Jimbo 0 #51 August 27, 2003 QuoteOne thing about raising cows, pigs, chickens, etc for consumption in the US. Have you ever seen any of the farms where they are raised? Cows packed into pastures so tight that they can't move, dying and being left in the fields. Chickens packed into boxes with 40 other chickens with their beaks and toenails cut off so they can't peck each other and damage the meat. Besides the fact that it's just cruel to the animals, it can't possibly be a healthy condition to raise meat that we are going to feed our nation. That's why we cook it. Mmm.. Meat. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #52 August 27, 2003 It's all about the groceries...What about chow?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cloudseeker2001 0 #53 August 27, 2003 Hey Ann, Sketer looks great!!!!! Maybe I should put Speer's pic up too! "Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance, others mean and rueful of the western dream" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cloudseeker2001 0 #54 August 27, 2003 you know, saving dogs in china is really none of my concern........BUT, maybe you can convence Bush that these dogs have WMD and we can do something about it! and besides, what about all those poor deer here in the US, or the chickens, or the cows, or the pigs, or the turkeys at thanksgiving...........MY GOD, the humanity of it! "Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance, others mean and rueful of the western dream" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cloudseeker2001 0 #55 August 27, 2003 QuoteIt's all about the groceries...What about chow?! right! I did not see any chows!!!!!!! "Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance, others mean and rueful of the western dream" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveNFlorida 0 #56 August 27, 2003 Never had a lamb as a pet,... but damn, lamb is so good! I'm a carnivore, so it is hypocritical of me to say that they should not eat a certain type of animal. I can't say I wouldn't eat dog if I were starving, cuz I likely would. I can understand the points being made about this being another country and a belief for them, etc.. And, when first reading it, I wasn't going to sign against it. Then, I read about them being bled and skinned when they aren't even sure they're dead by the time they r done skinning them and that sometimes when they unhook them they start to move and try to get up. That's sick, at least put the poor thing out of its misery before skinning it. Then there was also mention of suspicion that they beat the dogs b4 killing them to get adrenaline pumping to tenderize the meat. I don't condone eating dogs, but at least do it humanely, kill the dog, then skin it. Order of operations people! This is why I ended up signing the petition which i'm sure will not make a lick of difference, but I signed it anyhow. Again, jmo. Angela Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #57 September 11, 2003 Eat More Dogs, Cambodians Urged - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #58 September 11, 2003 Oh, man. That is just so wrong. Remember those firefighters in Queens who had the rat problem? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quack 0 #59 September 12, 2003 What's the big deal?? If you were in India and talked about eating beef there would be the same commotion. It's a different culture. It's all food. Now I'm not saying we should be investing in stocks of Soylent Green......but then, whatever it takes to feed people.... But you have to understand, mental illness is like cholesterol. There is the good kind and the bad. Without the good kind- less flavor to life. - Serge A. Storms Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveNFlorida 0 #60 September 12, 2003 whatever, man. We don't skin animals alive here (to the best of my knowledge), it is plain cruel. Angela. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pds 0 #61 September 12, 2003 ann, i know you love dogs. indians love cows. it's going to require acceptance and tolerance on your part to get through this without it beating you up. good luck.namaste, motherfucker. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freefallfreak 0 #62 September 12, 2003 QuoteI have eaten an incredible amount of "carne de res" outside of bars in Panama and other Central and South American countries. What's that? Monkey meat. It's fucking YUMMY! Iguana is not bad either, but it's a bit salty for some people's taste. Ditto...only it was in Olongapo, Phillipines and Saigon, Viet Nam, Hong Kong and Kawloon. And you are right...i'ts fucking YUMMY!!! Cooked over a braizer on the street, in total unsanitary conditions, stuck on small sticks like kabobs, and was some of the best munchies I've ever had. TripleF Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quack 0 #63 September 12, 2003 Quotewhatever, man. We don't skin animals alive here (to the best of my knowledge), it is plain cruel. Angela. Some information on that. Although I am not an *expert* on it, I have been around...and no, I'm not trying to change opinions (I respect all differences of opinion), just providing information: By the time an animal is stuck, bled and then skinned, there is zero chance that it is actually alive. After all of the blood is let, the animal is dead. Without letting of the blood, the quality of the meat deteriorates and there aren't any processors or their customers I know of that would tolerate that. The kicking and other responses that occur during the bleeding (and perhaps into the skinning stage, dependant on the time lapse) are involuntary responses. Contrary to the claims of People For the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) and other organizations there is a GREAT concern on the part of the meat industry to ensure animal welfare: It is not only a legal requirement in many countries, but is a food safety and quality issue as well. I have seen many videos on these organizations' websites of animals purportedly skinned alive, but the science doesn't add up: It's propaganda. Nations outside of North America, Europe and Australasia certainly have a different take on things culturally, and these differences are reflected in their choices of foodstuffs and the methods they use. However, it should be kept in mind that North Americans are the most ethnocentric citizens of the world. Our opinions represent only a fraction of the world population.......there are many ways to skin a cat.....(sorry 'bout that, couldn't resist!) For more info, check out one of the leading experts on animal welfare here But you have to understand, mental illness is like cholesterol. There is the good kind and the bad. Without the good kind- less flavor to life. - Serge A. Storms Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airann 1 #64 September 12, 2003 Well, this I guess is my life story. I hope somebody reads it, please. It has taken forever to write. My point, I think, is to show I am ok with whatever folks do as I am not unfamiliar with most things. It is to each his own about eating dogs or cats, Puppy and Kitten Stew ... I have had time to refect on this. The way it was presented to me on the Great Dane forum, basically it just startled me. Then I suppose I was trying to save my ass and my opinion in here. On that particular day I felt however it was I felt. I am not going back to read it. And I really do appreciate everyones input. You learn that way. Heh, oh well... here goes... My Daddy always says -it is life in the food chain. (thats his name, ok?) I am not unfamiliar with the consumption of unusual meat. 99.99 % of the below material my best friends and kids I grew up with dont know. Then, I was trying to be more girl like, I guess. It would gross the girls out anyway. Again, I hope at least Aggie Dave reads this. The attempted moral is, meat is meat when you are starving. (Someone mentioned the Soccor team that was involved in the high altitude airplane crash. I read the book) My father has served me many meats and I have hunted deer, duck, goose, quail, rabbit, bull frog, iguana, alligator, dove, turkey and more with him. Froggin is fun, alligator is not they are big, the hooks are huge. My favorite is Quail as we work with our dogs. For rabbit hunting we had 13 beagles. For dove & quail, three pointers. Golden Retriever for duck and goose. Now its Brittany Spaniels (3) that he loves. Canada- caribou, bear & moose / Russia - pheasant, these he did on his own while he hunted there. Fly fishing in England & Montana. Prong horn antelope, mule deer, some kind of Ram, I cant remember all the heads we had on our walls. Rugs were Jaquar, bobcat and boar. The Jaguar had spear scars on it and was bagged in British Honduras, before Belize. He had an encounter with some vampire bats in a cave there. He brought back a live snake, but he couldnt get it back into the country, there were problems. At the airport they told him. We want no snake, Mon. (Man) I got this today- for a guy who writes books its short... "We just got off a little trip to Romania, Bulgaria, Serbia, passed by Coratia and hit Chezk Republic. Came in the storm today...tired! Love Dad" No telling what he was chasing over there. I dont even know where those places are. When he goes to Mexico for dove, he takes guns he doesnt plan on bringing back. Our house burned down in 79, my Dad lost 81 guns that he could remember