when to show it. If you would like to defy common sense and believe that the well documented 90% statistic doesn't matter because they all report straight news stories objectively regardless, then go right ahead. But really, because of the 90% disparity, liberal bias in the news used to be the norm back when media outlets were fewer. At one time, it was truly a case of the inmates being in charge of the asylum. But don't despair! You can still get plenty of liberal slant if you choose, just tune into broadcast TV's big three liberals Rather, Brokaw, and Jennings. Or go to any of zillions of liberal websites to get your news -- it's all about choice! Hello FOX: Think of FOX as being ultra-right if you'd like, but FOX's sudden emergence into and dominance of the national television news arena is a direct and positive result of conservatives and moderates wanting to hear both sides of the story. Fact is, FOX has a very balanced mix of hosting and commentary in it's shows. Fact is, they regularly trot out the very best conservative and liberal talking heads out there, and their shows are hosted by conservatives, liberals and moderates alike. I mean, what else could they do to make it more balanced? Fact is, before FOX (and the internet, which can't be controlled by any party), you didn't get that -- you got some of the facts, steeply marinated in liberal slant. And people got tired of it. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #138 October 3, 2003 Sorry Quade, You're misreading the AP Stylebook. "In general, treat an ellipsis as a three-letter word, constructed with three period and two spaces ... " Frankly, AP is not the end-all and be-all of the editorial world. I have my own style for things which takes precedence over AP. I use no spaces whatsoever, because the spaces are completely worthess. Hence, when using ellipsis, I tend to use this...as it is tighter and won't reflow to the next line accidentally at the printer. mike Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jfields 0 #139 October 3, 2003 QuoteFact ---> Over 90% of all professional journalists are left of center and vote democrat, including the editors and directors that decide which news to show, how to flavor it, and when to show it. If you would like to defy common sense and believe that the well documented 90% statistic Proof? If it is so "well-documented", you'll have no trouble backing that up. You say lots of things are "facts", but show no evidence. I say they are merely your opinion, and remain unswayed by the assertions. Do you have anything of substance? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #140 October 3, 2003 Quote Fact ---> Over 90% of all . . . . Please quote ONE credible study. We'll wait.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #141 October 3, 2003 At least 90% of my friends in the mainstream media are, if that counts for anything. mike Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,070 #142 October 3, 2003 >Fact ---> Over 90% of all professional journalists are left of center . . . Got a source for that, or is it just something all right wing extremists know instinctively? Here's a supportable fact: Large media companies support both sides of the fence. From the UK Guardian, here is a list of which party they support financially: News Corporation, owner of Fox, 20th Century Fox, New York Post OVERALL BIAS: Democrat Total: $1,853,832 Democrats: 76% Republicans: 24% SOFT MONEY BIAS: Republican Soft money: $522,518 Democrats: 11% Republicans: 89% Clear Channel, owner of 1,225 radio stations OVERALL BIAS: Republican Total: $503,910 Democrats: 25% Republicans: 75% SOFT MONEY BIAS: Republican Soft money: $144,370 Democrats: 17% Republicans: 83% (does not include $90,000 donation by holding company Eller Media to Republicans) General Electric, owner of NBC network OVERALL BIAS: Republican Total: $1,918,149 Democrats: 43% Republicans: 57% SOFT MONEY BIAS: Republican Soft money: $693,812 Democrats: 39% Republicans: 61% AOL/Time Warner, owner of CNN OVERALL BIAS: Democrat Total: $1,830,461 Democrats: 74% Republicans:26% SOFT MONEY BIAS: Democrat Soft money:$438,069 Democrats:74% Republicans:26% Viacom, owner of CBS network OVERALL BIAS: Democrat Total: $1,935,423 Democrats:90% Republicans:10% SOFT MONEY BIAS: Democrat Soft money:$1,362,500 Democrats:99% Republicans:1% Walt Disney, owner of ABC network OVERALL BIAS: Democrat Total: $1,246,214 Democrats:54% Republicans:46% SOFT MONEY BIAS: Democrat Soft money: $643,400 Democrats:53% Republicans:47% That's 50% democratic, 33% republican and 16% mixed. Pretty far from 90% liberal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #143 October 3, 2003 Quote Frankly, AP is not the end-all and be-all of the editorial world. I was mearly using it as one example and not holding it up as the sole arbiter of proper usage. In fact, I did cite another source and I could cite other sources to support my position as well. Can you? All of the above said, if anyone were to strictly follow the AP Stylebook, very few people would complain about their usage. BTW, this was a -very- trivial point I brought up in relationship to something -very tangental at the -request- of the offender AND it was meant as a joke. You've heard of jokes -- right? Frankly, I'm a bit surprised nobody took the "Libel Manual" part and ran with it. Wimps. quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #144 October 3, 2003 And that's not to say that all Democrats are "liberal" either! Or has the term "liberal" been so misused of late that now the two are considered to be equal in the eyes of the right? Further, if you total up the number of actual media outlets controlled by each company, I think you'll find that Rupert has a hell of a lot more influence than say . . . anyone else.