We say this sport is self policing....

[funjumper07 0]

But what about those who do not wish to be policed at all?

I have chosen to make this post anonymously, mainly because I really dislike drama, and I would like to keep any bad feelings away from the physical DZ at all costs.

This afternoon I was seated all the way in the rear of a 182, with two jumpers getting out low. Myself and the 4th were going high. We were on jump run for the hop 'n pop'ers and the jumper in front of me was getting turned around to face the door. His did not realize it, but he caught his rig on part of the aircraft that sticks out a couple inches. I watched it as it happened, as I was a good 6 inches away from his rig. The main flap got caught, somewhat twisted up, and the closing pin was extracted about half way out. I happen to own literally the exact same rig, and know it like the back of my hand, so as he was speaking to the pilot I seated his pin and closed the flap. He turned back to look at me and just as I opened my mouth to tell him what had happened he snapped at me telling me to never ever ever ever ever ever touch his rig again. I tried to explain but was met with sheer hostility so I said okay, and leaned back again, enjoying my now spacious ride to altitude.

When said jumper got down he apparently went around the entire DZ, including the DZO as well as a group of students telling everyone how I had been fucking with his rig in the plane, which he was met with very very little sympathy from what I was told by others.

Was I completely out of line here??? I personally ask for a gear check before I board the plane every single jump, as well as a pin/flap check on jump run. If someone spots something amiss with my rig that I obviously cannot see, I would sure as hell hope they would do something about it and bring it to my attention.

With all this talk about self-policing, and taking care of others... etc... is this a common attitude with some jumpers? Opinions?

Let's just keep it fun!

[punkd 0]

good job spotting the gear getting caught, but I always ask before I touch anyones gear. That could of saved the hostility if you just told him what had happened first.

[CReWGEEK 1]

I still get pin checks on every jump,(fun, tandem,instructor jumps)). In the last few years I've seen this practice disapearing at most dz's I have been at. I have even heard people say if anyone touches my gear I will kill them. I guess we have to go full circle again ( wreak some planes or people) before it becomes the thing to do again.

[funjumper07 0]

Generally I do to with the exception of coach jumps with students.

In the instance I chose to correct the gear because we were less than a 1/4 mile out on jump run and he was speaking to the pilot before opening the door. In hindsight I wish I would have said something to avoid all of this, and in the future I will (that's what this sport is all about; learning, right?). I was just surprised by the hostility I encountered trying to help a fellow jumper with an imminent safety concern.

Let's just keep it fun!

[hackish 8]

I would think the correct procedure would have been to bring it to the guy's attention first. It's happened to me before when the worn out velcro risers on a rig kept opening up on their own accord. I appreciate it if people are paying attention to things like this. Personally I would think that your safety very much your business as a lost pin at the door could have removed the aircraft's tail or side etc.

-Michael

[billvon 2,991]

It bothers me when people adjust my rig without telling me for a few reasons:

1) I have a sort of odd rig (a Reflex) and many people don't know how to check it. I've had people try to pry the PC off the reserve to 'check the pin.'

2) The person adjusting it may be incompetent; their 'adjustment' may give me a PC in tow.

3) I prefer my main pin set up a certain way, and it would bother me if someone changed that.

4) If I didn't know they were doing it, and I decided to move to check the spot just as they were re-seating my main pin, I could wind up with an open container right next to the door, which is a very bad thing.

That being said, if I was in the plane and someone grabbed me and said "Hang on! Your pin's exposed! Let me fix it" then I'd be OK with him fixing it. If it was someone I knew and trusted, I'd be OK with him just plain grabbing me and doing it.

I would recommend that in the future you exercise the same sort of vigilance, just tell the jumper what you're going to do before you do it.

[Fledgling 0]

I think the key is to simply bring it to the persons attention and leave it up to them. A lot of people start to get nervous when they feel people fiddling with their gear with out an explanation. Maybe in the future you will find people that are comfortable with that but I believe they will be few and far between.
However it is great that you were so aware of what was going on and think that more jumpers need to start looking after each other like this.

[2shay 0]

Never touch someone's rig without asking firstly, and secondly he may just be a dick and that is why he told everyone that you were fooling with his rig

don't try your bullshit with me!!!

[saly 0]

Confucius says

He who jump without pincheck
Jumps to conclusion.

But ask first.

---------------------------------------------
If you don't have wings you will never fly

[airdvr 210]

I'm not sure what that has to do with self-policing.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[MagicGuy 0]

I don't think you were wrong. I have done similar things that you did. I've also asked before I fixed something, and said something while I was fixing it just to let them know what I was doing. While of course it's great to ask before touching the gear, sometimes when it's right before they leave or in your case, while on jumprun, you don't have time to ask them first.

I'd feel better knowing that even though they got pissed, you could've potentially prevented something bad from happening. Sucks that he doesn't appreciate it, but oh well.. he's probably just a dick. Great job on catching it.. and lots of kudos to you for looking out for your friends.

[NWFlyer 2]

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I think the key is to simply bring it to the persons attention and leave it up to them

In the situation like that, if he ignores me, I don't want him opening the door with me on the plane, though. A pilot chute out in the plane with an open door is more than just his problem - it's mine, too. So while I don't think I'd go straight to fixing the problem, I'd certainly make it crystal clear that it needed to be fixed before that door opened.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[davelepka 4]

I'm also a big fan of 'never touch my rig'.

However, if the door is open, or about to be opened, that rule goes right out the window (no pun intended).

The jumper in your example lost his right to enforce the 'don't touch my rig' rule by not being able to manage his gear himself either with the door open, or about to be opened.

If time permits, always ask before touching a rig. If time does not permit, do what you need to ensure your safety, and the safety of the other jumpers and AC first, explain your reasons later.

[peregrinerose 0]

I'm with most of the others. Keep your hands off my rig unless you talk to me first, if it's a true emergency (my pilot chute fell out and the door is open), or I ask you to do a pin check or something, or you know me very well.

In this case, it would have taken you 2 seconds to lean forward, tell him his pin is almost out before just taking it on yourself to fix it. Be loud, make sure the door stays closed, and let him know exactly what is happening before touching it.

What if he moved just as you were going to adjust the pin and you ended up knocking it out the remainder of the way accidentally, just as the door was opening? That would have been all kinds of ugly.

Keep doing what you're doing in making sure you're watching everyone else's gear, just handle it a little better next time. I've seen students point out misrouted chest straps on D licensed skydivers... anyone can save a life in the plane.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[billvon 2,991]

> However, if the door is open, or about to be opened, that rule goes right out the window . . .

I strongly disagree here! If there is a gear problem, the number one priority is to get the door closed. If you see someone's reserve PC poking out, or his pin pulled almost all the way out, do NOT fuss with it! Leave it alone, get the door closed - and THEN fix the problem with the rig. Messing with it could turn a minor problem into a PC out the door.

(One reason I don't like planes with no doors.)

[popsjumper 2]

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Generally I do to with the exception of coach jumps with students.

I would highly recommend that you also tell students what you are ging to do before you do it. Explain it to them as you do it. Emphasize the point that he/she should ask only qualified people to check his/her gear. Students must learn that there are bozos out there who only think they know what they are doing.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[riggerrob 643]

As I see it, your only fault was in not TELLING him before you touched his gear.

Next time you encounter that scenario, try to politely tell him that you are going to adjust his pin. If he lips you off again, don't waste any time arguing with him.
Instead, go over his head - in the chain of command - and tell the pilot that there is a parachute loose in the cabin.

[pre7117 0]

I really have no problem with anyone fixing a potential problem but it really depends on who it is. If I dont know them, I dont want them touching my stuff. I would rather have them tell me what they see.

HELLFISH 429
POPS 11113

[dbattman 0]

I don't think so at all. A loose pin could easily have downed that plane. Did you tell him what happened on the ground? If not, be sure you explain it next time you see him. A lack of a little verbal commo was the problem here, not your vigilance.

[Trae 1]

in reply to"etc... is this a common attitude with some jumpers? Opinions? "
..................................................

even though your intentions were honorable ....Its rude to touch without asking.

Him telling others about your behaviour is an example of self -policing. only its you being policed

Boundaries exist and are different perhaps for different people /different experience levels. Touch an experienced persons gear without asking nicely first and its you who looks like the problem.

nice pick up on the pin/flap
I believe you would've been within your rights if the gear situation was creating an immediate danger to yourself or others. otherwise taking the time to ask is just being polite .

[dannydan 5]

I agree with everyone here!!! This quote is the most warranted

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In the situation like that, if he ignores me, I don't want him opening the door with me on the plane, though. A pilot chute out in the plane with an open door is more than just his problem - it's mine, too.

I relize that in life that death can happen in a "twinkling of the eye".... and that there may not be enuf time to express something to someone else tho... BUT no matter what something needs to be said or done to prevent a catastrophe!!

The pilot of the plane could/should also be alerted so that the jump~run can be postponed for a brief! In the the end the pilot is the boss.

[SivaGanesha 2]

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His did not realize it, but he caught his rig on part of the aircraft that sticks out a couple inches...

What is the "part of the aircraft that sticks out"? Is this something that can be altered...it sounds a little dangerous and at the very least it sounds like something your DZ needs to be more aware of. Was this before the door was open or after? Was it part of the door?

It has been awhile since I've jumped from a 182...my more recent jumps have been from a PAC 750 or Caravan...but I don't remember any parts of the 182 sticking out that would be likely to catch the flap and move the pin. Perhaps the DZ aircraft can and should be altered a bit to remove this problem.

"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

[pilotdave 0]

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but I don't remember any parts of the 182 sticking out that would be likely to catch the flap and move the pin. Perhaps the DZ aircraft can and should be altered a bit to remove this problem.

Every 182 is different... but yeah, they should try to minimize anything a jumper might snag on. I've jumped Deland's 182... gorgeous plane, but the rear seat brackets are still installed (so the seat can be put in when the plane is used for travelling)... great big snag points. It's really up to the jumpers to be really really careful in any cramped space when moving around.

Dave

[pinkfairy 0]

Some people overreact and get angry and flame you when they are scared.

It might have been a factor here.

Have you talked to the guy and explained what you did and why?

There may be better ways to handle this, as others have pointed out, but I wouldn't want to go out of the plane with my pin out, and I'm sure he wouldn't either.

Relax, you can die if you mess up, but it will probably not be by bullet.

I'm a BIG, TOUGH BIGWAY FORMATION SKYDIVER! What are you?

[hukturn 0]

Do not ever touch someones rig without request. I am one of those people. I check my own pin, I check my own gear. There are only a few select people I trust enough to handle my gear. In 16 years of skydiving, I have only even used 5 riggers. What if he wantd the pin set half way for a reason. You may be familiar with the rig but you may nto be familiar with the jumpers preferences or individual rig nuances. If you think you see something wrong, say something...don't just reach.