Gear checks and dirty looks....

[frazeebd 0]

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Should a mechanical altimeter be adjusted to match a second mechanical altimeter during a climb to altitude?

Perhaps I could have been clearer in my original post... from what I was taught, alti's can and will read somewhat differently, and should not be adjusted in flight... however the same brand of alti is usually what I check against and usually don't get that far off of a reading so it raised a flag... and as it turns out, that flight got cut short by clouds and we landed with the plane. On the ground the woman came up to me and showed me that her alti was reading about 500 feet. So the extra 250 would just have been difference between the two alti's, however in this case hers was off on the ground (maybe the wheel got hit or something? who knows.)

I guess this is why we check every time as soon as we sit down on the plane, right?

[peregrinerose 0]

My husband and I have identical alti's... and they fairly consistently are 300-500 feet off between 3000 and higher.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[Orange1 0]

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I bought a used mechanical altimeter a while back and had Mike G. run it through the pressure chamber before using it on a jump.

And for those without Mike G and his pressure chamber around, another option is to ask an experienced jumper to wear it as well as his regular one on a jump to check it fwiw... even though my alti was bought new, i was advised to get this done before i jumped it (admittedly i had only just gone solo at the time).

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[denete 3]

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I bought a used mechanical altimeter a while back and had Mike G. run it through the pressure chamber before using it on a jump.

And for those without Mike G and his pressure chamber around, another option is to ask an experienced jumper to wear it as well as his regular one on a jump to check it fwiw... even though my alti was bought new, i was advised to get this done before i jumped it (admittedly i had only just gone solo at the time).

Maybe that's a good idea. Mine stuck once or twice during the first "vacuuming" but was smooth during re-pressurization. So, Mike ran it through again to be sure, and things were fine. This alti had sat in a closet for a year before I bought it. If someone was wearing it to do a check, I'd ask that they watch the needle throughout the descent. That's not always practical, is it? I guess you could just train your eyes or go up with two altis and compare readings throughout the descent. At least you'd be symmetrical.

SCR #14809

"our attitude is the thing most capable of keeping us safe"
(look, grab, look, grab, peel, punch, punch, arch)

[LloydDobbler 2]

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...and to Jen:
Yep. I tell 'em that, "I don't care how many jumps you have or how many jumps the other guys has...if you see something out of whack, tell 'em. You may just save somebody's life. We ALL look out for each other." That's not only is good advice, it also gives the student a sense of empowerment...an opportunity for leading instead of simply following.

I'll say. And you'll save their life again, and again, and again (and it's really the "save that keeps on saving").

When I had about 50 jumps, one morning I had rushed to make one of the first loads. On the way up, one of the TM's looked over at me and grinned, then frowned. Looked closer, and pointed out that I had mis-routed my chest strap. In my rush (or my early-morning grogginess) I had missed it when I was checking my gear. Like a moron.

I of course thanked him a TON...and I'm now certain to give my gear a thorough check on each load, and to glance around at people around me on the way up. In the past 70 jumps or so I've caught two mis-routed RSL's that could have led to big issues if someone had tried to cut away.

So yeah. Definitely better to speak up than to not. If they're a shit-don't-stink skygod type, better to be alive with a bruised ego than to bounce with an intact one.


...and to David:
What he said. Props, man.

Signatures are the new black.

[Orange1 0]

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[When I had about 50 jumps, one morning I had rushed to make one of the first loads. On the way up, one of the TM's looked over at me and grinned, then frowned. Looked closer, and pointed out that I had mis-routed my chest strap. In my rush (or my early-morning grogginess) I had missed it when I was checking my gear. Like a moron.

I of course thanked him a TON...and I'm now certain to give my gear a thorough check on each load,

I may be a bit anal, but I've never got out the habit of getting my gear looked over by someone else before every jump.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[kschilk 0]

I seem to be one of the few (read...very few) at my dz that regularly asks for a pin-check...and I ALWAYS seek out a FJC student or recent grad, to do it. The training is still fresh in their minds and they tend to be far less complacent about it. Yeah, maybe I'm a wuss but I won't jump, without my "safety net".

"T'was ever thus."

[peregrinerose 0]

I will let a student check my gear on the ground with another jumper keeping an eye on it, but I won't ask anyone without a license to do a pin check on me on the plane.

