skydiverek 63 #51 October 19, 2011 Quotehas the collins lanyard ever helped anyone? And if it has, was it an actual riser break and not a person using cutaway cables with the incorrect lengths? Did the riser break happen on opening at an altitude where an RSL/skyhook was even "necessary" to begin with? Riser broke (RSL side) on Tandem jump approx 15 years ago. Collins lanyard did its job there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #52 October 19, 2011 QuoteQuotehas the collins lanyard ever helped anyone? And if it has, was it an actual riser break and not a person using cutaway cables with the incorrect lengths? Did the riser break happen on opening at an altitude where an RSL/skyhook was even "necessary" to begin with? Riser broke (RSL side) on Tandem jump approx 15 years ago. Collins lanyard did its job there. Thanks for the info. Do you know/recall the failure mechanism of the riser? White loop ripped out? White loop broke due to wear? Failure of one of the ring attachments? Some other failure? /edit to add: what I'm getting at is that the collins lanyard has been involved in some real, but admittedly bizarre, failure modes and I'm trying to get a feel for what failure modes it's trying to help with. If it's solely to combat worn out or incorrectly manufactured risers and or cutaway cables then no thank you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jjudd 0 #53 October 19, 2011 used is definetly best for a while too imo if your going to jump alot as you will progress and out grow it with time. skyhook equiped rigs and rigs with options come up at good prices on here too Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crotalus01 0 #54 October 20, 2011 Hey Jerry, Hackish is correct - it depends on when you Jav was manufactured as to whether it can be fitted with a skyhook - I really wanted a Collin's lanyard for my rig so I looked into the whole skyhook option but was told by J that my rig was too old - something about the harness design IIRC. As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,363 #55 October 20, 2011 Hi 01, Go re-check my post; had a typo so I edited it. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
koppel 4 #56 October 20, 2011 Quote Also, and this is an honest question as accusatory as it sounds, has the collins lanyard ever helped anyone? And if it has, was it an actual riser break and not a person using cutaway cables with the incorrect lengths? We had an incident in Tasmania, Australia a year or two back where an RSL equipped talon had the left riser break firing the reserve out and into the mess above. He got lucky! A Collins Lanyard (RSL on right riser of course then) would have made all the difference. Quote Did the riser break happen on opening at an altitude where an RSL/skyhook was even "necessary" to begin with? if only we could always determine what height we were going to be at when things went wrong....I like my canopy... ...it lets me down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #57 October 20, 2011 QuoteQuote Also, and this is an honest question as accusatory as it sounds, has the collins lanyard ever helped anyone? And if it has, was it an actual riser break and not a person using cutaway cables with the incorrect lengths? We had an incident in Tasmania, Australia a year or two back where an RSL equipped talon had the left riser break firing the reserve out and into the mess above. He got lucky! A Collins Lanyard (RSL on right riser of course then) would have made all the difference. Thanks for the info. Do you know/recall the failure mechanism of the riser? White loop ripped out? White loop broke due to wear? Failure of one of the ring attachments? Some other failure? QuoteQuoteDid the riser break happen on opening at an altitude where an RSL/skyhook was even "necessary" to begin with? if only we could always determine what height we were going to be at when things went wrong... Again, you don't hear about riser breaks too often so I just wanted people to speak up about instances they knew of and hopefully gather details about them. It's my theory that riser breaks/releases are caused by incorrectly manufactured risers, incorrectly assembled three rings, incorrectly routed white loops, incorrectly sized cutaway cables, and incorrectly maintained gear. Notice a pattern there? I don't like the idea of a solution to "ground problems" that has a side effect of introducing or contributing to new "air problems." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
koppel 4 #58 October 21, 2011 the locking loop had been bartacked perpendicular rather than along the loop leading to only a small number of stitches holding it in place. Also the geometry was not good leading to higher than normal load on the loop. The fact that the risers were in the region of 10 years old and had done quite some jumps could be used to show quite how resistant the system can be to poor construction etc but that eventually things will catch upI like my canopy... ...it lets me down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MariusM 0 #59 October 21, 2011 Quote I don't like the idea of a solution to "ground problems" that has a side effect of introducing or contributing to new "air problems." What kind of air problems are you talking about? Anything specific or just the risk because system is more complex? I know that usual RSL sometimes is undesirable (e.g., fast spinning malfunctions), but as it was already mentioned skyhook is not exactly the same as RSL. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mchamp 1 #60 December 2, 2011 Think again when deciding to purchase your rig with skyhook option or not.....watch this guy at 3:18 in the video.....Skyhook SAVED this CP competitor's life! Low cutaway under 1000ft http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=c0GcJxwM_pw#t=3m16sFor info regarding lift ticket prices all around the world check out http://www.jumpticketprices.com/dropzones.asp Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ShcShc11 0 #61 December 2, 2011 wow thanks for the thread. I'm in the exact same situation. I want to purchase the Wing, but no skyhook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #62 December 2, 2011 QuoteThink again when deciding to purchase your rig with skyhook option or not.....watch this guy at 3:18 in the video.....Skyhook SAVED this CP competitor's life! Low cutaway under 1000ft http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=c0GcJxwM_pw#t=3m16s He was high enough for the reserve to open without a skyhook. If safety is a high priority, having a canopy that isn't so easy to spin itself into linetwists is a better bet (larger canopy). I know, then it wouldn't win CP competitions...People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dks13827 3 #63 December 2, 2011 Looked like a riser released or failed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #64 December 2, 2011 QuoteLooked like a riser released or failed. I don't think so, the right leading edge can be seen folding under just before it spun.