How much are human lives worth?

[PhillyKev 0]

And what is more important? Safeguarding human life, or making people feel like you are.

About 300 billion dollars is projected as the amount spent for The War on Terror by the US for 2003.

9/11 death toll 2,379. Assuming the goal of the war on terror is to prevent another similar catastrophe, that means this year alone, approximately $126,000,000 is being spent for each death that day.

There shouldn't be a dollar figure associated with human life. But I have to ask. If the main goal of the war on terror is protecting the lives of US citizens, how many lives could be saved if that money was directed toward other preventable causes of death.

Here are some yearly figures.

Tobacco:430,700
Alcohol:110,640
Adverse Reactions To PrescriptionDrugs: 32,000
Suicide:30,575
Homicide:18,272
All Licit And Illicit Drug-Induced Deaths:16,926
Anti-Inflammatory Drugs Such As Aspirin:7,600

And just to throw another factor into the mix. It's estimated that $7 billion is spent per year to fight the use of Marijuana.

Total number of deaths caused by marijuana since the beginning of time: 0

I don't know, maybe it's just me. But I really think a whole lot of people have their priorities out of whack.

[kansasskydiver 0]

for the right amount of money, i might sell my life any offers?

things i won't do though if you buy me:

-wash the dishes
-do the laundry
-watch teh kids
-work for free
-cut the grass
-pay the bills
-not drink beer
-have sex with a man
-do anything you tell me too

if you still want to buy me, about $15,000 is a starting price

<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist!

[TomAiello 26]

There is a big difference between human lives lost to the action of others and human lives lost due to their own actions.

Maybe you ought to list the number of lives lost to skydiving, and how much money is being spent every year to fight that scourge? Makes about as much sense as suggesting we "fight" the voluntary, personal choice to consume alcohol, tobacco, or whatever substance you happen to prefer personally.

And, um, how do you get your figure that 430,700 folks die of smoking, but 0 die of marijuana? I guess the smoking deaths are due to sudden radical nicotine overdose? And smoking marijuana has no deleterious long term health implications?

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[jlmiracle 7]

I'm not making light of this, but my life is at least worth the cost of a cypres.

You make a very valid point PhillyKev, but unfortunatly, you don't get to make those decisions, even though they seem to be more logical than the current state of affairs. I love the USA, but damn lets take care of our own first.

Judy

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[chuteless 1]

I knew a guy who was in Angola with the army, and he said you could have anyone killed for 2 cigarettes. Thats a pretty cheap price to put on a life. Is there any wonder their country is constantly going down the toilet?

[jumper03 0]

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total number of deaths caused by marijuana since the beginning of time: 0

Even though I'm libertarian in my leanings (do what the hell you want to) that number is wrong.

I had two close friends in high school die less than a month apart as a direct result of the use of marijuana.

Jump

Scars remind us that the past is real

[whocares 0]

I had two close friends in high school die less than a month apart as a direct result of the use of marijuana.
***

Sorry for the loss but how did pot kill them?

[miked10270 0]

The answer is: 5 Camels

At least, that was the going rate in the Tblisi...

Maybe this is a "supply and Demand thing - The US (GWB) has about 300,000,000 lives, so supply is high!? Lichtenstein has about 28 lives, so supply is low. Perhaps that's why Lichtenstein didn't invade Iraq!

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[PhillyKev 0]

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There is a big difference between human lives lost to the action of others and human lives lost due to their own actions.

Not to the people that die.

Quote

And, um, how do you get your figure that 430,700 folks die of smoking, but 0 die of marijuana?

Nicotine and tar are carcinogens. THC is not. And in general, people don't smoke a pack of joints a day.

Quote

Makes about as much sense as suggesting we "fight" the voluntary, personal choice to consume alcohol, tobacco, or whatever substance you happen to prefer personally.

I'll bet if you spent 300billion dollars on anti-smoking, anti-drinking education, you'd save quite a few lives. More than are being saved by the war on terror.

[jlmiracle 7]

Quote

Quote

total number of deaths caused by marijuana since the beginning of time: 0

Even though I'm libertarian in my leanings (do what the hell you want to) that number is wrong.

I had two close friends in high school die less than a month apart as a direct result of the use of marijuana.

Jump

Please explain how? I am very curious about that.

Judy

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[SkydiverRick 0]

Quote

Quote

total number of deaths caused by marijuana since the beginning of time: 0

Even though I'm libertarian in my leanings (do what the hell you want to) that number is wrong.

I had two close friends in high school die less than a month apart as a direct result of the use of marijuana.

Jump

Did thier Dealers shot them? Seriously, I have never heard of marijuana killing anyone.

never pull low......unless you are

[jumper03 0]

Both died in car accidents. Marijuana impaired their judgement - end of story. I know stupidity played a large part, but the fact remains, if they had not been smoking the weed - they would not have died at that time. I guess most of the fault could be with the rest of us there that let the idiots get into the vehicle and leave - but then, hind sight is always 20/20.


Jump

Scars remind us that the past is real

[jlmiracle 7]

Was there ANY alcohol involved? I'm sorry for you loss, but in cases where they tried to blame the dope, there was alcohol involved.

Judy

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[storm1977 0]

I have to agree with that... Saying Pot was not the result of anyones death is stupid and ignorant. Believe what you will Kev, but you are wrong

-----------------------------------------------------
Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[Gawain 0]

The answer is 42.

Seriously, your figures have merit. But, it is not an apples-to-apples comparison. Some If/Then/Therefore logic needs to be applied.

Cost of 1000 cans of shaving cream (@$5.99ea): $5990.00
Cost of converting to aerosol distribution of biological agent, including all components (ala Clancy, Executive Orders): $500,000
Cost of smuggling in the the US: $0.00 as the courier(s) will be killed upon delivery (option, add cost of bullets or knife)
Cost of airline tickets to distribute personnel and 20 cans to the top 50 markets in the US: $100,000
Cost of casualties given medium weather conditions and a 20% equipment failure?

So if 75% of the plotted attacks is foiled, and 10 major cities suffer an attack, assume a 10% casualty rate every week (pick a population avg of 750,000), 750,000 dead week one, 670,000 week two, etc.

Simply an off the cuff example.

BTW: Smoking Marijuana has the same long term affects as tobacco, so if a long time hippie pot smoker of 25 years gets lung cancer...that "0" figure may not be accurate. Just a thought.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[jumper03 0]

no alcohol what so ever. It's been many moons ago, but I think about that every time someone says pot doesn't kill.

Smoke if you want, no worries from me. But like with everything else, just don't get stupid when you do....

Scars remind us that the past is real

[TomAiello 26]

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There is a big difference between human lives lost to the action of others and human lives lost due to their own actions.

Not to the people that die.

Bull. If you follow that argument to it's logical conclusion, we all ought to be kept from jumping "for our own good." After all, once we die, our death feels the same, whether the choices we made enhanced our lives or not.

If you remove all choices (and hazardous activities) on the pretext that you are "saving lives" and that someone catching a stray bullet while sitting on the couch is "just the same" as someone who goes in while chasing their dreams, you might as well lock us all up in padded rooms. After all, preventing deaths is the ultimate goal, isn't it? What matter if your life isn't very enjoyable, so long as you don't die?

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Nicotine and tar are carcinogens. THC is not.

But there are other hazardous chemicals that you inhale in Marijuana smoke. I'm pretty sure that joint smoke is actually more harmful than cigarette smoke (largely because of the filter on a cigarette.

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And in general, people don't smoke a pack of joints a day.

Go to Moscow and hang out with the Russian jumping crowd. I bet your generalization doesn't last long there.

Seriously, what difference does it make if it's a pack or one smoke? It's still hurting their health, right? And in the long run, someone who smokes only marijuana will die younger than a non-smoker, right? So, marijuana will, statistically, "cause" some non-zero number of deaths.

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I'll bet if you spent 300billion dollars on anti-smoking, anti-drinking education, you'd save quite a few lives. More than are being saved by the war on terror.

Yep. And if you spent 300 billion dollars on anti-skydiving education you'd save some lives, too. Thought control may save lives, but it sure doesn't make them more worthwhile.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[freeflybella 0]

Isn't it like saying cell phones kill people?

If you use one while driving, it may distract you or impair your driving - but does the cell phone actually kill?

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[storm1977 0]

so, under your agruement drinking and driving is OK. No it doesn't distract you...it Impaires your ability to function normally or think normally.

-----------------------------------------------------
Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

[freeflybella 0]

Quote

So, marijuana will, statistically, "cause" some non-zero number of deaths.

I guess you have to make some determination about the use of the term 'cause'.

'Life' causes death.

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[jlmiracle 7]

Quote

no alcohol what so ever. It's been many moons ago, but I think about that every time someone says pot doesn't kill.

Smoke if you want, no worries from me. But like with everything else, just don't get stupid when you do....

Thank you for the info. I can't believe most of us made it out high school alive.

Judy

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[freeflybella 0]

Quote

so, under your agruement drinking and driving is OK. No it doesn't distract you...it Impaires your ability to function normally or think normally.

Exactly.

You should not smoke marijuana and drive.
You should not drink and drive.

BUT...alcohol is different.

Alcohol can kill you over a period of time, as well as can kill you in one binge.

I have never heard of someone ODing on pot. Or cell phones.

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[TomAiello 26]

Quote

'Life' causes death.

That's the best thing I've heard in this thread.

A corollary might be: The only way to prevent deaths is to keep people from living.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[PhillyKev 0]

Ok...the marijuana figure I threw in as an afterthought because it was listed with the other statistics, but that was not the point of my post.

I'll address your response, but my point was that fear and paranoia is driving the approval of the war on terror and IMO, it is not as justifiable as other uses for that money. Not that we should do nothing, but it's getting overboard.

As to your post:

Quote

Bull. If you follow that argument to it's logical conclusion, we all ought to be kept from jumping "for our own good." After all, once we die, our death feels the same, whether the choices we made enhanced our lives or not.

I didn't say anyone should be prevented from doing anything. I specifically mentioned educational prevention.

Quote

But there are other hazardous chemicals that you inhale in Marijuana smoke. I'm pretty sure that joint smoke is actually more harmful than cigarette smoke (largely because of the filter on a cigarette.

Marijuana smoke can be more damaging because it burns hotter. But that's just a good justification for removing the laws against paraphenalia. Water pipes cool the smoke, but they can not be purchased in many states.

The tar in cigarettes is radioactive. The tar in marijuana is not.

Quote

Yep. And if you spent 300 billion dollars on anti-skydiving education you'd save some lives, too. Thought control may save lives, but it sure doesn't make them more worthwhile.

And you don't think the current propaganda machine is thought control?

I just happened to pull the first statistics I ran across, but the same case could be made for diabeties or HIV. I'm willing to bet that $300billion spent on the care or cure for either of those will save a lot more that 3000 lives.

[storm1977 0]

Ok, but if someone was shitfaced and drove into a wall, what would be the cause of that death?

I would say alcohol. It Caused him/her to drive into a wall.

Same argument with pot.

A cellphone does not impair judgement, it does however distract.

Impaired judgement is a lot different than distraction.

Chris

-----------------------------------------------------
Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty