GWB Staffers = Lack of imagination?

[quade 4]

I've said it before and I'll say it once again;

Every human made disaster throughout history has been the result of a lack of imagination.

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20030827-114516-5938r.htm

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Mr. Rumsfeld and other officials said it was not possible to predict that thousands of Saddam fighters would leave the battlefield unscathed, reorganize and launch a deadly insurgency that would continue 4½ months after the fall of Saddam's statue in Baghdad.

Seriously? Not possible? NOBODY talking with GWB thought there would be any resistance?

It's not as if it's unprecidented.

The freekin' French did it in WWII!

These guys must be the worst chess players -- ever.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Racenic 0]

Since the beginning of time, small armies have been able to defeat larger armies one way or another. Remember the Trojan Horse.

Rumsfeld is a fucking idiot. it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out you can hit and run with a RGB

I say kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out

Then bring our boys homes!

Nick D

The key to Immortality is- first living a life worth remembering”

[Gawain 0]

Taken by itself, that quote you cite sounds terrible, however taken in context with three items that Paul Wolfowitz candidly remarked on in the following three paragraphs, what that means is they were planning around actual units of forces defecting. Instead, they simply dissolved. They also felt that the police force would be able to retain cohesiveness and be used for civil law and order, it couldn't.

Further down the article, it also cites the adaptations they are making to deal with the situation.

And while many in my part of the country like to point and criticize from the armchair, repeatedly, progress is not shared or given equal airtime, such as (from the same article):

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Lost in the weekly casualty count of American dead is the progress being made. Officials point out that many feared disasters, such as food shortages and oil well fires, haven't happened. Schools, banks and many businesses are open.
"Our forces helped deliver more than a million tons of food and thousands of tons of medical supplies," Gen. Myers said. "Of course, there are still many challenges and much room for improvement, but there is no food or medical crisis in Iraq despite dire predictions."

Not to mention all but 14 of the "55" most wanted are either captured or dead.

Neither or these is the result of poor planning or inability to adjust.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[nigel99 568]

there is an interesting concept called assymetric warfare, which analyses the methods used when 2 sides are vastly different in capability and or culture. There is some public domain stuff on the US DoD sites which is a few years old that clearly expresses terrorism as a VIABLE way of dealing with the US's high tech war machine.

Assymetric warfare also covers the fact that different cultures (i.e. Islam) are not so worried about death as we in the west are - hence deterents have less effect. It is fairly humorous once you've read this stuff to then see as an example the UK government trying to implement an offense of "Royal Tresspass" after a guy dressed up as Osamma got into Williams party - yeah right a suicide bomber is really worried about his 18th jail term for tresspassing.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[Tonto 1]

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Rumsfeld is a fucking idiot. it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out you can hit and run with a RGB

Excuse my ignorance with regard to acronyms, but what is an RGB?

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[nigel99 568]

In video it stands for Red Green Blue - the primary colours on your video display - I think RPG

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[Tonto 1]

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- I think RPG

As in "Rocket Proppelled Grenade?"

or "Rocket Groppelled Brenade?"

Yeah... It doesn't take a rocket scientist...

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[TitaniumLegs 8]

Yes. Apparently, Iraqi resistance fighters are throwing used computer monitors and TVs at American soldiers.

Seriously, RPG = Rocket Propelled Grenade, specifically, the RPG-7. Probably the most prolific anti-armour/rocket ever made.

(>o|-<

If you don't believe me, ask me.

[mikkey 0]

And you would think they had learned a lesson in Vietnam when it comes to how difficult it is to fight a guerrilla war and thought it through....

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When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

[Racenic 0]

sorry it's late I meant RPG

Nick D

The key to Immortality is- first living a life worth remembering”

[Tonto 1]

Thanks for the article.

It brought back memories.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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I've said it before and I'll say it once again;

Every human made disaster throughout history has been the result of a lack of imagination.

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20030827-114516-5938r.htm

Quote

Mr. Rumsfeld and other officials said it was not possible to predict that thousands of Saddam fighters would leave the battlefield unscathed, reorganize and launch a deadly insurgency that would continue 4½ months after the fall of Saddam's statue in Baghdad.

Seriously? Not possible? NOBODY talking with GWB thought there would be any resistance?

It's not as if it's unprecidented.

The freekin' French did it in WWII!

These guys must be the worst chess players -- ever.

Hmmm...isn't that what a group of colonials did in the 1700s?

I think you should be able to go back and look at some of my war related posts on here - I believe I mentioned that as one of my concerns during GW's relection campaign, oops, I meant Gulf War 2. And I have no military background. When ever one of the warmongers were touting how easy this would be, my only retort would be "let's see what happens in 6 months, 1 year, 5 years, etc" I bet this doesn't go as easy for them as we believe.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[kiltboy 0]

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Hmmm...isn't that what a group of colonials did in the 1700s?

Yes they did. Similarly the British leadership at the time were also out of touch with the population of the colonies.

David

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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Hmmm...isn't that what a group of colonials did in the 1700s?

Yes they did. Similarly the British leadership at the time were also out of touch with the population of the colonies.

David

Interesting side note here - I was talking to a High School student yesterday about possibly attending the college I work at. He expressed that he felt the education system was out of touch with the world, esp with history classes. His concern was that most colleges do not have a GenEd history class besides "western civiliation." He said "with the way the world is today, maybe we would have a better understanding of whats happening over there if they taught more about the middle east and asia history."

Nice to see the younger generation still cares.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[jdhill 0]

Most folks who know me , know me as being fairly right leaning, but in this instance I find myself agreeing with many of the critisisms of the current SoD.

I have begun to tire of old Rummy and his experimentation with our forces while in harms way. The time for experimentation is in training, not in combat.

The prosecution of this conflict on a political level is pathetic, IMO, and Rummy's "more with less" attitude is largely to blame.

"Not possible to predict..." I must throw the bull shit flag on that one. When I was a young 2LT working in the S2 (Intel) shop of an Infantry battalion we knew it was a possibility, and we trained for it... when I was a slightly older CPT, and an operations officer in an intelligence battalion, we knew it, and planned for it.

It happened because we did not have sufficent resources on the ground to follow the lead elements north, namely the 4th ID sitting of the coast of Turkey. Had they been in the theater they would have been able to secure POWs instead of releasing them with a pat on the head saying, now you guys don't come back and fight now, ya hear." Lead elements would have been able to move faster because their rear elements and lines of communication would have been secured. And by moving faster, prevent the drifting away of significant units on the battlefield, troops that are now fighting against us on their terms instead of ours.

It's not all Rummy's fault, afterall he was handed a military after 8 years of Clinton (and if you don't believe that had an impact, your wrong, those were the years that I served, I know the impact it had first hand)... But part deciding when to go to the fight, is knowing when you have the right resources in place... and we went to the fight short handed, because Rummy thought we could do more with less, and still win. "Major" combat might be over, but we have far from won.

Just my opinion.

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[kiltboy 0]

Sounds like someone that will do well in college.

David

[sunman 0]

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I say kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out

Seriously dude, grow up.

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Then bring our boys homes!

Why would we want to bring them homes? Wouldn't it be expensive to ship all that lumber and drywall to Iraq? Wouldn't it just be easier to bring them home?

Sorry... couldn't help but make fun of your typo.

[Jayruss 0]

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"Third, and worst of all, it was difficult to imagine before the war that the criminal gang of sadists and gangsters who have run Iraq for 35 years would continue fighting, fighting what has been called a guerrilla war," Mr. Wolfowitz said

This seems so odd, of course there would be guerrilla war, hello. Did they really think that someone that spent 35 years of their life fighting in a cause they believed in and profited from would just give up. These gangsters have everything to loose from NOT fighting, of course there was going to be guerrilla war!

__________________________________________________
"Beware how you take away hope from another human being."
-Oliver Wendell Holmes

[jdhill 0]

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cause they believed in and profited from

I would have a hard time identifying a "cause" that they are fighting for... the profit motive is right on the money (no pun untended) though.

J

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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These gangsters have everything to loose from NOT fighting, of course there was going to be guerrilla war!

Well, theer wasn't sauppose ot be if you had listened to the GWB administration prior to the start of the war.

The Coalition of the Willing....I still have to laugh at this.....would just swoop down on Iraq and everybody would lay down their arms and walk away, because everybody knows how almighty the US is and these arabs would just be scared and stop fighting.

Then the US troops would triumphantly find the WMDs and give the justification that GWB had so arrogantly proclaimed he knew were there.

Then the Iraqi people would form a little government after GWB's wishes and everybody would live hapily ever after.

At the time suggesting that anything else would happen meant you were against GWB and obviously supporting the terrorsits.

It just makes me laugh that Rumsfeld would then proclaim that they could have never foreseen that the Iraqi forces would dissolve, regroup and continue fighting for what they believe in and profit from. On top of that, Americans keep forgetting that they are really not liked much in the middle east.

How arrogant can you get??????

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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I would have a hard time identifying a "cause" that they are fighting for... the profit motive is right on the money (no pun untended) though.

Plus the fact that maybe they just don't like Americans coming in and invading their country and telling them they really should do things differently.

[Jayruss 0]

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cause they believed in and profited from

I would have a hard time identifying a "cause" that they are fighting for... the profit motive is right on the money (no pun untended) though.

J

I wasn't associating with a one given cause per say, even profit can be their cause. Or most likely I would consider their cause a common hatred for Americans. A cause doesn’t have to be organized. But you got the point.

__________________________________________________
"Beware how you take away hope from another human being."
-Oliver Wendell Holmes

[Tonto 1]

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Plus the fact that maybe they just don't like Americans coming in and invading their country and telling them they really should do things differently.

Well - That does tend to piss people off. Go into their country, blow shit up, kill people - it's upsetting.
I'm not a great Nationalist, but I do feel an affinity for the land I live in. I'd fight to defend it. (My last war was more about ideoligy than land..)

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Well - That does tend to piss people off. Go into their country, blow shit up, kill people - it's upsetting.

Unless the invading country is the USA, because then everybody is happy, lays down their arms and starts celebrating. It would be unfathomable to think differently......

[lawrocket 3]

Anyone in the military knows that there is one simple rule of military planning.

NO PLAN SURVIVES FIRST CONTACT

Also, when the problems happen, there is another thing. If you have a problem, identify a potential solution. It looks like they are trying to do that.

Sure it's a cluster f*#&. That's why the U.S. Military is so good. War is a cluster f*#& and so's our military.

My wife is hotter than your wife.