RustyOats 0 #1 October 1, 2011 Is there any reason you wouldn't want to fly an Optimum Reserve as a main? Recently got the chance to use one and really liked it. I know it's F-111 so it wears out faster but it's also a lot cheaper than a main and I don't usually get more than 50 or 60 jumps a summer so it would last years. I want a big docile 7 cell but there aren't really any 7 cells bigger than 230 so I was kind of thinking why not an Optimum? Any thoughts? Thanks Russ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #2 October 1, 2011 Reserves usually do not come with a bridle atachment point. Unless you can buy a used demo from PD, you're going to have trouble getting your hands on an optimum (or other reserve) you can use as a main. They will open much harder than a modern canopy at terminal, so for your body it's probably not a good idea to jump a reserve as a freefall main. If you want big and slow, there are other options. Icarus makes the omega up to 259 sqft or maybe bigger if you ask, Aerodyna has Triathlon 250 and 260 so there's your modern 7cell slow canopies. You might also look into a student type canopy like an Aerodyne Solo, PD Navigator or Icarus Equinox, something like this could work, or you could even buy an accuracy canopy like a parafoil 252 or bigger for a main if you really want a 7cell (might have to put a big slider on it tho). ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,989 #3 October 1, 2011 >Is there any reason you wouldn't want to fly an Optimum Reserve as a main? No bridle attachment. You'd lose your dbag after every jump. >I want a big docile 7 cell but there aren't really any 7 cells bigger than 230 so I was >kind of thinking why not an Optimum? Get a Super Raven 282. It's an F111 7 cell reserve with a bridle attachment point on it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkwing 5 #4 October 1, 2011 It would be easy to put a bridle attachment on it. The opening shock might not be comfortable in the long run, but it seems very likely that packing technique and/or a new or modified slider could fix that too. I'm sure that PD has a good idea how many jumps it would take to degrade the fabric and the canopy performance. I wonder how many jumps they let their demo reserves get? Someone knows the answer to that. It would be a conservative estimate for the number you could expect. -- Jeff My Skydiving History Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 279 #5 October 1, 2011 Flight Concepts also makes large F-111 canopies - as used by some demo jumpers. But Dragon2 is right - there are some other options for large modern canopies. Even if in general the availability of large canopies is lower in the used and new market. One could also look at your overall situation and see whether a 230 might be actually be OK down the road, whether your preferences might change. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #6 October 2, 2011 The Optimum is not made of F-111 (0-3 cfm). It is made of a PD proprietary low bulk material that is also very strong. The ribs and bottom skin of the Pulse main are made of the same material.Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Electronaut 0 #7 October 2, 2011 Also, be aware that the Optimum reserve that is sold for reserve purposes (as opposed to the Optimums that PD has in their demo fleet) have uncoated Spectra linesets that will not wear as well as Spectra on say, a Sabre 2. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #8 October 2, 2011 Quote I know it's F-111 so it wears out faster but it's also a lot cheaper than a main and I don't usually get more than 50 or 60 jumps a summer so it would last years. I want a big docile 7 cell but there aren't really any 7 cells bigger than 230 The ideal wing loading for classic accuracy is about .7 pounds per square foot so such canopies come in big sizes (past 300 square feet). EIFF Classic, PD Zero, Jalbert Parafoil. The same thing applies to BASE jumping with tight landing areas. Flik/Fox, Mojo, Troll, etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
in2jumping 0 #9 October 2, 2011 QuoteIs there any reason you wouldn't want to fly an Optimum Reserve as a main? Recently got the chance to use one and really liked it. I know it's F-111 so it wears out faster but it's also a lot cheaper than a main and I don't usually get more than 50 or 60 jumps a summer so it would last years. I want a big docile 7 cell but there aren't really any 7 cells bigger than 230 so I was kind of thinking why not an Optimum? Any thoughts? Thanks Russ Call PD and ask them if they will put a bridle attachment and bigger slider on one and sell it to you as a main canopy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,354 #10 October 2, 2011 Hi Jeff, QuoteI'm sure that PD has a good idea how many jumps it would take to degrade the fabric and the canopy performance. A number of years ago I bought a used demo PDR from them. During our discussions it was my understanding that they do a complete inspection & porosity test whenever a demo is returned to them. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mchamp 1 #11 October 2, 2011 Quote The Optimum is not made of F-111 (0-3 cfm). It is made of a PD proprietary low bulk material that is also very strong. The ribs and bottom skin of the Pulse main are made of the same material. Thank you! Finally someone corrects this material which many people seem to have been incorrectly informed about the right terminology/fabric regarding this material For info regarding lift ticket prices all around the world check out http://www.jumpticketprices.com/dropzones.asp Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nelyubin 0 #12 October 2, 2011 Cheap and quality of the dome. http://rupara.ru/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=40&Itemid=44&lang=ru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #13 October 2, 2011 The PD guy I talked to yesterday said that in Deland they often get a run on Optimum demos anytime a bigway project is coming up. The video camera jumpers all want them so they can pull out quickly once the bigways start to break up. According to PD, once you put a bridle attachment on either one of their reserves, you void the TSO. But I don't see why a master rigger shouldn't be able to do that for you, or you could always inquire with PD about buying a used, or even new demo model. PD's in business to make money. If there's enough interest, I don't see why they shouldn't offer a version of the Optimum (or a hybrid version, ala the Pulse, in 7 cells) for sale. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yarpos 4 #14 October 3, 2011 bigger than 230, f111, 7 cells....arent you describing a BASE canopy? seen at least one person here jumping a bagged BASE canopy in large Talonregards, Steve the older I get...the better I was Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hellis 0 #15 October 3, 2011 Quotebigger than 230, f111, 7 cells....arent you describing a BASE canopy? seen at least one person here jumping a bagged BASE canopy in large Talon Why put it in a bag? There is a tailpocket on BASEcanopys for a reason. I have seen a video on youtube where a tailpocket got stuck inside the bag resulting in a cutaway. Much easier and better to just stow the lines in the tailpocket and pack it as a CRW canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,439 #16 October 3, 2011 I actually considered doing exactly the same thing when the Optimum was really new (I demo'd one at hte first opportunity). I found it to be fun to fly, and also to do exactly what I expected when I pulled the toggle, flared, or anything else. Not exciting, but dang I was favorably impressed. At the time, I figured I didn't want to see just how many jumps I could put on the new fabric, only to discover it's really better for 300 jumps that 1500... But I've been looking ever since for a damaged Optimum 150 that I could turn into a main. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hellis 0 #17 October 4, 2011 QuoteQuotebigger than 230, f111, 7 cells....arent you describing a BASE canopy? seen at least one person here jumping a bagged BASE canopy in large Talon Why put it in a bag? There is a tailpocket on BASEcanopys for a reason. I have seen a video on youtube where a tailpocket got stuck inside the bag resulting in a cutaway. Much easier and better to just stow the lines in the tailpocket and pack it as a CRW canopy. Found the video. http://youtu.be/JntccxoeYls Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yarpos 4 #18 October 4, 2011 dunno....you would have to ask him.... watching him get a large base canopy into a normal skydive rig, the bag seemed to provide more control to do the job...which was quite a squeeze. He was wingsuiting with it at the time.regards, Steve the older I get...the better I was Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #19 October 4, 2011 Quote Quote The Optimum is not made of F-111 (0-3 cfm). It is made of a PD proprietary low bulk material that is also very strong. The ribs and bottom skin of the Pulse main are made of the same material. ..................................................................... Thank you! Finally someone corrects this material which many people seem to have been incorrectly informed about the right terminology/fabric regarding this material ..................................................................... If you really want to be picky ...F-111 was a specific brand of low-porosity fabric that was only made during the early 1980s, by Goerge Harris Corporation. After Geroge Harris died (during the mid-1980s) other fabric mills tried to manufacture similar calendarized fabric (Perseverance's "Blue", Gelvenor's 0-3 cfm, Soarcoat,e tc.) ... with varying degrees of success. We struggled through a "mystery bulk" phase during the late 1980s. All of those fabrics started as MIL SPEC rip-stop nylon (tear strength 40 pounds) then was pressed between hot rollers to squeeze the yarn into half-circle cross-sections, reducing the porosity. Performance Designs' Optimum fabric starts with oval yarn. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,354 #20 October 4, 2011 Hi Rob, QuotePerformance Designs' Optimum fabric starts with oval yarn. It would be interesting to know how the weaving mill controls the oval during the weaving process so that it stays properly oriented. I've been involved in R & D with other products with non-symmetrical raw materials and do know that controlling them during the fabrication process can be very, very difficult. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #21 October 4, 2011 Quotedunno....you would have to ask him.... watching him get a large base canopy into a normal skydive rig, the bag seemed to provide more control to do the job...which was quite a squeeze. He was wingsuiting with it at the time. Speaking from personal experience with a container that's not too undersized it's not a big deal to free pack (using the tail pocket) a 0-3 CFM BASE canopy into a skydiving container. Apart from leaving riser parts hanging out the CRW guys don't even have any problems with ZP lightnings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #22 October 5, 2011 "Quote... Apart from leaving riser parts hanging out the CRW guys don't even have any problems with ZP lightnings." ....................................................................... Humorous thread drift .... What do you call a Canopy Formation skydiver who has risers, dive loops, toggles, etc. hanging out of his container? Answer: a slob! Since the mid-1990s, Rigging Innovations, Jump Shack, etc.have built custom containers specifically for CF. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LloydDobbler 2 #23 October 5, 2011 Quote I actually considered doing exactly the same thing when the Optimum was really new (I demo'd one at hte first opportunity). I found it to be fun to fly, and also to do exactly what I expected when I pulled the toggle, flared, or anything else. Not exciting, but dang I was favorably impressed. At the time, I figured I didn't want to see just how many jumps I could put on the new fabric, only to discover it's really better for 300 jumps that 1500... But I've been looking ever since for a damaged Optimum 150 that I could turn into a main. Wendy P. +1 to this list. Demoed one when they first came out, even took it to terminal. Found that it opened quickly & positively, but didn't slam me...and that it was a fun-yet-predictable canopy to fly and land. Got to fly mine once earlier this year, and again just this past weekend under different circumstances...and remembered that thought again. Signatures are the new black. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ljwobker 2 #24 October 18, 2011 I *absolutely* agree that Optimum's fly great. I have about 15 demo jumps on them as mains, and two reserve rides on them. That said, you shouldn't have too much trouble finding a main canopy that has the flight characteristics that you're looking for. Spectres open very consistently and are 7-cell designs not much different than the Optimum... lightly loaded Aerodyne Pilots (when built with ZPX) are very easy to fly and pack relatively small... the PD Pulse has bottom skin fabric like the Optimum and is really easy to pack.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites