storm1977 0 #51 September 11, 2003 Well Kev... would you expect they would announce a message like that. It would be a political disaster in our ties to SA if we did. This is a silent message and I think the Saudi's get it!!!! ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikkey 0 #52 September 11, 2003 QuoteBut, support for the war was garnered through deception and propaganda about non-existent threats. That's my problem with Bush. Amen - you hit the nail...--------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #53 September 11, 2003 Actually I think it does make it perfectly justifiable. As did dropping a nuke on Japan to get Uncle Joe to back off a bit. It is a duel purpose mission and I can't name many that will miss SH. Let's remember "We will make NO distiction between terrorist and the countries that Habour them" That doesn't mean we will treat every country the same, there has to be different stratigies for different nations. Chris ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #54 September 11, 2003 I don't believe it, because I am not a consiracy type of guy, but the same could be said for WWII. The administration have had previous knowledge of Perl Harbor... The US was looking to get into the war. We could have argued it was none of our business. Chris ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #55 September 11, 2003 QuoteWell Kev... would you expect they would announce a message like that. It would be a political disaster in our ties to SA if we did. This is a silent message and I think the Saudi's get it!!!! So you think it is better to preserve political ties with who is the true enemy by attacking their neighbors to send them a message? I don't. And I don't feel it's a good justification for lying to not only the Saudis, and the American public, but to congress as well (isn't that why Clinton was impeached). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #56 September 11, 2003 This is something I posted a while ago, and I stand by it. Just a refresher an where I stand. --------------------------------------------------- Does anyone remember Septermber 11, 2001??? I DO! I remember sitting in NY’s LGA airport with my girlfriend waiting to board a flight at 8:45AM. I remember hearing there was a delay because of a crash… I then remember the airport turning off all there TV monitors in the terminal, but by chance a gentleman behind me had a portable TV, and we watched, with disbelief.. Next I remember an announcement. In a not so calm voice we were told to evacuate immediately, leave there what we brought, and evacuate. I thought to myself, yeah right, I am going to leave my stuff here. Then I saw Pilots and stewardess very quickly leaving the terminal. Someone yelled, ”They hit the Pentagon!!!” “What the Fuck is going on”, I questioned. So my girlfriend and I began to walk. It immediately came to mind that my girlfriends brother was in Manhattan at work. Sometime he has meetings downtown, maybe today, maybe not. We called and called, but what we didn’t know was that the Verizon building was right next ground Zero, and all communications were knocked out. I was in Queens, 2.5 miles from the world trade center. There are unforgettable things from that day, that anyone in the area will never forget. The heat, the smell, all the cabs on the side of the road going no where. I remember asking several taxis for rides. Nearly 60% of cabbies in NY are Muslims, and they were not driving “whitie” anywhere. They were afraid of attacks against them I guess, and I don’t blame them, I know I was pretty angry that day. We walked and walked till finally we found a cab that would drive us to the nearest relative. We ended up on the south end of Queens looking over the water right to Ground Zero. I took pictures of the scene from there. I remember feeling comforted when I looked up and saw 2 fighter jets circling overhead, I had forgot we had those kinds of toys. We finally got in touch with my girls brother, he was walking out of NYC through a tunnel. A stanger offered him a ride and he took it. When was the last time that happened in NY, that perfect strangers would help you out? We sat at Sarah’s aunt hous for hours, watching tv and eating pizza. All the trains were shut down, and the highways a nightmare. I remember thinking, nothing will ever be the same… but I knew we would forget. The president gave a speech and said, no matter where, no matter when we are going after terrorist and those that harbor them. I felt good, no, I felt great. I Found it hard to believe that someone attacked our Capitol, and the retaliation wasn’t immediate. I said, “People are going to die for this. No longer can someone fuck with the US and get away with it”. Now, in light of all that is going on right now in the world people in this country have forgotten what is important to us. Celebrities are speaking out, and demonstrations are taking place all over the country. To that I say, Why? Do these Celeb’s think they have more info than the president? Do they know more, or is their judgment on the subject better than our government? We are at war with whom ever threatens us credibly! I just want to remind everyone that in a 2 hour period on 9/11/01 3000 Americans died. Not American troops, American civilians. Some say innocent people will die in Iraq. It is true, they will. But I would rather see 100,000 dead Iraq’s than another 3000 Americans. We gave Sadaam the chance, we even asked the world for help. He had the chance, actually he has had 18 chances over 12 years, and only he could have stopped this aggression. We said declare all by Dec 8, 2002, and the WORLD agreed. But he didn’t do it, and now he must pay. I know people question the connection between SH and terrorism. That UBL and SH do not like each other. By there is an old saying which reads; “My enemy’s, enemy’s are my friends.” Sadaam is a smart man, and he has been fooling a lot of people for a while. I for one an not willing to let this go on. Just my 2 cents. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #57 September 11, 2003 No, I think we are sending them the right message, and untill we have the means to live without them, we don't invade. We just give them the cold shoulder and watch them.... There will be a time in the next 10yrs or so where our connections to them are broken unless they change. However, to sever that tie right now would devistate the US economy... What would $4/ gallon of gas do to the US economy???? A LOT ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikkey 0 #58 September 11, 2003 Quote3000 Americans died. Not American troops, American civilians. A minor point - AFAIK people from 60 different countries were killed on 9/11. Not in big numbers, but don't forget. Quote Some say innocent people will die in Iraq. It is true, they will. But I would rather see 100,000 dead Iraq’s than another 3000 Americans The problem is do you want to prevent it happening again? Killing lots of innocent people might just trigger the opposite - a major recruiting drive for terrorists.--------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chachi 0 #59 September 11, 2003 Wait to see what you upcoming deficit is going to do to your economy. USA is about to have the largest deficit ever. $585 Billion I believe. Compare that to the $400 or so surplus you had under your last administration. ~Chachi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #60 September 11, 2003 QuoteLet's remember "We will make NO distiction between terrorist and the countries that Habour them" That doesn't mean we will treat every country the same, there has to be different stratigies for different nations. Those two sentences do not go together. If you make no distinction, than you should treat them equally. When you don't treat them equally, than you are making a distinction. Kev, I agree with you. I also think Canada should have been with the US during Iraq to preserve ties with our largest trading partner. I just don't understand how people can not be outraged that they ahve been lied to. One president lies about a friggin blowjob and everybody is up in arms. Another government lies about the reasons for invading a country and nobody does anything? This has nothing to do with wether I like Clinton or Bush. Personally I am more outraged about the false pretences for war than a lie about a blowjob. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #61 September 11, 2003 I am not afraid of the deficit. The economy is growing... The buble burst, and it is getting better. All I have to say is CUT STUPID FUNDING Why did we spend $10 million on a study of road kill??? Why do we pay for Illeagals medical problems etc... Don't worry about the deficit... it will be ok :-) ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #62 September 11, 2003 QuoteDon't worry about the deficit... it will be ok :-) See, if all you guys bury your head like an ostrich and pretend oyu do not have a massive deficit. It will just go away. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #63 September 11, 2003 I am not loosing sleep my friend. It is the cost of war, and the cost of freedom. When the idiots of the world (IMO) wake up and realize most of the government spending is RETARDED, they too will vote for different officails in office. You can't blame it all on the Pres. Clinton... Great speaker... bad financial planner. (again My opinion) If you have a great deal of extr amoney laying around... Don't spend it. Save it for a rainy day. To many government supported social programs out there. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivexxl 0 #64 September 11, 2003 Regardless of all... many lives were lost and the course of history was changed forever. Any unnecessary loss of life is tragic. I looked at those buildings out of my bedroom window my entire youth, and their absence from thy skyline is a vivid reminder. Blog Clicky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #65 September 11, 2003 Amen! _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #66 September 11, 2003 Christopher, I do agree with you on most part. The problem is that it seems that everyone is bitching now on the grounds americans are of less value, culturaly speaking. Well, let me remind you about facts. The fact is that Muslims were involved in hijacking planes, and crashing them into buildings. Killing innocents. At this point I could care less of the details on how they did it. They planned it for a long time and these towel heads (Which are muslims willing to blow themselves up for whatever reason), were persistent in doing so. There is actually nothing they have requested peacfully, or as a matter of fact, the only thing they are asking is for the whole world to become like them, slavery for women, only god Allah, and back to prehistoric times. It seems that Mikkey has favorably forgotten, that yes, US has a long history in this century for fighting under the cause of freedom, lets not forget no human is infallible to errors or mistakes. If US had not been attacked by Japanese, The EU would be drawn as one country named GERMANY, with the exceptions of Spain, and Portugal, and maybe switzerland. Italy, of course would have also maintained independence. So what is different today? Well the agressor is not organized, but can be effective. Still to this time, no one in this post who is against the war over Irak and Afghanistan has even offered an alternative, despite being asked to do so. It is all the same rethoric about the americans being uncivilized and lacking of culture and knowledge. Or should we say that Europe have greatly contributed to mankind in this century? well, I think the greatest achievement tactically speaking is 2 world wars, and a mess over the middle east over centuries of occupation, or should we forget this fact as well? Us is not and will not be perfect ever, yet even with big bad ass blunders committed, it has always demonstrated the will of its people to ammend any wrong doing even if it is decades ago. I can not attest the same fact from any other country in the world to have done the same thing, fighting a war and then helping rebuild that nation (Afghanistan, Iraq and the Plan Marshall). Personally this is not an issue of who is governing, it is an issue of how different the world is, and this is no propaganda at all, the fact remains the same, towel heads in planes crashing them down. My 2 cts"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #67 September 11, 2003 Quote You're en eehvl Amreekhan Michele! That is why you're not allowed to have such an opinion. Hope that clairifies things. If it wasn't enough, there's plenty more. Ah, I see. It's all clear now. Besides. My world revolves all around me. ME, ME, ME!! I am, after all, a white american who was raised in the San Fernando Valley, publicly schooled, and had absolutely no exposure to other cultures, or, well, the complexities of the world....either here in the local 'hoods or abroad.... I mean, yeah, like, fer shure, man, gag me. I live in, like, the Valley, you know? I mean, like, Ventura Blvd and all that. Really! Fer shure! An I live in a really, like, huge house, with, you know, like a big white fence, and my cool dog named Dude. And, like, you know, I drive the coolest car. And if, like, Faaaaaaaaaaahther doesn't, really, like buy me everything I want, I mean, like, (giggle) I just cry or whatever. Then Faaaaaaaahther gives me a credit card, and I can buy all the latest fashions at, like, the mall or something. Like, I mean, like, it's about me. (there isn't a rolling eyes icon, so substitute that in, alrighty??) Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jfields 0 #68 September 11, 2003 Bitchin' sarcasm! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhino 0 #69 September 11, 2003 QuoteI was actually media bashing YEAGH!!! MEDIA SUCKS!! MEDIA SUCKS!! BASH!! BASH!!! My alternative?!?!?!? NO MEDIA.... How about... Goodnews.com That is where we get news from.. lol Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyDekker 1,465 #70 September 11, 2003 Quotetowel heads you just don't get it do you? QuoteThe EU would be drawn as one country named GERMANY, with the exceptions of Spain, and Portugal, and maybe switzerland. Italy, of course would have also maintained independence. You have got to be kidding me. Look at the regimes in place in Italy and Spain during WWII and then come back and claim again that they would be "independent". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhino 0 #71 September 11, 2003 QuoteI have no college degree I have a PHD!!!!! Plain Highschool Diploma PHD.. LOL Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhino 0 #72 September 11, 2003 QuoteSo, America invaded Iraq to teach SA a lesson. Well that makes it perfectly justifiable. WMD's or not.. HE committed genocide against his own people.. It needed to happen.. Simple.. North Korea is next.. Their defense spending increases 17% a year.. Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhino 0 #73 September 11, 2003 QuoteNo, I think we are sending them the right message Yep.. Congress just gave our boys 86 billion more for the cause.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhillyKev 0 #74 September 11, 2003 Selected Countries Military Budget ($Billions) United States 399.1 Russia* 65.0 China* 47.0 Japan 42.6 United Kingdom 38.4 France 29.5 Germany 24.9 Saudi Arabia 21.3 Italy 19.4 India 15.6 South Korea 14.1 Brazil* 10.7 Taiwan* 10.7 Israel 10.6 Spain 8.4 Australia 7.6 Canada 7.6 Netherlands 6.6 Turkey 5.8 Mexico 5.9 Kuwait* 3.9 Ukraine 5.0 Iran* 4.8 Singapore 4.8 Sweden 4.5 Egypt* 4.4 Norway 3.8 Greece 3.5 Poland 3.5 Argentina* 3.3 United Arab Emirates* 3.1 Colombia* 2.9 Belgium 2.7 Pakistan* 2.6 Denmark 2.4 Vietnam 2.4 North Korea* 2.1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhino 0 #75 September 11, 2003 QuoteIf you have a great deal of extr amoney laying around... Don't spend it. Save it for a rainy day. That would be ideal.. But it will never happen.. Let me tell you why.. Government is corporate america. We have a budget this year, if we don't spend it all we won't get it next year and we can't buy toys.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next Page 3 of 8 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
rhino 0 #69 September 11, 2003 QuoteI was actually media bashing YEAGH!!! MEDIA SUCKS!! MEDIA SUCKS!! BASH!! BASH!!! My alternative?!?!?!? NO MEDIA.... How about... Goodnews.com That is where we get news from.. lol Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #70 September 11, 2003 Quotetowel heads you just don't get it do you? QuoteThe EU would be drawn as one country named GERMANY, with the exceptions of Spain, and Portugal, and maybe switzerland. Italy, of course would have also maintained independence. You have got to be kidding me. Look at the regimes in place in Italy and Spain during WWII and then come back and claim again that they would be "independent". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #71 September 11, 2003 QuoteI have no college degree I have a PHD!!!!! Plain Highschool Diploma PHD.. LOL Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #72 September 11, 2003 QuoteSo, America invaded Iraq to teach SA a lesson. Well that makes it perfectly justifiable. WMD's or not.. HE committed genocide against his own people.. It needed to happen.. Simple.. North Korea is next.. Their defense spending increases 17% a year.. Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #73 September 11, 2003 QuoteNo, I think we are sending them the right message Yep.. Congress just gave our boys 86 billion more for the cause.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #74 September 11, 2003 Selected Countries Military Budget ($Billions) United States 399.1 Russia* 65.0 China* 47.0 Japan 42.6 United Kingdom 38.4 France 29.5 Germany 24.9 Saudi Arabia 21.3 Italy 19.4 India 15.6 South Korea 14.1 Brazil* 10.7 Taiwan* 10.7 Israel 10.6 Spain 8.4 Australia 7.6 Canada 7.6 Netherlands 6.6 Turkey 5.8 Mexico 5.9 Kuwait* 3.9 Ukraine 5.0 Iran* 4.8 Singapore 4.8 Sweden 4.5 Egypt* 4.4 Norway 3.8 Greece 3.5 Poland 3.5 Argentina* 3.3 United Arab Emirates* 3.1 Colombia* 2.9 Belgium 2.7 Pakistan* 2.6 Denmark 2.4 Vietnam 2.4 North Korea* 2.1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #75 September 11, 2003 QuoteIf you have a great deal of extr amoney laying around... Don't spend it. Save it for a rainy day. That would be ideal.. But it will never happen.. Let me tell you why.. Government is corporate america. We have a budget this year, if we don't spend it all we won't get it next year and we can't buy toys.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