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mchamp 1 #65 December 2, 2011 QuoteQuoteThink again when deciding to purchase your rig with skyhook option or not.....watch this guy at 3:18 in the video.....Skyhook SAVED this CP competitor's life! Low cutaway under 1000ft http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=c0GcJxwM_pw#t=3m16s He was high enough for the reserve to open without a skyhook. PERHAPS he was (wouldn't like to find out), but if you were in his position wouldn't you be glad with the extra altitude that you saved by using a skyhook?For info regarding lift ticket prices all around the world check out http://www.jumpticketprices.com/dropzones.asp Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 279 #66 December 2, 2011 Quote Low cutaway under 1000ft http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=c0GcJxwM_pw#t=3m16s Nice! With it being breaking news at a major event, at least 3 threads have picked it up. In the Canopy Piloting forum there's: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4231969; Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #67 December 2, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteThink again when deciding to purchase your rig with skyhook option or not.....watch this guy at 3:18 in the video.....Skyhook SAVED this CP competitor's life! Low cutaway under 1000ft http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=c0GcJxwM_pw#t=3m16s He was high enough for the reserve to open without a skyhook. PERHAPS he was (wouldn't like to find out), but if you were in his position wouldn't you be glad with the extra altitude that you saved by using a skyhook? Just saying the skyhook was not needed to save his life.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Joellercoaster 6 #68 December 2, 2011 QuoteJust saying the skyhook was not needed to save his life. ...and that none of the people in this thread, unless I am much mistaken, are CP competitors jumping prototype canopies that might suddenly malfunction during manoeuvres they are likely to perform close to the ground. Ie., you are not, nor are you ever likely to be, "in his position". That video is entirely irrelevant to the discussion. [edit: I have a Skyhook. I would happily buy a new rig without one if I liked other things about it. I would, however, certainly purchase a standard RSL on a Wings if that was what I was buying.]-- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ShcShc11 0 #69 December 2, 2011 In terms of performance and malfunctions probabilities, what are the difference between a RSL and a Skyhook? Just how much altitude does the skyhook "save"? Is RSL more prone to giving reserves line twists or more malfunctions? Body position, etc...? I think a fear would be to have severe line twists in the reserve because of the RSL... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skydivesg 7 #70 December 2, 2011 Check it out for yourself. http://www.unitedparachutetechnologies.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=85&Itemid=70Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #71 December 2, 2011 Quote In Reply To In Reply To In Reply To Think again when deciding to purchase your rig with skyhook option or not.....watch this guy at 3:18 in the video.....Skyhook SAVED this CP competitor's life! Low cutaway under 1000ft http://www.youtube.com/...=c0GcJxwM_pw#t=3m16s He was high enough for the reserve to open without a skyhook. PERHAPS he was (wouldn't like to find out), but if you were in his position wouldn't you be glad with the extra altitude that you saved by using a skyhook? Just saying the skyhook was not needed to save his life. You can keep holding onto this train of thought if you like, but the jumper in this video was very clear - the skyhook saved his life. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ShcShc11 0 #72 December 2, 2011 QuoteCheck it out for yourself. http://www.unitedparachutetechnologies.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=85&Itemid=70 I definitely read/watched all the benefits about skyhooks. But its a lot easier to digest when it comes from an unbiased source in order to form an informed decision. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deyan 36 #73 December 2, 2011 Quote Just how much altitude does the skyhook "save"? Is RSL more prone to giving reserves line twists or more malfunctions? IF it works as a MARD ( which so far in many occasions is not the case ) It will save you between 100 and 150 ft. On the other hand if you watch this video you will see that some rigs can get your reserve out as fast as MARD will do. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=il735eAFyw8"My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #74 December 2, 2011 Quotethe jumper in this video was very clear - the skyhook saved his life. The jumper making that assertion doesn't necessarily make it true. It looked like there was altitude for a normal deployment. Of course it is hard to tell on the video just how high the cutaway really was. Maybe the jumper is admitting that they cutaway very quickly (justifiably) without having the ability to fire the reserve right away, whether due to using 2 hands on the cutaway or it just being hard to locate. In that case, then any RSL would have served the purpose of pulling the reserve. Knowing that it would have taken a significant amount of time for them to find their reserve handle might get someone to say that the thing that pulled it for me saved my life.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #75 December 2, 2011 QuoteQuote the jumper in this video was very clear - the skyhook saved his life. The jumper making that assertion doesn't necessarily make it true. Like I said, you're free to hold onto that idea for as long as you like, despite whatever evidence to the contrary. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
