zipplewrath 1 #1 September 10, 2011 So, I have a couple of reserves in old rigs that have been packed for between 10 and 20 years. They've been stored in air conditioned spaces and just been sitting there. The question is what to do with them. I can't envision anyone actually wanting them for skydiving. I do wonder if there is anyone, or any organization doing aging tests that might be interested for any reason. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hcsvader 1 #2 September 10, 2011 Strap the rigs to Elmo Fuddpucker and let him test em out Have you seen my pants? it"s a rough life, Livin' the dream >:) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NovaTTT 2 #3 September 10, 2011 Can you provide more information on the parachutes? A 10 year old reserve that has been carefully stored is likely to be in airworthy condition. And somebody might want one or both. When were the parachutes manufactured? By whom and what model? They might be car covers or they might not be."Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #4 September 10, 2011 Yes, Please tell us more details about model, size, date of manufacture, date last packed, were they in plastic bags, round, square, diaper, free-bag, safety-stow, nickel-plated brass grommets, etc. They will probably open, but I would like to see them un-packed in controlled conditions (rubber dummy of a specific weight, specific altitude, specific airspeed, etc. ... similar to TSO drop-testing conditions) by a major manufacturer (e.g. Precision). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DBlank 0 #5 September 12, 2011 My reserve is over 20 years old and was sitting in a closet for most of that, worked fine when I needed it. As long as a rigger looks them over and gives and okay I see no issue. Although I do recall there being some rule with PD reserves and 20 years.(factory inspection or decommission IIRC)"Do you really want to take advice from the guy we call Tarmac?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverek 63 #6 September 12, 2011 QuoteAlthough I do recall there being some rule with PD reserves and 20 years.(factory inspection or decommission IIRC) 20 uses or 40 repacks, whichever comes sooner. Not years. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 279 #7 September 12, 2011 Let`s clarify this: We`re talking about testing the deployment of reserves that have been packed for 10-20 years with no repacks, correct? Some posters are talking about reserves that are getting repacked. (Unless zipplewrath jumped his rig with no repacks for 20 years.) Probably work just fine, like riggerrob says. There can be exceptions if there are certain materials that could deteriorate faster, such as if the reserve involves elastics on diapers. There might be a slight increase in deployment time in general, but that's the type of info we don't know much about. Reserve material doesn't take a lot of set or stick together. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #8 September 12, 2011 QuoteWe`re talking about testing the deployment of reserves that have been packed for 10-20 years with no repacks, correct? Hasn't this been done before? I seem to recall, maybe PD, maybe someone else in the Deland area putting out the call for long sitting reserve pack jobs, and tested them with actual deployments at terminal. I also recall the results were published, and it must have been in Skydiving mag. Again, my recollection was that all of them opened fine, all of them were within reasonable limits (maybe 300 ft?). The one that took the longest turned out to not be the oldest, but somewhere mid-pack, and even that wasn't that far off from the others. I can't say for sure what the age range was, but I'm fairly sure there were pack jobs over 10 years old, and probably upwards of 15 years as well. Anyone else remember this? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
topdocker 0 #9 September 12, 2011 My wife has her uncle's gear he was jumping up until about ten years ago. I think one is a '24 Twill in a bellymount, last packed in '67! Any takers to jump it? topJump more, post less! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 279 #10 September 12, 2011 Dave L: that's just about what I recall. Nice if someone could find the article again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zipplewrath 1 #11 September 13, 2011 Sorry, shoulda included what I knew. The oldest is a 24 foot 4 line release. Manufacturer is listed as "Steinthal". Last packed on 4-28-84. Packed in a modified Greenstar. The second is a Swift 5 cell packed in a Mirage from about '88. Well, the rig is, the last pack job is from about 2001. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #12 September 13, 2011 "Quote ... The second is a Swift 5 cell packed in a Mirage from about '88. Well, the rig is, the last pack job is from about 2001." ............................................................................ Then can we assume that the Service Bulletin has been done - at Para-Flite? Is the Service Bulletin written on the reserve packing data card? Do you weigh (exit weight) less than 200 pounds? Have ever flared a five-cell canopy before? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #13 September 13, 2011 "QuoteQuoteWe`re talking about testing the deployment of reserves that have been packed for 10-20 years with no repacks, correct? Hasn't this been done before? I seem to recall, maybe PD, maybe ..." ............................................................................ Maybe Precision ... Maybe a decade ago? I vaguely remember that they were trying to extend the inspection cycle on PEPs containing Precision P-124A canopies and wanted to collect hard data on deployment times. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 8 #14 September 13, 2011 Quote My wife has her uncle's gear he was jumping up until about ten years ago. I think one is a '24 Twill in a bellymount, last packed in '67! Any takers to jump it? top Do I have to take it terminal and land it?"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zipplewrath 1 #15 September 13, 2011 I've got about 200 jumps on a strato star. That's actually still in the Greenstar. But I don't really expect anyone to want to jump or install these reserves. I kinda figure at this point their only value is for testing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 2,191 #16 September 14, 2011 Early this summer I bought an ebay rig that had been a closet queen for 10 years. I came with a Diablo 170 and a PDR160, both packed. Judging from the rusty hardware it was not stored in a cool dry place. The Diablo came out of the bag in a brick, I had to peel it apart to hang it up. There is no way this thing would have opened, that old South African ZP fabric may as well have been coated with glue. Although it works fine now. The PDR on the other hand, stored just as poorly, and for just as long seemed like a normal repack. It didn't even seem to stay wrinkled longer than usual. I sort of wish I could have tested it first. I guess if I had just put the rig on and jumped it, I would have! KenAlways remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #17 September 14, 2011 >The Diablo came out of the bag in a brick, I had to peel it apart to hang it up. There >is no way this thing would have opened . . . You might be surprised. The forces involved during opening are pretty significant. If you could open it with your hands, odds are 120mph of wind would have done the same. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 2,191 #18 September 14, 2011 QuoteYou might be surprised. The forces involved during opening are pretty significant. If you could open it with your hands, odds are 120mph of wind would have done the same. That may be true, hard to say with out a test drop. But I will say that it wanted to maintain it's cocooned and S folded shape, like a brick. If it started to come out of that shape, I'm sure the airflow would do the rest. But I'm not sure it would have been able to start. KenAlways remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beatnik 2 #19 September 14, 2011 QuoteThe Diablo came out of the bag in a brick, I had to peel it apart to hang it up. There is no way this thing would have opened, that old South African ZP fabric may as well have been coated with glue. Most zp canopies will stay together if packed for a long period of time. I have pulled apart many of them and jumped one that was like that. The opening of a parachute is a pretty violent process and subject to a lot of force. The canopy opened fine but took a little longer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #20 September 15, 2011 QuoteQuoteYou might be surprised. The forces involved during opening are pretty significant. If you could open it with your hands, odds are 120mph of wind would have done the same. That may be true, hard to say with out a test drop. But I will say that it wanted to maintain it's cocooned and S folded shape, like a brick. If it started to come out of that shape, I'm sure the airflow would do the rest. But I'm not sure it would have been able to start. Ken Here's something to consider. Recovery parachute systems, like the ones used in space capsules and parachutes used on some jet aircraft during testing are packed under pressure into incredibly small packages and shapes using a hydraulic press, heat and vacuum to create a brick hard package that fits into a specific size and shaped container, much like a brick of freeze dried coffee. These parachutes come out and open fine,even after being packed in that configuration for long periods of time. While it very likely won't be the best opening one might have, it's still very likely to open once it is in the airstream as Bill suggested."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 2,191 #21 September 15, 2011 Ya... but I`ll bet NASA`s contractors don`t coat them with sticky silicon before the they vacuum pack and heat press them into the available space! KenAlways remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #22 September 16, 2011 Quote Ya... but I`ll bet NASA`s contractors don`t coat them with sticky silicon before the they vacuum pack and heat press them into the available space! Ken You would be surprised what goes on some of the parts in the system, everything from kevlar lines, kevlar protective tape to pyrotechnic cutters on the parachute. If some of those things can handle that type of packing and still open, a ZP coated parachute that has sat in the closet has a very good chance of opening as well."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
