What You Think You Know About Sept. 11 … but don't.

[wildblue 7]

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I've coded my own little plug in for dz.com. From now on any response from juanesky to my posts is replaced with:

Can I get a copy of that?
I have seen message boards with an 'ignore' list kill-file kind of thingy... came in really handy!

it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality

[juanesky 0]

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Nice try, but hey, gotta go trainning for towel head season....Nice talking to u...

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That one sentence really says it all about you.

Really? then why are you omiting my explanation of towel head as any imbecile fundamentalist who will by all means blow himself up in the name of his god part killing innocents. Pretty convenient, for you to twist things around right?

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You never did answer my question though. What would have happened if Mussolini and Franco would not have listened to Hitler?
But then again, I would expect a decendant from a Hitler sympathetic family to claim that Spain and Italy stayed sovereign. I come from a family were direct family members fought against the nazis in various different theatres around the world, hence my view is a little different.

Nice talking to you

I think that this needs to be explained once again, just like mikkey, makes assumptions that are not historically correct. The axis, which the allies in 1939 declare war to consisted of Germany, Italy, and Japan. Got it? Do you need a map for this?, It was Hitler that helped Mussolini remain in power for as long as he did.

He helped Franco, Prior and during Spanish Civil war that started in April 1936. A civil war means a COUNTRY THAT IS FIGHTING ITSELF. Families are divided, and so was mine. Franco was facist as was Hitler& Mussolini, a great uncle, who died way before I was even born, was an aviator for his forces.

You jump immediately to a conclussion that since this great uncle was my family, all of it is "Nazi sympathetic", including me?

My Grandfather and, Grandmother, were republican, (read democratic), and had to pay a high price to fight the ideals he tried to defend.

I would definitely be interested in getting your sources that Spain was occupied by Nazis, never seen a WW2 movie nor book that mention Spain as part of the invaded countries....

It never happened. End of story.

Now, you as most liberals here, who are against the war in Iraq, have forgotten what history has taught,
Bitch and cry foul ad-hominis this and slandering and so on, yet I must keep my mouth shut when none of you offer a viable alternative, and if you do it has to be something pro-pot, or to those effects, or insulting and nagging. You have been asked many times, no answer whatsoever.

An answer would not be "go after Al-qaeda" for is the same as saying go kill the enemies, and that is precisely what we are currently doing, a shame that innocencts die, and we need to get to this point, what do you think is going to happen now with the Iran deadline sought and the issue about NK? One by one things are being dealt, so if you are not part of the solution, then don't be an obstacle.

Nice talking 2 u 2.
As for Pds, again, go vote on the elections. Enjoy your liberties.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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I would definitely be interested in getting your sources that Spain was occupied by Nazis,

I never said Spain was occupied.

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Now, you as most liberals here, who are against the war in Iraq, have forgotten what history has taught

As I have stated before, I have never voted liberal in elections in two different countries on two different continents.. And I do not know what this discussion has to do with Iraq and my views on that. So you are wrong on two accounts.

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You have been asked many times, no answer whatsoever.

You have never asked me anything specific. I have asked you something specific, twice now. After all your bantering you have still not answered that question. In your post you have touched on something like 6 different subjects, going off on each one of them, yet you still ahve not been able to answer one simple quesitons, which has been stated twice.

In stead of justifying your use of the term towel head (which is offensive whicever you decide to define it. I could try and give a different definition for the term nigger, but the term itself would still be offensive. Shame you cannot understand that), in stead of of making false assumptions about me, just try and answer a really simple question, I'll ask it for the third time:

What do you think would have happened if Mussolini and Franco had told Hitler to go fuck himself?

[juanesky 0]

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I would definitely be interested in getting your sources that Spain was occupied by Nazis,

They were independent. Do yo need more explanation?

I never said Spain was occupied.

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Now, you as most liberals here, who are against the war in Iraq, have forgotten what history has taught

As I have stated before, I have never voted liberal in elections in two different countries on two different continents.. And I do not know what this discussion has to do with Iraq and my views on that. So you are wrong on two accounts.

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You have been asked many times, no answer whatsoever.

You have never asked me anything specific.[Blue]yes, if you are against the US or the War then propose a different alternative.

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I have asked you something specific, twice now. After all your bantering you have still not answered that question. In your post you have touched on something like 6 different subjects, going off on each one of them, yet you still ahve not been able to answer one simple quesitons, which has been stated twice.

What do you think would have happened if Mussolini and Franco had told Hitler to go fuck himself?

And what part to stic with the facts don't you agree, not the what ifs, maybe perhaps. Keep the facts, and don't twist actual history. DO YOU UNDERSTAND these words, or you need them French?