Honestly, I rarely ask for a pin check on the plane.. the way my container is set up (Racer) I can easily feel my pin and loop myself. I do make sure it gets checked every jump. My husband jumps a Javelin, and with his long monkey arms, he can check his own pin too.

I do ask those around me, particularly newer jumpers, if they want a pin check on the ride up though.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[Jumpah 0]

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I used to be guilty of it, until the first time I read about a jump plane crash. The thought of surviving the crash and being killed by the camera flyers 9 pound camera helmet hitting my skull kinda sucks.

A highly experienced skydiver at my DZ told a story about a plane crash from long ago. During the investigation they found that one loose helmet had DNA from many sources.

[rehmwa 2]

I like offers for gear checks. But I absolutely and firmly discourage "stealth" gear checks.

Please, offer to check my gear. I'll thank you even if I don't accept the offer.

But I better know you are doing it before you even touch any part of my rig that I can't lay eyes on.

(ie. if you want to reach up and tuck in a tab on my shoulder or touch my chest strap buckle to look at routing, I don't much care if you mention it, I can tell what's happening. But leave my flaps and pins alone unless you warn me ahead of time. I absolutely hate it when I'm checking my main pin with my own fingers and encounter an extra set of hands fumbling around back there - go away.)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Jumpah 0]

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Should a mechanical altimeter be adjusted to match a second mechanical altimeter during a climb to altitude?

I asked my alti's manufacture that same question last year...they did not recommend changing the alti when in flight.

Definitely ask your manuacturer.

[kschilk 0]

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I will let a student check my gear on the ground with another jumper keeping an eye on it, but I won't ask anyone without a license to do a pin check on me on the plane.

Honestly, I rarely ask for a pin check on the plane.. the way my container is set up (Racer) I can easily feel my pin and loop myself. I do make sure it gets checked every jump. My husband jumps a Javelin, and with his long monkey arms, he can check his own pin too.

I do ask those around me, particularly newer jumpers, if they want a pin check on the ride up though.

I've always felt that ALL gear-checks should be performed BEFORE boarding the plane...but that's just me. I can't help but be curious about your reasoning, though. What does a license have to do with anything? Why would a licensed jumper with maybe only 25 or 30 jumps, be more qualified to perform a gear-check than an unlicensed jumper with, say....100 or so jumps?!

I do my own thorough (i.e. anal) gear-check before donning my rig so I'm not worried if the student misses anything. Generally, I try to have their instructor (if not yet a grad) present, so he can sign-off the gear-check on their proficiency card.

I too can feel my pins, loops, flaps, etc. while wearing my rig but without an eyes-on check, well....I prefer to leave "using the force" to Luke, Darth and Yoda.

"T'was ever thus."

[riggerrob 643]

CSPA says that students should receive three gear checks before a jump.
The first gear check occurs at the hangar, immediately after they have gotten dressed.
The second gear check occurs after the last practice exit, immediately before boarding the airplane.
The final gear check occurs a couple of minutes before exit.

Part way through the PFF program, we teach students to check their own gear before gearing up as part of the process of shifting responsibility from instructor to student.

[chrismgtis 0]

If I remember correctly we were taught to get three gear checks total. I check my gear after I sit it down when I arrive at the DZ. Then before I put it on. I don't always get someone to check it before I get on the plane, but I do try to get a check from someone when we get to around 9-10k feet.

"Stealth" checks as you call them, I can see why someone would have a problem with that. If you're going to touch someones gear you should let them know first.

If someone has a major problem, then grab them and jerk them back into the seat if you have to, to keep them from getting out of the door with a potential problem. If they don't like it, oh well. They will deal with it. You could be saving their life.

I personally know of someone that got in a hurry and misrouted his chest strap. Luckily someone noticed before he got out, because he most likely would not have survived that.

Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033
Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan

[peregrinerose 0]

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I've always felt that ALL gear-checks should be performed BEFORE boarding the plane...but that's just me.

I disagree.... when getting in the plane, moving around, particularly in small planes like a cessna, things do move. I ALWAYS re-check my gear in the plane, including a pin check. I do the same three gear checks on myself as I do on students.... two on the ground, one in the plane. I do it every jump, and have since I was a student. Partly because I'm anal and can't help it, but partly because I want to teach students through example as much as words.

I jump a Racer, it's not built the same as a student rig, I don't really want someone trying to pry off my pop-top. I probably would let a student that I had worked with before or who had done a gear check on me before (with another jumper watching) do a pin check on the plane, but I wouldn't ask someone with 10 jumps who had never seen a Racer to do so.

