Long snivel on a Sabre2 210

[smears 0]

I've been jumping a Sabre2 210 and load it about .75. Lately it seems to snivel for longer and longer each time I open. On my last jump I was doing a 4 way, we decided to break at 4000 and I would pull right then. We broke a little above 4, I did a 360 to make sure no one was around, waved off and pulled. The canopy wasn't completely open until 2000. Is it the way that I'm packing that makes it snivel so long or something else? Any help would be awesome.
Thanks!

[Floats18 0]

Yo! If you burned 1k feet during your 360 then it would make sense to me.

I'm jumping a sabreII 150 loaded at about 1.17 and it regularly takes 700 feet to open.

If you're nervous about it you could always do a solo, take it to terminal, and pull at a nice round number (5k, 4k, 3k) and stare at your altimeter through the whole process.

Do a nice solo high H+P and play with your new canopy!

If you're not comfortable with it, have someone who's more experineced with a sabreII jump yours and they may be able to tell you if there's something wrong w/ the trim.

How many jumps are on the canopy?

--- and give them wings so they may fly free forever

DiverDriver in Training

[DougH 270]

I don't find it hard to believe that you easily burnt up 1000+ feet before you took the center.

Knowing other new jumpers, and how I was at 50 jumps am invisioning something like this:
oh every on is tracking... (by this point 4k came and went)
lets do a 360... (by this point 3.5k came and went)
ok let me wave (hello 3k, good bye 3k)

Then you pitch and get a 700 foot opening and wonder why you are so low.

Since we don't know how you are packing it, it would be pretty tuff to determine if your packjobs are the problem, all over the internet.

Are you pushing the nose deep into the pack job, pulling most the of the slider towards the nose, how many rolls on the tail?

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[smears 0]

I didn't think about the fact that I would burn up about 1000 feet turning and waving off, but that's a good point.
I usually push the nose in about half way and don't roll it. That's another question I have...Some people tell me to roll the nose and others tell me not too. I put the slider equally in all 4 sections.

[DougH 270]

When I pack my friends saber 2 I do nothing to the nose, I let it stay where it is hanging after I let go of it with my knees. I don't think the manual call for any rolling or stuffing.

If you are taking the center try to stick to the plan. When I am shooting video and I take the center I ensure that I am pulling on time unless some one is on top of me.

It is important that every one else is tracking, and that you give a good wave off, and that you ensure that no one is above you. However I think the 360 is over kill and if you end up pulling around the same level as every one because you wasted time you are reducing speration and putting the other jumpers at risk if some one has an off heading opening.

Personal I think you should be tracking with every one else if it is a small jump and your not shooting video.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[peregrinerose 0]

Why didn't you track? Even on a small formation, everyone should be tracking away. Pulling in place is reserved for video. If you wanted to pull high, plan your break off and track accordingly... break off at 5500 instead of 4000. If the people you were jumping with insisted on a lower break off, you need to find new people to jump with.

Like everyone else pointed out, you didn't have a 2000 ft open, you pulled lower than you planned to, and thus were under a fully inflated canopy later than planned. Spend a little time thinking about your break off procedures, about your pull altitudes and definitely be more altitude aware!

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[hackish 8]

I had some trouble getting the original sabre in the 210 size to open fast enough. I read PD's packing instructions and they recommended rolling the cells (cameraman pack job) and leaving the centre nose cell on the outside without tucking it in. This made a fair difference on the consistency. So I suggest downloading their instructions and verifying that you're packing it as they say.

-Michael

[peregrinerose 0]

Keep in mind a Sabre and Sabre2 are two completely different canopies. What works for one isn't necessarily right for the other.

It doesn't sound like a packing issue here though, sounds more like an altitude awareness hiccup.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

I had some trouble getting the original sabre in the 210 size to open fast enough. I read PD's packing instructions and they recommended rolling the cells (cameraman pack job) and leaving the centre nose cell on the outside without tucking it in.

I would think that rolling the nose would slow down the opening....

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[DougH 270]

You would be right, if you're comparing it to the opening you would get by doing nothing at all.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

Why didn't you track? Even on a small formation, everyone should be tracking away. Pulling in place is reserved for video. If you wanted to pull high, plan your break off and track accordingly... break off at 5500 instead of 4000. If the people you were jumping with insisted on a lower break off, you need to find new people to jump with.

Like everyone else pointed out, you didn't have a 2000 ft open, you pulled lower than you planned to, and thus were under a fully inflated canopy later than planned. Spend a little time thinking about your break off procedures, about your pull altitudes and definitely be more altitude aware!

Very much worth repeating. So there you go.

The general rule is break-off 1500 ft above desired pack opening altitude.

Edited to add: Tracking is a life-saving skill. You should be practicing it on every jump aiming for the flatest, fastest track you can muster.

As for packing. Sabre 2 doesn't need any nose rolling.
Given a general rule-of-thumb of 5-6 tail rolls, you will find that the slider placement at the nose will affect your opening speed. More slider nose out, more slowly the opening. Less out will be faster.

All bets are off on the Sabre.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[peregrinerose 0]

Thanks, Pops
I agree about the Sabre2 nose rolling thing, not necessary and if done even a little lopsidedly will give lovely off heading openings. Damn, I can't wait til my new Sabre 2 gets here... couple more weeks..

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[lekstrom10k 0]

I dont know how many jumps you have on yours I have 680 on my original line set {I have new ones coming}. Mine would do that too. Check the lower steering line from the cascade at the top to the brake loop .It should be 105.625. It will probably shrunk to 100 or 101, you can have a rigger replace that only it should get you through another 150 jumps. I had 2478 on my Sabre 210 before my Sabre11 -210. I alternate rolling 4&4 to no roll and like rolling better. Check full toggles up and see if the tail is tipping down .No slack usually means the line has shrunk before measuring even

[Floats18 0]

Yo Pereginedumbass

From her original post, it seems that pulling in place was part of the plan. I've pulled in place before (before I met you) when it was part of the plan. I wanted more time to get used to my canopy.

Working on tracking is important, and you know that I love to track, but if you plan to have one member of a 4 way dump in place I don't think its that big of a deal (especailly if she was worried about how long her canopy takes to open or if she wanted extra time to get used to it/play). AND as long as you clear it with groups exiting after you. Woohoo SAFETY!

Plan the dive, dive the plan. I made that saying up by the way, probably because I rule. People say it all the time, no big deal.

HA and before you flame me/delete this post... Jen is one of my best good friends and I'm allowed to antagonize her!

--- and give them wings so they may fly free forever

DiverDriver in Training

[popsjumper 2]

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[peregrinerose 0]

Yo, Floats18asshole

I know it was part of the plan, it just wasn't the wisest plan in the world, my comment was only to improve on the plan to begin with. The loss of altitude awareness is not a good thing, the habit of not tracking is not a good thing either. I'm all for playing with a new canopy, hell, I'll be doing it pretty soon (counting the weeks til my pretty new Sabre 2 is here!!!)

Call me, by the way, I have a phone number for you that you might want Besides, I have one hell of an exciting AFF jump to tell you about. It was well beyond sporting.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[DougH 270]

Here is my take:

If you want to pull high to practice canopy then you should be doing a hop and pop or a high pull.

If you are pulling high out of a rw jump because you are uncomfortable tracking or you are uncomfortable with your new canopy then you shouldn't have been on that jump in the first place.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[Floats18 0]

Ah HA, now we're adding variables.

If someone is unconfortable tracking then I think a 1 on 1 tracking jump would be the most valuable thing to do. Pulling center won't make the need for tracking go away.

As far as saying that pulling center is unanceptable for someone who wants to play with their friends before learning new canopy skills... I'm going to have to agree to disagree with you guys. Bump yourself from the jump, load or bump me in the face with your altimeter... what ever makes you feel better!

I DO AGREE that the best way to learn your canopy is to do several high hop+pops, however. I am a big fan of that hot action. Ask Jen, she knows I love my canopy in a completely wrong sort of way.

(btw, peregrinedumbass flows a lot better than Floats18asshole)

Edit 'cuz I realized my 1st response made me sound like a pompous skygod asshole... my bad!

--- and give them wings so they may fly free forever

DiverDriver in Training

[peregrinerose 0]

Can I really bump you in the face with my Altimeter??
I don't understand why a person can't have the best of all worlds... this is a new jumper who needs to get into good habits. They already have issues with altitude awareness, at least based on this jump in question. The last thing a new jumper needs is to get in bad habits (taking center to pull). All they needed to do is plan break off a bit high, so they can still track, still open high, still have fun with their friends, still have extra canopy time and still be safe. Everyone's happy this way.

I can absolutely verify that Floats18 does have a freakishly unnatural relationship with his rig. Just last week, He, another friend, and I went out to dinner. This nut case actually had his rig (her name is Rosemary, by the way), sitting at the table with us. I had to ask for a table for 4 just to accommodate Kyle's relationship with his rig

I can also verify that he works hard at canopy control and loves high hop 'n pops to get that extra canopy time to bond with his canopy. He especially likes it when other people bump end cells with him

(btw at least you are calling me peregrinedumbass instead of 'my rigga' now )

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[Floats18 0]

You're a wierdo

--- and give them wings so they may fly free forever

DiverDriver in Training

[peregrinerose 0]

Shouldn't a greenie be stepping in on your string of personal attacks against me now

(I'm kidding... really!)

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[Jeff.Donohue 0]

I jump a Sabre2 210 with similar wingloading. It pretty consistently opens in 500 (brisk) to 700 (smooth) feet from when I actually pitch (as others have pointed out, time may have elapsed from when you checked your alti and when you actually pitched). If you're consistently going more than that, check how much you're rolling the nose.

[tbrown 26]

Have you had a look at your pilot chute lately ? If you're using a kill line, you need to know that the constant friction of all the openings is causing your kill line to shrink, just like your suspension and brake lines. You may quite simply not be getting enough puff into your pilot chute to extract the bag off your back to line stretch.

Even when people completely forget to set their kill line, they will often still get a very slow, thousand or so foot opening. When a p/c starts to go, I've been told it will exhibit warning signs like flaky slow openings a couple times before it quits on you altogether.

Ask a rigger to have a look at your p/c. Look for damage to the stitching at the tapes at the base of the mesh, where it meets the bridle. A good p/c should still have some kill line between the apex and the base, even in the collapsed condition. My own rigger showed me all this stuff last year when he told me I needed to replace my kill line or there would soon be trouble at opening time.

You might just need a new kill line and if that's the case, you'll be delighted at how much nicer your openings will be.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[in2falling 0]

Do not push the nose into the pack job or pull the slider out over the nose. You may also want to call PD and look into getting a smaller slider. I did this for a stilletto I used to own and would use the smaller slider in the winter and large one in the summer.