Dating in the US

[diablopilot 2]

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That seems to be true in most cases nowadays. I've gotten very cynical about relationships in the last few years. I guard my heart very well and don't let people get too close. But then along came a guy that kinda got past those walls and got close. When i finally realized he liked me (at least i thought he did), i loosened up that hold on my heart. Had a wonderful time, then BAM - kicked to the curb i go. It makes me wonder why i bother anymore. I'm still not sure it's worth it to go through the pain of losing someone just to experience the brief happiness til it ends....

Ditto. Just substitute the word he for she, and you got it.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[wmw999 2,577]

I thought the most telling quote in some ways was this:

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None of these 20-somethings are hopeful. Sex, they said, comes so early in a relationship that the false intimacy it produces becomes pain and humiliation - and cynicism - when the relationship ends, as it too often does

I have been dating off and on since getting a divorce a few years ago (well, mostly off), and this is something that makes a difference. Before I was married, sex was easy and pretty safe (before AIDS and herpes).

And yes, once you've done the dirty with someone, you can't really go back, even if you want to just ease off a little for awhile to re-evaluate, and not necessarily break up. It sets up so many expectations, and the thing about a close relationship is that you tend to lose sight of the fact that you don't necessarily have the same expectations and needs.

Knowing someone for a few years gives you more insight and acceptance of them and trust for the relationship. You know that the bad day is them, and not a sign that the relationship is about to end.

But hey -- I'm going to a "pre-dating" event tonight I'll post details. It should be interesting. I'm not looking for a relationship particularly, but I need to expand (well, develop) my social circle.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Vallerina 2]

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Hey... I didn't say a long-term relationship couldn't happen.. I just don't put that kind of pressure on things. If the hope and expectation isn't there, it is much easier to relax and enjoy yourself. If it's relaxing and fun, it is much more likely to be good and longer term.

I completely agree with this! Starting out thinking, "This is the one!" never seemed like a good idea to me. Starting out thinking, "This person is really cool, and it would be fun to hang out with them and get to know them," is my kind of thing. It's not assuming that things will go bad right at the start and not trusting someone enough; it's just realizing that you don't know the person very well (even if you were friends before, you still don't know what they're really like in a relationship) and that there's so much to get to know.

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[ladyskydiver 0]

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Hey... I didn't say a long-term relationship couldn't happen.. I just don't put that kind of pressure on things. If the hope and expectation isn't there, it is much easier to relax and enjoy yourself. If it's relaxing and fun, it is much more likely to be good and longer term.

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I completely agree with this! Starting out thinking, "This is the one!" never seemed like a good idea to me. Starting out thinking, "This person is really cool, and it would be fun to hang out with them and get to know them," is my kind of thing. It's not assuming that things will go bad right at the start and not trusting someone enough; it's just realizing that you don't know the person very well (even if you were friends before, you still don't know what they're really like in a relationship) and that there's so much to get to know.

I don't think many people start a relationship out thinking "This is the one!" I think they do (or at least I do) evaulate that individual as a potential long term relationship.

Going into a relationship evalutating whether "He likes to eat potato chips in bed" is this something that could/could not be handled is not putting pressure on a relationship. It's just an honest evaluation of what will work for you.

Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile.

[Guest]

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I know that most guys my age are not wanting any responsiblity.
Kathryn

And why should they? Why would any man in his right mind willingly take on all that burden? What's in it for him?

Color me cruel here, but pray, tell me: Where is it written that it's a man's duty or obligation to take on another man's leavings, including his offspring, and all the heartache and turmoil that comes with them (to say nothing of the empty wallet)? Can it perhaps be that the man in question already has enough responsibility of his own, without being compelled to place that of others on his shoulders?

Perhaps it's an aspect of social change that has been overlooked. It appears to me as though Atlas is shrugging.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[Guest]

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Yes, but you can do a search of actual women liying in court in MA, (i guess this happens everywhere), and they still get the benefit of the doubt and the so called victims advocates).

Or have you seen any society formed to protect men who have lost all and are totally ruined (some are even battered too by their giant wifes...)

Have you?

"But in the town it was well known
when they got home at night
Their fat and psychopathic wives
would thrash them within inches of their lives!"

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[freeflygoddess 0]

So what you are saying is that I have to live my life all alone because I was wrong into thinking that having kids with the man I had loved and was married too was wrong because I should have seen it coming that as soon as the army sent him to Germany he was going to party and cheat on me and blah blah blah. That is all my fault yep so I and my kids should suffer now because of it and be alone without any hopes of someone loving us. My ex has nothing to do with our kids and that seems to be all my fault too somehow, no matter how much I pled with him and to his parents that he should spend time with them. You make my faith in men so much better and stronger now...

[Guest]

That was not the gist of my comments. I'm sorry your circumstances are unfavorable, and I hope they change for you soon.

However, you are the one who must come to terms with your situation, and your remarks appeared to bear the somewhat presumptuous attitude that some other man, who in no way bears any of the responsibilty for your situation, is somehow duty-bound to take it on, and provide for you and your offspring.

I repeat, what's in it for him? What's his reward for taking on this burden? Where's the incentive?

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[freeflygoddess 0]

I never said that they should I was just pointing out that it is hard to find a guy who wants to even start a relationship with is all. I understand why. I def. don't start a relationship with anyone without telling them about my kids first. It is in no way for to them or myself or him for that matter. I do feel that if after they know about them and still want to date me then they have to take that resposibility. However, I do tell them about the kids right when I meet someone, I never introduce my kids to him until I feel that our relationship will actually go somewhere. To be fair to everyone. As far as inentive goes, well all you have to do is just look at me, and then if you are lucky enough to get under my skirt then you will have no worries there....lol....sorry too much bitterness had to lighten it up a bit, but I do have to say that I am good and being the goddess that I am I have no complaints there either.

[bbarnhouse 0]

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but I do have to say that I am good and being the goddess that I am I have no complaints there either.

Geez can I be a domestic goddess ? I doubt that I will ever attain "freeflygoddess" stature..but I can cook, sing and dance!

[juanesky 0]

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but I do have to say that I am good and being the goddess that I am I have no complaints there either.

Geez can I be a domestic goddess ? I doubt that I will ever attain "freeflygoddess" stature..but I can cook, sing and dance!

Sure, where do you want your altar build?

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[skybytch 273]

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I do feel that if after they know about them and still want to date me then they have to take that resposibility.

Why? I was with my ex from the time my son was 2 until he was 18. He wasn't my son's father and I never asked him to take on ANY responsibility in raising my son.

Did this make my life harder? Maybe. But when he did things with or for my son I knew it was being done because he wanted to, not because it was expected of him.

[Guest]

A mature and responsible man won't have nookie at the top of his list. I grant you, it's a factor and it's important and it's part of human nature, but it's not the only thing.

And I'm sure you're very pretty, but I wasn't really remarking on the physical side of things. Actually I was being more philosophical...waxing esoteric, as it were.

Perhaps I should have made myself clear.

What is the modern, mature, thoughtful man's reward? What does he get in return for giving up his freedom, his economic security, his autonomy, his livelihood (once he's locked in he can't just pull up stakes and go where the best work / money is)?

Nookie? Is that all he gets?

What about a steady, reliable partner who'll stick with him when he's in desperate straits? Will she make sure her offspring are respectful and obedient? Will our society tolerate such an arrangement anymore?

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[Guest]

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I knew it was being done because he wanted to, not because it was expected of him.

My point EXACTLY!

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[SBS 0]

The result is that both sexes are out to protect themselves.

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That's human nature...it's just sad that we have to do it in relationships too...

I was talking about this with my gf the other day and also with my ex's new bf. It's sad that people blame the other sex...men are pigs, women are psycho, etc. etc. etc... The fact is that we are all to blame and if we could all realize that and relax, be real, and communicate with one another, we all would be much happier, and be able to cut out 90% of the bullshit that comes along with relationships.

-S

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I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...