for the Insurance. Our favorites were not in the gun room when it burned. The firefighters could not go in as Daddy bought cases of bullets and shells. Shyt was exploding everywhere. He also reloaded shells and I did that too, but treated it like playing with dolls. We saved over 20 guns. He had bought many up to that time starting as a kid. He isnt the collector type, he used them, he dropped them, he let them slide around in the back of Suburbans and ATV's. The noise was irratating, but that is all. We just felt like they are unloaded and the safety is ON. Just dont put them where they can slide and hit one of the dogs. If one fell in a deep mud hole, Oh well.... we kept going and he picked up another one without batting an eye. It didnt surprise me, but it did some. He said 'Hell, there is an Oshmans or Carters Country around here someplace.' Everytime I smell gun oil or WD40, memories just flood in. You should try walking in your Dads waders... its real fun when they fill up with water. Daddy always gave the leaky ones to his friends, he found it funny. The stuff in the flask helped. Yet NO big drinking on hunts. Guns; stricktly enforced was, is your safety on, always point your gun straight down, never shoot unless you know where every single one is on your hunt. Never shoot unless you know beyond all that it is something you are looking for and not Uncle Earl with his hearing aid and arthritis. While hunting with Uncle Beavis, be prepared to hit the deck, and dont get mud in the barrel. My Dad has written a book on the above hunting escapades, fishing trips and his antics flying his aerobatic plane. I flew with him sitting on jackets, so I could see out. Later he taught me to fly, but not to land. (same problem I have now) As a voluteer firefighter, Ducks Unlimited Central Flyway Pres. and Major sponsor he had more ammunition for his book. I was a Greenwing, the rank you get when you are too young to practice real conservation with the big people and be in the real Ducks Unlimited. Presently, Daddy is a National Trustee Emeritus. Whatever that is with DU. Some writings about my hunting trips with him are in the book, of course its funny. Airplanes, Alligators and Hi-Fin Blues, (a type of catfish). JR Bob Jamison, Tall Tale Publishers. $18.95, if you want an autographed copy let me know. After my 1st deer at age 11, I went thru the initiation with the blood on my forehead, the whole nine yards, campfire and all. And yes, I was expected to clean it and I did. I had help breaking the pelvis so I would not break the urine sack while field dressing it. I had some help getting up to the lungs and yanking it out. Later back at band camp, hanging the deer up, I had to hold it as best I could, then if needed I got help. That deer and the ones after, same drill, clean, skin, quarter. One tear accidently fell out, while my Dad snapped pictures of me, my 6mm and the first deer. As a kid, I was expected to be tough as hell and I was. I was not allowed to whine or step on a stick. The snap would scare away what ever. I couldnt move in a blind, no bathroom drill, except for emergency. These things or I couldnt go with him. I was not allowed to see the movie Bambi by Walt Disney. Daddy said the hunter was portrayed wrong. I was expected to do better than the sons of his friends and I did, no matter what their ages were, always, always way older than me at 70 lbs. While hunting I was not allowed to use more than one shot. If it was not clean, dont make it, period. White toilet paper in my pocket if it was not clean, (the shot that is) and I had to locate the deer follow the blood, all night, all day, all week however long it took. Dont come back without it. Other wise its a wasted animal. It never happened to me but it did to my Mother, at night. It was hard to find and one more shot to fix. She was exempt from looking for it. Three shots never ever that means emergency, and everyone comes on the hunt. Two shots you better have 2 things. You stay in your blind until someone picks you up or you get the signal. If I killed anything I was expected to clean it and eat it. To force this point home, I used to shoot lizards with a pelet gun for practice. Daddy said, Hey you know better. While he was at work I kept doing it. As we had catfish one nite, he fried a lizard up. There was no talking, I knew what that was about. They are crunchy. Instead of practicing with lizards, I was to shoot a stick in a creek at the water line, and shoot playing cards stuck in the bark of a pine tree. I was on the Rifelry team at college. I was however never good with hand guns at a distance. At age 12 recieved NRA Marksman, Marksman First Class, and Pro Marksman metals and some Archery stuff the same year. I was my Dad's ringer at private Skeet shoots. I would play in mud puddles while they shot skeet. During nice cold beers (its 5:00 somewhere he said) my Dad would bet the other men that his daughter could out shoot their sons with an over and under Stevens 410 that was (legal) sawed off for walking thru brush, no choke. (nickle plated and I still have it) I beat them, yet somehow it bored me. My Dad could shoot skeet with a 22 rifle. We shot skeet at home all the time. The bets were never cashed in even tho we won, he said it wasnt fair, it was just for laughs. During Christmas time, we shot Chrismas trees as a family tradition toasting with Irish Whiskey. Yep, we shot out the tops of regular old pine trees. One tree one shot, and you got the first toast. Yummy, even for a tot like I was. For sappy pine trees it often took 2-3 shots at that height. No problem, its Christmas. We also got misteltoe that way. My Dads house is in the middle of the estate of 1100 acres. Lots of pines, lots of wildlife. I was taught you can not take away and not put back. So we have always taken care of the enviroment and as much we can & things that live in it. We never ever go over our limit and we never ever hunt without a license or out of season. The cost of hunting license is a good cause. Read the back of it. Poachers are our worst enemy. ATV people who tear up our land and the animals enviroment are next. Fences are cut and its bad, the wildlife will leave and go into highways and worse, shot and left there. Currently, he protects Rosette Spoonbills, relocates alligators and many other things. Again as a kid we raised injured animals, red tailed hawlk, 3 barn owls, 2 monkeys saved from some experiments given to him, an abused Scarlet Macaw, an orphand Brahman bull, 2 bobcats and an eight foot long alligator somebody ran over a little .. thats all I can remember. When they were squared away, they went back into the wild or wherever they were supposed to be. We set traps as well as undid other traps. Setting a trap is hard. You can not leave any scent and you have to go backwards on your steps. When I was a kid it was legal to set a trap with a loaded explosive containing aresenic. (1961 was a good year, ok?) You could get the Game Wardens permission. I can not remember what else was involved. But this practice was abused and some ranchers did it a lot. Undoing those traps is like disarming a land mine, very dangerous. Daddy made me wear seriously heavy boots and stand very far away. I never stepped on an aresnic trap as I had to watch for animals in the sky and land at the same time not stepping on sticks on the ground. It gets to be habit. This deadly charge was included in a hunk of meat that went off in the animals (wolf) mouth. We took pictures of the dead, as they were in limited numbers already for our friend the Game warden, no really he was a friend. Other traps were leg traps, sometimes the only thing left was the paw. Yet we could not get them all. The wolf is now gone from this area of Texas. I was also good at tracking. Sometimes you can hear a come back of the coyote at night. So as you can see, I reckon a couple of dogs aint too big of a deal. Especially when you see so many at the SPCA getting snuffed out for stupid reasons. These that get snuffed out do not get to sustain anyones life. This is what I have learned from my life and from all of you who have traveled and know more than I do about other countries and traditions. I kinda feel like I have a huge understanding now. ~AirAnn~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pds 0 #65 September 12, 2003 uhh, could you elaborate on that, anne? thats quite a story. thanks. i feel like i know you. well enough not to piss you off with a rifle in reach, anyway. take care. skynamaste, motherfucker. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quack 0 #66 September 12, 2003 The story you tell is very interesting and takes me to a place other than the usual posts. Thanks for sharing it. I appreciate it. I'm not sure if I understand where you are coming from, though. But you have to understand, mental illness is like cholesterol. There is the good kind and the bad. Without the good kind- less flavor to life. - Serge A. Storms Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airann 1 #67 September 12, 2003 QuoteI'm not sure if I understand where you are coming from, though. Me either. ~AirAnn~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MC208B 0 #68 September 12, 2003 Dogs (and cats) were a rare sight in Vietnam. I couldn't imagine eating my Pugs, but then again, there isn't that much meat on them! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
