Muenkel 0 #151 July 2, 2003 QuoteWell, I've got to say both you and sinker are refreshing. I appreciate your honesty and your views. People who preach a higher moral code but don't try to live up to it themselves tick me off. At least you guys are honest and not the way too typical "holier than thou" types. Kevin, I want to thank you for saying that. It has been particularly hard for Catholics to defend their faith in light of what our priests have done and have covered up. The thing is, what they have done is NOT the faith. Nor my posting in the Tit-ee Bar thread my faith. I think the mistake that is made is that they perceive "religious" people as judgemental. Well, in a lot of cases that is true. However, the true teachings of the Catholic faith is that we are prohibited from judging another and that all judgement comes from God and God alone. In fact, if I was to pass judgement on another, I would be committing a worse sin than the one I was judging. I believe I will stand before God alone someday and have to expain and atone for all my sins and ONLY my sins. I will not answer for Hitler's or anyone elses...just mine. And believe me, there are many. But luckily we have the sacrament of confession, which I need to use quite often. Chris _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #152 July 2, 2003 QuoteThere are as many options as there are women out there. Being ugly and being smart are not anything like synonymous. See above post. I was trying to get her to select one and express an opinion. I think it is pretty well impossible to exhaust all options. In philosophy class, there was always the old "lifeboat" live/die scenarios. They were unrealistic at best, but they did stir discussion. Same technique. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FliegendeWolf 0 #153 July 2, 2003 Yes, I've found this to be the case with Muenkel and sinker as well ... and it's genuinely refreshing.A One that Isn't Cold is Scarcely a One at All Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andy2 0 #154 July 2, 2003 boobies rule --------------------------------------------- let my inspiration flow, in token rhyme suggesting rhythm... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #155 July 2, 2003 QuoteNo, I think that he's saying that if two people just want to have sex, and they do, it's not even poor judgement (provided they're careful blah blah.) Nothing wrong with being treated like an object if that's what you want - and that applies to far more than sex And I counter that if that's all they want, just to fuck like rabbits for the sake of fucking, then they certainly have the RIGHT to do so, but that doesn't ipso facto make it right in a moral sense. Just b/c you don't think it is demeaning to the human person doesn't mean it's not demeaning in reality. It goes fundamentally to what sex is and what it's for. It is my opinion that pleasure accompanies those activities that persons engage in. It helps to signify an act as good. Eating is very pleasurable. But pleasure is not it's primary end. It is secondary. Sure, we eat things sometimes strictly for pleasure, but in the end, it isn't good for us, i.e. b/c of weight gain, health probs, etc. For someone to eat only for pleasure and not for the nutrition and sustenance it provides, say be eating then purging, we call that disordered... Same with sleep. It's profoundly pleasurable, provided there aren't problems like insomnia, etc. But the pleasure that comes with it is secondary to it's primary end, the health and restoration of the person. So too with sex, in my opinion. It is the most pleasurable thing known to humans. Yet as with the other biological function, how can pleasure be it's only end? So what, pray tell, could they be? In my opinion, they are two fold... bonding and babies. Most obviously, sex is for procreation. No explanation necessary. However, why does the woman's desire for sex perdure even when she is not in estrous, when procreation can not possibly take place? Well, bonding, union, one-ness. Not "fucking." Union. The giving of oneself to another in the most pure, sublime, complete way possible. And the pleasure comes (no pun intended) as a natural fruit of the act. Unfortunately, this view is hardly espoused in our society at all any more. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #156 July 2, 2003 I appreciate that Steve. Thanks. Chris _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FliegendeWolf 0 #157 July 2, 2003 No prob. Sorry for misspelling your last name. A One that Isn't Cold is Scarcely a One at All Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #158 July 2, 2003 I think we're getting our posts mixed up... my long response about hypcrosy was aimed at your post to Muenkel where you linked a search of his contributions to the tittee bar thread. I really appreciated your comments you later wrote that you think Muenkel and I are a nice change to the staleness that too often accompanies people who say do as I say not as I do... thanks for the clarification -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #159 July 2, 2003 QuoteI think the mistake that is made is that they perceive "religious" people as judgemental. Well, in a lot of cases that is true. If a person truly believes that someone is hurting themselves in some fashion, then they want to tell them. This is the case in religious issues. They truly believe that they are helping or protecting the other person. If you see a bus about to hit someone, you yell a warning. This is the case with religion. However, the disagreement is always about what is a danger or a moral issue. Some people tell you not to skydive and some tell you not to have premarital sex. They are just trying to help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FliegendeWolf 0 #160 July 2, 2003 QuoteSo too with sex, in my opinion. It is the most pleasurable thing known to humans. Nope. That would be skydiving. Sex is a close second, though. A One that Isn't Cold is Scarcely a One at All Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
txblondie 0 #161 July 2, 2003 QuoteQuoteThere are as many options as there are women out there. Being ugly and being smart are not anything like synonymous. See above post. I was trying to get her to select one and express an opinion. I think it is pretty well impossible to exhaust all options. In philosophy class, there was always the old "lifeboat" live/die scenarios. They were unrealistic at best, but they did stir discussion. Same technique. Okay, so sink or swim/live or die? With the options you gave, I would probably SINK and DIE!!! Just a personal choice... ***************************************** Blondes do have more fun! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #162 July 2, 2003 yeah, I almost forgot! But I've had sex a lot more than I've skydived... 35 jumps versus.... who the hell knows how many carnal jumps... thanks for the kind words above man, I really appreciate it. It's nice to know that I'm not discarded carte blanche simply b/c I am a member of a particular religion or b/c I have particular beliefs. It's far too common to be dismissed that way. It's a shame that so many people who have the same beliefs have come across as judgemental assholes... they've fucked it up for those of us who aren't... -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #163 July 2, 2003 QuoteIf a person truly believes that someone is hurting themselves in some fashion, then they want to tell them. This is the case in religious issues. They truly believe that they are helping or protecting the other person. If you see a bus about to hit someone, you yell a warning. This is the case with religion. However, the disagreement is always about what is a danger or a moral issue. Some people tell you not to skydive and some tell you not to have premarital sex. They are just trying to help. I very much like what you said. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Genn 0 #164 July 2, 2003 Quoteboobies rule Yes they do!!!!! And I have two! (OMG-HS has taken over my brain!) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #165 July 2, 2003 hey! I like boobies too! I actually like them TOO much... is that possible?? "Must repent!!" -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #166 July 2, 2003 QuoteStill here, just waiting for the opportunity to jump back in; you know, the bait and all. All the questions that I posed, or examples that I gave, were related to this post that you made. I was just trying to give you that opportunity. I guess I asked the wrong questions. All I've heard is "women can be smart and good-looking", but everyone knows someone like that personally, so it was not a surprise. If someone says "I do/don't like HS". ok. I wanted to know your reasons. It is funny, all those posts and I still have no idea why you think that. Personally, I find HS boring. I don't think he is funny, so I never watch. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steel 0 #167 July 2, 2003 I choose "D"...ya know, the one where you can be beautiful AND intelligent. Tanto ---------------------------------------------------- what about secret option "E" where you can be beutiful, intelligent, a skydiver and a lipstick lesbian.If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
txblondie 0 #168 July 2, 2003 QuoteI choose "D"...ya know, the one where you can be beautiful AND intelligent. Tanto ---------------------------------------------------- what about secret option "E" where you can be beutiful, intelligent, a skydiver and a lipstick lesbian. Uh oh, am I caught? j/k, I don't wear lipstick...haha! ***************************************** Blondes do have more fun! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
txblondie 0 #169 July 2, 2003 QuoteQuoteI choose "D"...ya know, the one where you can be beautiful AND intelligent. Tanto ---------------------------------------------------- what about secret option "E" where you can be beutiful, intelligent, a skydiver and a lipstick lesbian. Uh oh, am I caught? j/k, I don't wear lipstick...haha! Okay, seriously, though, not a lesbian..."bi-curious" perhaps... ***************************************** Blondes do have more fun! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #170 July 2, 2003 QuoteJust b/c you don't think it is demeaning to the human person doesn't mean it's not demeaning in reality. and the flip side is equallyy true. what you find demeaning actions or behavior does not mean the it IS[/] in reality demeaning.. a great many questions of morality are VERY culturally specific what you veiw as the "primary reasons" for existance & and basic biological functionas are not nessesarily shared by others, your idea of what eating, sex etc are "for" are based in your own religions and personal beliefs and morality, and only have meaning inside that context. To others outside the structure you have adopted your views & behaviours could be seen as immoral as well..____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #171 July 2, 2003 oh really? eating is not primarily for nutrition and sustanance? PRIMARILY? Again, I maintain that there are principles about human existance and behavior that are universal and not merely confined to the dictates of ones cultures and/or religions. Take the practice of giving clitorectomies to young women in some cultures... in their culture it is not amoral, not wrong. However, I maintain that it IS wrong, inspite of what their culture says. It is wrong to maim someone in such a way. Always, everywhere. It is universal. It is wrong that people in India are starving while cows are afforded the status of a deity! It is an incorrect belief. Yes, I said it. Some beliefs are wrong. Truth is universal. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #172 July 2, 2003 QuoteTruth is universal. Whose truth? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #173 July 2, 2003 i guess circumcision is immoral? piercing? tattoos? truth is universally dependent on the viewer. that cow might be your great grandfather...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #175 July 2, 2003 if it's universal it applies to everyone. the eating disorder is a good example... it's wrong (not as in evil and sinful, but wrong as in against the natural law) for a person to eat food in order to experience the pleasure of eating but then to regurgitate it and purposely avoid the nutritional value of it. It violates the naturally intended end of the act of eating. It is rightly called a disorder. others... everyperson deserves to be treated with respect and dignity. inflicting bodily harm on people is wrong. treating people as objects instead of persons is wrong... the list goes on and on... -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
