Oh no... what do I do now?

[EricaH 0]

So for the last 120 jumps I've been on a Spectre 190 (1 wingload) - nice save docile, Volvo like canopy.
This weekend I demo'd a Safire 149 (1.38 wingload) & LOVED IT!! More like a BMW 525M or a sporty Audi A6. Now I know why people do hop-n-pops, why they become canopy pilots & even more as to why bird's sing.

So to buy a used canopy, do I take a withdrawal on my 401K plan, pay a 20% tax & a 10% penalty or do I suck it up?!?!
It's not a loan & doesn't have to be paid back...

And the sale of my current canopy would help pay back the loan I originally took to buy my complete rig.

I honestly don't know if I can drive my volvo again & be really happy.

There is no can't. Only lack of knowledge or fear. Only you can fix your fear.

PMS #227 (just like the TV show)

[AggieDave 6]

There will always be another canopy later. Don't withdrawal on something as important as your 401K plan. That is for the future, not the here and now.

Oh, and A Spectre at a 1:1 wingloading doesn't have to be like a Volvo...it can be flown hard and swooped nicely.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[PhreeZone 20]

Erica, did you figure the wingloading on the 149 based on the 149 advertised on it or the 138 size that is really is?

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Financially, the responsible choice is to "be bored and save your money". But sometimes it's more fun to experience the instant grantification "and take the loan" so that you can fly this Saffire now. So I'm not sure which way to vote (yet).

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[bbarnhouse 0]

Quote

Spectre 190 (1 wingload) - nice save docile, Volvo like canopy.
This weekend I demo'd a Safire 149 (1.38 wingload)

Umm thats quite a jump in canopy sizes. Its really a 138 I believe...you may want to read some of the posts on downsizing in the safety forum.
Cheers!
BB

[wmw999 2,479]

Save money aggressively until the right used gear deal comes up. Pack a lot. Then borrow the rest when the right deal comes. It's rarely worth your while to take money out of your 401K. These are your most productive years to put money into it; as you get older, buy a house, maybe have kids, you'll stop putting as much into it, but the money that's there now will keep gathering interest.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Casie 0]

It sucks paying those penality fees....don't take it out of your 401K. Find something used if possible or just wait for the right opporutunity! Good Luck & keep us posted!

~Porn Kitty
WARNING: Goldschlager causes extreme emotional outbursts!

[Blahr 0]

My inexperienced feeling is that going from a 1:1 wingload to a 1.38:1 is a MONSTER change.

Too monstrous.

Common sense and opinion say not to change size and planform at the same time, nor to downsize more than one size at a time.

Your proposed change kinda goes against everything I've ever read

[AndyMan 7]

I would much rather you be bored, then in the hospital.

Learn high performance skills before you get a high performance canopy.

Make no mistake, that safire 149 clearly puts you into the high performance range. If you screw up one landing, it will hurt.

You know that tall guy at the DZ? The guy who we make fun of for buying a 135 with a hundred jumps cuz he wanted to learn how to swoop? The guy who wanted to borrow Doug's 87? You're making the same (bad) choice.

You can fly any canopy aggresively. Have a rigger install some dive loops so you can play with your spectre now. I used to swoop my Triathlon (loaded at 1.1) There's not any reason why you can't fly your current canopy aggresively - indeed you SHOULD be flying your current canopy aggresively if you want to be a hot shot pilot. I wish you'd work with people like Casey Deck or Clint on your canopy skills before going small.

Become a hot shot pilot before you buy a hot shot main.

That safire is a hotshot main.

_Am (being honest, cuz I like you and wanna keep you around, not cuz I'm trying to be a dick)

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[bbarnhouse 0]

Quote

Learn high performance skills before you get a high performance canopy.

One should indeed learn to fly their current canopy to the maximum before downsizing.
Downsizing too quickly not only can hurt...it can and does kill.
Just because one can make it to the ground a few times under a smaller canopy does not mean that one would be able to land it where needed in an emergancy situation (think small space). Save your money and wait until you have the skill set to fly an aggressive canopy.
BB

[EricaH 0]

I know you're all giving excellent, wonderful advice... but NO the Spectre can not fly like the Safire. Just simple turns (way up high) were so much for fun. I actually looked forward to jumping solo so I could pull @ 7!!
It would be a small loan for less than $1000 so I could buy a used canopy.
I know it's a high performance canopy & is a big step down. But the 169 barely felt different - fun but not REALLY FUN!! The Icarus guys told me the wing loading after I gave them my 'w/o gear weight'... I didn't see how they did it.

Did a few jumps, one in bout 10 mph wind, some inbetween & @ sunset... one w/ NO wind. The no wind landing was a bit rough, but no were near as scary as some of my 1st landings.

Oh & the $$s from the profit sharing portion of my 401k... $$ I never actually earned.

There is no can't. Only lack of knowledge or fear. Only you can fix your fear.

PMS #227 (just like the TV show)

[crutch 0]

Erica, find a fellow skydive who is well off (has more than one rig/extra chute) and borrow it. Not to be chauvanistic, but a woman can make many a man give up somethings with the bat of an eye

blue skies,

art

[Gawain 0]

I can't help but advise that you save some cash and buy the appropriate used canopy, if/when it becomes available. However, you did, through your actions, reaffirm to me that I should not demo any gear since I don't want to face the same decision you've chosen to confront.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[bbarnhouse 0]

Quote

but NO the Spectre can not fly like the Safire.

You don't think so? I will tell you that my camera flyer has 4 spectres and has been flying them for many many years. He can out fly many of the "hot shot" newer pilots under hot shot canopies.
You have to be able to land your canopy in ALL conditions and land it consistantly.
You're going to do what you're going to do, but my advice is that canopy is too much too soon.
BB

[AndyMan 7]

Quote

but NO the Spectre can not fly like the Safire.

Given proper training, the difference between these canopies is not big, at all. Actually knowing how to pilot these canopies to their max makes a much bigger difference.

I guarantee that Casey can swoop a Specter at 1.1 a hundred feet. I'ts the pilot, not the canopy.

There is NOTHING you can't learn under that canopy, for now.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[freeflir29 0]

"Goose Step....MAAAHHHHHCCHHHHH!!!!"



OK...canopy nazi stuff aside....I have to agree. That's a bit agressive at 140 jumps. (If your profile is up to date) I went from a PD 190 (Square, F111 loaded 1.2 ish) to a Stiletto 170 loaded 1.3ish at about jump 137 I think. It was a big jump and took MANY more jumps to land accurately EVERY time. Mind you.....I was also flying the DOG SHIT out of the 190. 270 hooks were my "normal" approach and I had done a 360 once just to see what it was like. I've been on that Stiletto now for around 230 some jumps. I was going to down size again but I just haven't had the currency this summer. I have only done about 60 some jumps instead of the 150 I had last summer. So....I'll let the Cross Braced stay at Precision for now. Anyway....I vote for wait....smaller canopies can be fun but ambulance rides suck.

[juanesky 0]

Erica,

It really concerns me, a total stranger, the step you are about to take. I am no expert by any means, but yet, seem this situation happene before.

As to where you seem to be shopping for a financial answer in the hope you hear positive reinforcement in changing your wingload. Ask around, ask a lot, ask Billvon for advice, he has a few tasks for u to do before increasing your wingload that drastically. Hear people who is very experienced before you do.

It seems that you are dancing on the razor's edge by asking this question in here. Have you landed with your rear risers? do flat turns at 30ft?...your canopy can do way much what you imply on your post....

Please listen to reason, and save a buck or 2, wouldn; t it be better for you to go to the chicks boogie and Eloy instead? meet with some of us and have a blast, instead of receiving vibes for your well being.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[chopchop 0]

Erica... this could not only break your 401k account but your body... IMHO, you shouldn't downsize to that right now.. even if it was free.. You may be able to land it perfectly most of the time but when you are suddenly spooked and yank a toggle close to the ground or something else silly happens, the consequences will be severe.. much more severe than on a Spectre at 1:1.. Take your time, girl, learn to fly your canopy to it's potential and downsize one step at a time.. I totally understand the fun factor of a zippier canopy but if you aren't feeling the fear and are just anxious to get on with it.. I am afraid for you.. My advice? Relax.. have fun with the Spectre.. save your money and buy a used 170 a little down the road.. Take it from a guy who broke himself on a Safire at 1.4 with around 140 jumps..

chopchop
gotta go... Plaything needs a spanking..

Lotsa Pictures

[freeflir29 0]

Quote

Take it from a guy who broke himself on a Safire at 1.4 with around 140 jumps..

Wow...there ya go Erica..... We bitch cause we care......

[MikeMcLean 0]

Quote

So to buy a used canopy, do I take a withdrawal on my 401K plan, pay a 20% tax & a 10% penalty or do I suck it up?!?!
It's not a loan & doesn't have to be paid back...

See if your 401(k) plan offers loans, many do. You will borrow money from yourself (your 401k) and repay to yourself (through payroll deductions) with interest (that ends up in your 401k).

It wouldn't hurt you to think like a fucking serial killer every once in a while - just for the sake of prevention

[mouth 0]

Erica,

I have to agree that downsizing that drastically right now is only asking for trouble. You will do what you want no matter what we say though because as we have seen many times before there is always going to be someone out there that will sell you the "machine" you want even if you are not qualified to fly it. Thus my advice is do what you want, but at least seek some agressive canopy skills training for your first jumps on the new main.

I hope I don't read about you in the incidents forum.

--
Hot Mama
At least you know where you stand even if it is in a pile of shit.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Quote

I hope I don't read about you in the incidents forum.

The same thoughts should be applied to all of us. Yes Erica is thinking of downsizing more aggresively than most of us would recommend (and it's possible that y'all have already changed her mind). But everyone who flies their canopy in an aggresive manner is at risk of messing themselves up. Not just Erica.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[livendive 8]

It seems most of the responses you've gotten deal with the adviseability of the downsize, not the expense. The people who will give you the best advice in that department are those who know your skills and/or lack thereof. By this I don't mean your friends, but your local instructors/S&TA/DZO/old-timers. Talk to them about what you want to do and maybe ask them to give you an honest evaluation of your canopy skills. It's possible you are ready for such a move (perhaps with a transition canopy), but they'll be able to give you a much better idea than those of us who have never seen you fly.

For everyone else, it seems the line of "aggressive" is moving rapidly in both directions at the same time. While hardcore swoopers move farther and farther above 2:1, it seems the perception of a 1.3-1.4 loading is becoming more conservative. FWIW, I was borrowing a Triathlon I loaded at 1.37-1.38 when I had less than 60 jumps, and had purchased my own before I had a hundred jumps. Perhaps not adviseable, but it never did bite me, so the doom and gloom speech might be better qualified as "may" happen to someone, not "will" happen. The damage one can do to oneself at 1.1:1 isn't all that different from what one can do at 1.4:1.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[bbarnhouse 0]

Quote

But everyone who flies their canopy in an aggresive manner is at risk of messing themselves up. Not just Erica.

This is true however, her overall risk is greatly increased by:
a) lack of experience under canopy
b) increased wing loading
c) changing canopy type

edit: Ok I am going to go out on the flame here but thats ok. Let me give you the scenerio.
First off most of us are aware that I live in Eloy. Dozens of world class swoopers and canopy pilots here. I am fortunate, I get to learn from them.
They would tell anyone this. You have to learn to fly your current canopy to its max. before downsizing period.
Let me paint a scene..a true one.
Just a few weeks ago, a gentleman took a step down to a canopy that he wasnt ready for. This person had 150+ jumps. Thinking that since he could get to the ground and not get too banged up on that one he wanted to go even smaller. He was told unequivically no. Then one day when he wouldnt listen to those that had more experience than he...and was certain he could handle his canopy
he was found face down on the landing area. He was split from his buttocks to his neck wide open. The first time he hit the ground some of his bones ejected from his body and were found 10 feet away. He then was propelled through the air and hit the ground yet again. Morbid? damn straight. Reality? you bet.

[freeflir29 0]

Quote

While hardcore swoopers move farther and farther above 2:1

Actually, I have seen a lot of guys UPSIZING. I was suprised to see several 100+ SqFt canopies at the Red Bull Wings Over Cleveland. As for canopy nazis.....yeah....I had several tell me I shouldn't have been jumping a Stiletto at 130+ jumps. I managed to not hurt myself so far.