If I've moved around the plane a bit or in a cessna, I will ask someone to do a gear check, but 90% of the time in the plane, I check it myself. I can feel the flaps, pin, closing loop, bridle easily on my container. When I've jumped borrowed gear, I've gotten a gear check from someone else... most other containers are harder to check tactilely than a Racer.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[billvon 3,058]

>Why would a licensed jumper with maybe only 25 or 30 jumps, be more
>qualified to perform a gear-check than an unlicensed jumper with,
>say....100 or so jumps?!

Because a licensed jumper likely got some instruction in how to do gear checks. An unlicensed jumper may not have, or may have gotten taught by his CRW buddy that the riser covers have to be open before exit or whatever.

[kschilk 0]

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>Why would a licensed jumper with maybe only 25 or 30 jumps, be more
>qualified to perform a gear-check than an unlicensed jumper with,
>say....100 or so jumps?!

Because a licensed jumper likely got some instruction in how to do gear checks. An unlicensed jumper may not have, or may have gotten taught by his CRW buddy that the riser covers have to be open before exit or whatever.

That one's gettin' framed and goin' on my skydiving wall....an' I thought the comedy writers were still on strike. Good one!

"T'was ever thus."

[riggerrob 643]

What does a license have to do with anything? Why would a licensed jumper with maybe only 25 or 30 jumps, be more qualified to perform a gear-check than an unlicensed jumper with, say....100 or so jumps?!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Because a junior skydiver must demonstrate competence at gear checks before he can earn a license.

On the flip side, I do not respect unlicensed jumpers with 100 jumps.

[kschilk 0]

Well, around here....it's part of AFF. I was instructed on how to do it before my first jump and had to perform one, on every subsequent jump.

Unfortunately....licenses, certifications, qualifications, etc. for ANYTHING, are pointless....so long as people with drivers' licenses, continue to crash cars...pilots with licenses, continue to crash planes....and skydivers with licenses, continue to routinely fly their canopies into the ground.

"T'was ever thus."

[Baksteen 84]

Apparently I came very close to losing your respect, as i only got my A-license on jump 91

I was too busy having fun to concentrate on actually having my skills signed off on my proficiency card.
But that doesn't mean those fun jumps didn't teach me anything.

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[riggerrob 643]

Au contraire,

You still have my respect.
I waited until I had 50 jumps before writing my A License exam. Like you, I was too busy jumping and packing to worry about the exam until the end of the season, moving to another province, etc.

My biting comment was directed towards "hundred jump wonders" who loudly proclaim that they know more than A license holders.
My response to them is usually: "write the exam and then I will start taking you seriously."

[billvon 3,058]

>Unfortunately....licenses, certifications, qualifications, etc. for
>ANYTHING, are pointless....so long as people with drivers' licenses,
>continue to crash cars...pilots with licenses, continue to crash planes....
>and skydivers with licenses, continue to routinely fly their canopies into
>the ground.

Right. And reserve parachutes are pointless as long as people with reserves continue to die. Medical diplomas are pointless as long as anyone under a doctor's care dies.

So the next time you need surgery, will you go to your gardener? After all, for all you know, he could have more experience at surgery than the guy with all the pointless diplomas at the local hospital.

[Baksteen 84]

Ah, ok, thanks for clearing that up

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[kschilk 0]

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> Right. And reserve parachutes are pointless as long as people with reserves continue to die. Medical diplomas are pointless as long as anyone under a doctor's care dies.

So the next time you need surgery, will you go to your gardener? After all, for all you know, he could have more experience at surgery than the guy with all the pointless diplomas at the local hospital.

We have a new billion+ dollar medical facility here, in an area known as Cranberry....it's part of the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center. UPMC refers to it as a "medical center" but unfortunately, it has earned (note "earned") a different name among the residents here...."The Cranberry Corpseworks"! At first, nobody could understand why a hospital would be located within sight of a cemetery....now we know! You're gonna' have to do better than that.

"T'was ever thus."

[Kiki32 1]

Once I was having trouble packing and asked another skydiver to help and he absolutely freaked out about the size of my pilot chute. He thought it was too small to jump safely. He asked another for an opinion and he said it was fine. Sure I get 1100 ft openings but at least it works. :)

Poetry don't work on whores.