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In stead of justifying your use of the term towel head (which is offensive whicever you decide to define it. I could try and give a different definition for the term nigger, but the term itself would still be offensive. Shame you cannot understand that), in stead of of making false assumptions about me,

And what did you just do a few posts back? did you not mention I was a Nazi Sympathizer?, I am assuming then correctly that you do not understand any explanation given. The fact remains Spain was NEVER occupied and maintained is sovereignty, now twist whatever you want, still you are getting far from the facts, and for this I did mention many times, that they maintained their independence and sovereingty. You on the other hand refuse to accept this fact especulatig the what ifs and so and so, please is a waste of time giving facts, and have them twisted around
Nice talking to you....

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[SkyDekker 1,465]

unbelievable,

I have asked a simple question three times and you just cannot answer it. I understand it is a "what if" question, but it goes to the core of the issue.

No, I do not need it in French since I do not speak that language, but Dutch might be nice.

I will answer your question directly, maybe that will give you a clue as to what answering a question is. I am not necessarily against the War in Iraq. I am against the fact that the US government was not honest in their reasonings, justifications and objectives for this war. My solution, I would like them to be honest in their actions and provide the true reasons for their actions publicly.

Now, can you answer my simple question?

[juanesky 0]

Pal, you are obviously talking another language.

The whole debate was based in your assumption that Spain was not independent according to your point of view. I told you many posts ago that I will not ponder on speculations, just the facts.

And this all was brought because you see the US as a bully, and that is fine as well, all I am trying is for people not to forget that has been not for the US, most of Europe would be speaking German today, It's a fact, as well as the many mistakes and blunders this nation has made present, past and future, yet no other country will go to war and after it will help rebuild it.

Those are too, facts. The solution you propose is not a viable one, I am not asking to come clean, I am asking what do we do to stop these towel heads from blowing innocents up? It won;t do nothing if everything is stop and everyone comes clean, I see no solution there. And as derogatory you may find it, let me also let you know that in most South american countries there is not an issue calling people by their color of their skin, not their weight, is not an offense whatsoever. SO if you want to talk about cultures, then you need to broaden your horizons....

Nice talking to you...

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[PhillyKev 0]

must not feed troll...too easy when door wide open...stepping away from computer

[jfields 0]

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I am asking what do we do to stop these towel heads from blowing innocents up?

You can start by not calling them towel heads.

After that, you can try learning some more about the issues before you begin spouting off incoherent babblings that only serve to insult others and show your incomplete comprehension.

When you've mastered those, we'll work our way down the list.

[PhillyKev 0]

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You can start by not calling them towel heads.

Stop being culturally insensitive. Didn't you know it's proper to use derogatory comments about people if you're from S. America?

Damnit, knew I couldn't help myself.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

If my question is speculation than the following is speculation as well:

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has been not for the US, most of Europe would be speaking German today, It's a fact

really, you know for a fact what would have happened if the US would not have joined WWII? In all likelihood, you are right, but you cannot claim it as fact, since you just don't know. Just once again shows your ignorance to boldy claim that as fact.

So, since you have no problem speculating on what would have happened if the US would not have joined that war, why would you not answer my speculative question? Can't have it both ways.

So, for the fourth time, my easy question is:

What do you think would have happened if Franco and Mussolini had told Hitler to go fuck himself?

[pds 0]

you know you are not going to get a rational answer to you questions, so give it up.

it appears that the way to get off the troll's to do list is to shy away from subjective, rational and informed discussion and simply sink said troll's ship of fools with objective observations on said troll's methods of argument.

i would say that 'specious' is far too generous. 'preposterous' maybe?

sorry, gotta go get ready for dumbshit season....... cya.

namaste, motherfucker.

[kallend 2,063]

www.unobserver.com/layout5.php?id=1036&blz=1

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[quade 4]

Have you read Chapter 16 of Franken's book yet?

If even 0.1 is true (and I have a feeling that a lot more than 0.1 is), then . . . I'm in awe that the mass media hasn't really run with it yet and the entire Administration has a LOT of explaining to do.

That is, assuming there really is a liberal left media and it's not actually controlled by the extreme GWB loyalists.

On the other hand, did anybody happen to see the TLC special on September 11 about the President's day?

It's really wierd, because some of the stuff makes sense in context of what GWB and Franken BOTH have said.

Weird.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[FliegendeWolf 0]

Is that the part about "Operation Ignore?" I hope to hell that isn't true.

A One that Isn't Cold is Scarcely a One at All

[juanesky 0]

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If my question is speculation than the following is speculation as well:

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has been not for the US, most of Europe would be speaking German today, It's a fact

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really, you know for a fact what would have happened if the US would not have joined WWII? In all likelihood, you are right, but you cannot claim it as fact, since you just don't know. Just once again shows your ignorance to boldy claim that as fact.

Well, again you trying to hide the historical facts. The axis controlled almost all Europe, North Africa, and South east Asia. Do I need to explain or give you a history lesson, or are you going to refute them because just want to be blind to these facts. US was the only one aiding Britain, with supplies in their war effort, the only power still standing literally to the Axis (not counting the french resistance or resistance anywhere). You think that if the Germans were not attacked in the west they would have been able to maintain Europe dominance, which they did have in fact? Wow, tell you need to change books pal. But it is interesting that even though you are more likely to agree to these facts you choose to treat them as speculations..

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So, since you have no problem speculating on what would have happened if the US would not have joined that war, why would you not answer my speculative question? Can't have it both ways.

I can't because Spain was never occupied by Germany as was the rest of Europe. Maybe it will be easier if I could help you pay for history lessons, you want some tapes, dvd's?

The situation in 1941 was so desperate for the dominance of the world, that it only created a problem to the axis to provoke US ire and might. Should I keep on details by battle orders, places for you to get a reality fact based history class?


The sad part is that it actually was happening, (which you are blatantly ignoring, and claimind them as speculation on my part) European dominance by the axis, as well as the south eastern Asia. So tell me maybe you think I do smoke dope and am just making these things up am I?

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So, for the fourth time, my easy question is:

What do you think would have happened if Franco and Mussolini had told Hitler to go fuck himself?

For the N time, it never happened, and if it did, they most likely would have gone into war.

Which never made any sense to me either for Franco to do that. That is a stupid questiong. It's like asking me will you die if you leap from a 3000 foot cliff?....Man, should the people making Billy madison knew about you, they would have made you a star....

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[juanesky 0]

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I am asking what do we do to stop these towel heads from blowing innocents up?

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You can start by not calling them towel heads.
After that, you can try learning some more about the issues before you begin spouting off incoherent babblings that only serve to insult others and show your incomplete comprehension.

I will try to explain this so even my 3 yo daughter would understand.

Towel head is a person willing to blow themselves up, for trying to become a martyr in the name of religion, a terrorist, someone ignorant, religous fanatic, which is not inclusive of a particular Race or creed. (don't forget Mr. Reid)
These are people intent to kill civilians, innocents claiming that their god motivate them to do it, most

Justin, were do you live, Disney world by any chance? I see that you don't think that there are serious issues about towel heads blowing themselves up and killing 1000's when they do? You are not concern about all those countries building Nukes, and their willingness to aid these towel heads? Maybe you did not have a relative, friend or someone die in the events that came as a shock to this nation? When on earth have you been? I would like to be there, as long as there is nothing illegal involved.

Complain all you want, but don't just try to make things cool by showing up and giving cheap talk. without explaining yourself.

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When you've mastered those, we'll work our way down the list.

Apparently you don't understand the words you are reading are you? If someone needs to learn (not expecting master for it seems not in accordance to your debating skills) how to express themselves, it is you, for you have left a post as blank as your thoughts.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[juanesky 0]

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You can start by not calling them towel heads.

Stop being culturally insensitive. Didn't you know it's proper to use derogatory comments about people if you're from S. America?

Damnit, knew I couldn't help myself.

Maybe one day you will venture out of your cocoon and see the light. But pretty obvious comment from someone who advocates the legalization of Weed, as well as claims that it is not harmful.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[quade 4]

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Is that the part about "Operation Ignore?" I hope to hell that isn't true.

Yes, that's the chapter. I hope it's not true either, but Franken has a huge axe to grind here and if his book's main thesis is that 9/11 fostered an environment wherein certain untruths were held up as facts and that the media was too lazy to correct the issue (or was in cahoots to tell the untruths), then my guess is that 99% of his research is pretty damn good, since that would really skewer him for anything further.

The allegations are scary as hell. One part of me wants his version to be true so we can boot out the folks that were negligent and the other part of me wants him to have a footnote somewhere that says, "naww, I'm just fuckin' with ya", because, like I said, it's scary as hell that anyone could possibly be that incompetent.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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I can't because Spain was never occupied by Germany

But it would have been if Franco was not Hitler's little puppet. I know you want to be all proud about the Spanish governemnt, but theyw ere just nazi helpers in those days, nothing to be really proud of.

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Well, again you trying to hide the historical facts.

Not trying to ignore historical facts at all. You cannot claim for fact what would have happened if the US had not acted. There is no history that way, hence you cannot claim it as fact. Not really that hard to understand. you keep avoiding my question.

i really do not need a history lesson, I know earopean WWII history quite well. Some animated maps from your little website really are not going to improve that knowledge.

In the end you are just a Spanish bigot weho is trying to glorify the spanish role during the war, while they were nothing more than some german slaves. Franco got power due to Hitler, Franco stayed in power due to Hitler, franco was just as bad as Hitler. You be proud of that all you want. I prefer to be rpud of my ancestors who fought in the war, against the nazis, not for the nazis.

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Which never made any sense to me either for Franco to do that. That is a stupid questiong. It's like asking me will you die if you leap from a 3000 foot cliff?....

Exactly, so how sovereign was Spain since they really had no choice in any of the matter? Franco was Hitler's puppet. Franco did as he was told. Like I said before, if you want to call that sovereign, go right ahead. the rest of the European world knows that Franco was just a little German bitch.

[juanesky 0]

Not only you are ignorant, but also your distorited notion of history is based on misconceptions.

Yo do need to some serious reviews there because if you are just trying to deny that Europe would have been ok after Nazism without US intervention, I guess that you just joined the ranks those ignorants of history.

I guess you are insisting that Franco was a Nazi regime, yet, you fail miserably for Franco DID SURVIVE for 35 years in power after Hitler's death, and before that he passed on the govt back to where it was before the whole ordeal.

So if you don't realize that my patternal Grand Father was republican, fighting to preserve democracy, then it is your own ignorance that feeds you the notion that I am a Bigot Nazi by breed. I laugh at this, you are just a whinnier who like any other liberals will cry because someone offended you. Your ignorance is offending you at this point, and I just can laugh to think you have no clue how bad you really look talking about things you don't know, but pretend you do....

Go to the library, and please "iluminate" the rest of us if you find a book on Nazi occupation of Spain...

The facts are just there in front of you and you can seem to see them.

Spain was idependent, with the help of Hitler in the Civil war years, and then Franco offered volunteers of his own troops. Nothing more, nothing less.

And the US saved Europe in WWII.

As for me, I will just keep being a Nazi Bigot you say I am, and keep preparing for war, maybe one day in the not so distant future, my orders from the Navy will come and actually have the opportunity to get me one of 'em towel heads. So keep day dreaming and thinking that this world's foes are the US, what you should do is take some history classes, and look at what you talk about, if you think knowledgeable about something.

It is really interesting that you live in Canada and don't even know French.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[skymama 37]

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Towel head is a person willing to blow themselves up, for trying to become a martyr in the name of religion, a terrorist, someone ignorant, religous fanatic, which is not inclusive of a particular Race or creed.

So, why can't you just call them a terrorist instead of a towel head so it's not assumed you are stereotyping people from the Middle East and thus offending people?

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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It is really interesting that you live in Canada and don't even know French.

do you really think everybody in Canada speaks French or should speak French?

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Yo do need to some serious reviews there because if you are just trying to deny that Europe would have been ok after Nazism without US intervention

Once again, you are putting words into my mouth. I said that you were prob right, but that it remained speculation since we will really never know. I used that to get you to asnwer my speculative question. At no point did I indicate that Europe would have been fine without the allied intervention. Please remember there were more than only americans in the allied forces.

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I laugh at this, you are just a whinnier who like any other liberals will cry because someone offended you. Your ignorance is offending you at this point, and I just can laugh to think you have no clue how bad you really look talking about things you don't know, but pretend you do....

lol, well since I am not a liberal I don't really take offence at this, just smile at your ignorance.

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Go to the library, and please "iluminate" the rest of us if you find a book on Nazi occupation of Spain...

Can you please tell me where I said Spain was ever occupied? ohh...oops....you can't, I never did.

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And the US saved Europe in WWII.

Right, there were absolutely other countries involved

So, you still haven't answered my really simple question.......

[FliegendeWolf 0]

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The allegations are scary as hell. One part of me wants his version to be true so we can boot out the folks that were negligent and the other part of me wants him to have a footnote somewhere that says, "naww, I'm just fuckin' with ya", because, like I said, it's scary as hell that anyone could possibly be that incompetent.

The potential runs deeper than that, though. My fear would be that the allegations are true, but that ignoring the situation wasn't just incompetence but rather a means to boosting poll ratings.

Look, when the towers came down a lot of people were talking about how they never thought anything like that could happen, and I remember feeling that, shocking as it was, I never believed that the world was so safe that something like that couldn't happen. Do I want to believe that I live in a world in which the American administration could know about a massive terror attack with thousands of civilian casualties on American soil but ignore it for political ends? God no.

Regarding Franken's research, I agree that he probably did his work, since his entire first two chapters bashed Ann Coulter for failing to do hers. However, I couldn't help but notice that, given what he says about Coulter's, his endnotes weren't exactly easy to follow, either. They had no page or number references, but were laid out as a list.

A One that Isn't Cold is Scarcely a One at All

[quade 4]

Then again, he really only had one end note -- to illustrate how difficult they are to use and find.

His footnotes are great.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[FliegendeWolf 0]

Well, two actually. But those aren't what I'm talking about (they were a nice touch). I'm talking about the section of notes before the index.

A One that Isn't Cold is Scarcely a One at All