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sssbc99 0 #145 October 3, 2003 QuoteQuoteExcuse my overstatement. The man is good with money. He has taken his movie and endorsement money and done smart things with it. Uh.. ever hear of financial advisors??? ...... but has zero training for any form for political office. But I guess with the right script he can play a politician... but who is going to be writing the script?? Jeanne Zero Training? Most of these politicians are fucking scumbags. What do you suggest is proper training for an office such as this. Lying 101, Cheating 101, Mudslinging 101..... This is not too say that some level of economical, financial, etc.. knokwledge should not be a precursor to office but how do you know arnie is not equipped with such? In other words, I want to hear what you think makes these other canditates so much more qualified. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,070 #146 October 3, 2003 >And that's not to say that all Democrats are "liberal" either! Well, I'm registered independent, and am definitely more liberal than conservative by the dictionary definitons: Liberal: -Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry. -Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded. Conservative: -Favoring traditional views and values; tending to oppose change. -Traditional or restrained in style: a conservative dark suit. -Moderate; cautious: a conservative estimate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #147 October 3, 2003 QuoteAnd that's not to say that all Democrats are "liberal" either! Or has the term "liberal" been so misused of late that now the two are considered to be equal in the eyes of the right? I would say in the minds eye of right wing Republicans that ANYONE who is a Democrat... is a Lefty Commie Pinko...F&$.... as evidenced by so many on this board alone. I wonder how many of those rah rah gung ho type would be conservatives actually SERVED anything but themselves... as in service to country in ANY shape or form what so ever. Like our esteemed President or the Former VP under his daddy. I do respect the elder Bush.. the man at least served this country in time of war, even if he did get his ass flamed so he had to bail. This was the second aircraft he lost. http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq10-1.htm His son did not have such a distinguished career.http://www.awolbush.com/ ALL you Democrat bashing gung ho types.. please read the following link.. and ponder http://www.awolbush.com/whoserved.html Its easy to send people off to die in far off lands when you yourself base those decisions on movies... I can respect men like John McCain and Bob Dole, They served this country and not just themselves like most of the right wing chickenhawks Oh and since you probably will not look... and getting back on thread.... Arnold Schwarzenegger, CA Republican Gubernatorial candidate - went AWOL from his Austrian army base to enter a bodybuilding competition Punditocracy and Preacher-types (See also Media Whores Online) George Will, did not serve Chris Matthews, Mediawhore, did not serve. Bill O'Reilly, did not serve Paul Gigot, did not serve. Bill Bennett, Did not serve Pat Buchanan, did not serve Rush Limbaugh, did not serve (4-F with a 'pilonidal cyst' [see "The Rush Limbaugh Story" by Paul D. Colford, St. Martin's Press, 1993, Chapter 2: Beating the Draft.]) Michael Savage (aka Michael Alan Weiner) - did not serve, too busy chasing herbs and botany degrees in Hawaii and Fiji John Wayne, did not serve Pat Robertson - claimed during 1986 campaign to be a "combat veteran." In reality, was a "Liquor Officer." Bill Kristol, did not serve Kenneth Starr, did not serve Antonin Scalia, did not serve Clarence Thomas, did not serve Ralph Reed, did not serve Charlie Daniels, did not serve Ted Nugent, did not serve Ollie North - Convicted in the Iran-Contra scandal, at least he served. Charlton Heston - served in WWII, but went AWOL when Michael Moore asked him some tough questions. Independents Gov. Jesse Ventura, U.S. Navy SEAL training, did UDT work Senator Jim Jeffords, U.S. Navy 1956-1959 BAHH Jeanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #148 October 3, 2003 Y'all are just happy i'm not letting my opinions run amuck in this thread....I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #149 October 3, 2003 To be fair, I don't believe you have to have served to be a simple media pundit or even military analyst. However, to be the Commander in Chief . . . that's something different altogether (and yeah, I'll admit that Clinton was a poor choice on that topic. I've never stated otherwise). So, I believe it really ought to be a requirement for anyone also in line of succession (including Secratary of Agriculture). See http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_succ.htmlquade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #150 October 3, 2003 Me--4 years, USMC Thankya very much... QuoteCharlton Heston - served in WWII, but went AWOL when Michael Moore asked him some tough questions. that's just simply fucked up. mike Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