[freeflygoddess 0]

Geez, I try to lighten things up in here and get b*tched at even more....OK...I never said become their father I said be responsiable. I was just joking about the sex part, I am good, but it was a joke. I want a man who wants to be with me in the understanding that I have kids, so he can't ignore them and treat them like shit, he has to respect me and them as well as we will respect him. I am a very dependable girlfriend who does not believe in cheating at all and def believes in being faithful and loving and communicating with eachother instead of telling your friends what is wrong and getting advice that way, because the only way to work things out is together. I also feel that there should be no abuse of any kind between anyone. That is my incentive I would hope that should be true for everyone. Sorry for trying to joke around abit to lighten things up. I guess everyone is very bitter now a days with the opposite sex, and rightly so, but it is only when you can let it all go and the other one dose too and you are both ready and at the right place will you find hppiness, but until then all you can do is see what you don't want the next time around, and what you do want.
Kathryn

[Guest]

Victim-culture. It's too easy to assign the blame for one's shortcomings on the actions of others.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[freeflygoddess 0]

WAIT! I changed my mind, the perfect guy for me will buy me lots of jump tickets and keep me warm at night and I will cook him dinner and make sure that he has clean jump clothes. yep true bliss....lol...

ok for those who are bitter still this is a joke to lighten things up not to start another rag on Kathryn trend...lol...

Kathryn

[Jayruss 0]

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WAIT! I changed my mind, the perfect guy for me will buy me lots of jump tickets and keep me warm at night and I will cook him dinner and make sure that he has clean jump clothes. yep true bliss....lol...

ok for those who are bitter still this is a joke to lighten things up not to start another rag on Kathryn trend...lol...

Kathryn

Humm what type of food do you like to cook?

__________________________________________________
"Beware how you take away hope from another human being."
-Oliver Wendell Holmes

[livendive 8]

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Perhaps I should have made myself clear.

What is the modern, mature, thoughtful man's reward? What does he get in return for giving up his freedom, his economic security, his autonomy, his livelihood (once he's locked in he can't just pull up stakes and go where the best work / money is)?

Reward for what?! How about he gets the same thing she gets? If you approach relationships with the attitude of "what's it going to cost me," you're going about it all wrong. He's not giving up his freedom, economic security, autonomy, or livelihood any more than she is, regardless of how "modern, mature, and thoughtful" he might be. Even if he does sacrifice a thing or two, it's not like it's a "gift" she's taken from him to use for her own purposes. What if, instead of children, she's got a more promising career than his that dictates they stay put? Would you have the same issues?

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Nookie? Is that all he gets?

Is that all she gets?

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What about a steady, reliable partner who'll stick with him when he's in desperate straits?

Will he be the same?

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Will she make sure her offspring are respectful and obedient?

That gets at the primary purpose of dating, i.e. exploring what one likes and doesn't like about a person. Nobody is "the perfect mate", they'll all have aspects we dislike. The burden in dating is determining which of those negatives are (and will remain) tolerable, and which are unacceptable. A person's approach to children may well be the deal-killer, but again, that could be on either side. Rest assured that if I was dating a woman who treated my daughter like crap, I'd ensure they didn't have to see each other anymore, and it wouldn't be my daughter who got "kicked to the curb."

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Will our society tolerate such an arrangement anymore?

What are you talking about? Dating/marrying a person who has children from a previous relationship is a hell of a lot closer to the norm now than it was say 50 years ago.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[SkydiverRick 0]

cuz it's fun! A relationship doesn't have to be forever or even exclusive for it to be good. I don't consider every date an audition for becoming someone's life partner..

[bbarnhouse 0]

Ya know...its all about choices...thats why we have both chocolate AND vanilla ice cream

[skybytch 273]

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...thats why we have both chocolate AND vanilla ice cream

Vanilla is nice... but it can get a bit boring.

[bbarnhouse 0]

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Vanilla is nice... but it can get a bit boring

Well that is why we can put sauce on it

[Rebecca 0]

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Vanilla is nice... but it can get a bit boring

Well that is why we can put sauce on it

Oh yeah! It's all about the sauce!

Mmmm....saaaauuuucce...

you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk?