Depression thread

[rhino 0]

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I'm all for homeopathic remedies, but I doubt very much that a few sessions of smiling in the mirror would've stopped my cousin from hanging himself.

I worry very much that someone in a similar position to him might see these suggestions and decide, no - he doesn't need profesional help. he'll just smile in the mirror a few times, and that'll fix everything. I worry he'll do this, and he too will end up hanging from the ceiling in his college dorm.

And I worry that people take the easy way out most of the time. I mean people that know better. I am worried that millions of people in the world will stay on these pills and lose their coping skills that God gave them.

Their are a TON of books out that hit on HOW BAD it can be taking Prozac for example, especially when it isn't even close to being necessary. One is Prozac Nation. I worry that people are dulling their senses. Dulling their lives and when the problem grows beyond the medications effect SOMETHING REALLY BAD happens. You see they need to be attacking the Root Cause and changing FOCUS.

Granted a small percentage JUST NEED meds. Nothing is wrong with that.

I criticize those who take them, do nothing but defend them, and don't even take time out of their day to fix the root of their problem. Themselves. Taking the meds won't likely heal you in most cases.

Are you going to take them forever?

Or learn to do things with your own abilities. Learn to regulate you own brains chemicals.

I am all for therapy if one needs it. I'm all for the right med if someone needs it. I AM NOT however for the easy way out.

Rhino

[Michele 1]

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non-psychiatrist MD who knew a woman was depressed, but did not prescribe medication for it. She killed herself shortly thereafter -- and she was several months pregnant.

How awful. For everyone involved.

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ideally you get a specialist but that's not always practical or possible.

Agreed.

I also think that non-psychiatrists overprescribe the drugs. That was my point, perhaps made badly. I think there are a lot of people who take them because they're "trendy". I had someone I spoke with once who told me "Man, I had a rough day, so I went home, took a Prozac, and felt much better"...which tells me one of three things - they are either taking valium, they are lying, or they really just don't know how SSRI's actually work.

It's that sort of prescription which I object to.

Sinker brought up some interesting points about the situation you cited. And again I think it's horrible...

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[rhino 0]

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I think there are a lot of people who take them because they're "trendy

I've never thought of it exactly that way but very well said!!

Rhino

[sinker 0]

everyone knows there are side effects to medications. Older tricyclic medications were very easy to overdose on. MAOIs (mono-amine oxidase inhibitors) are also potentially dangerous and interact w/ many modern drugs. MAOIs are seldom used anymore. Tricyclics are also not used as much as they used to given the incredible advances with drugs like paxil, prozac, zoloft, celexa, wellbutrin, etc.
While these drugs have side effects, they are generally very mild. That is partially why they are so popular! Esp. the SSRI's... their side effect profile is incredibly tame!!! So... for people that need meds (yes, Rhino, there are many who NEED them), it is a mercy that they have powerful mood elevators that are non-addictive (none of them I mentioned are) and are generally VERY VERY Safe.

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[rhino 0]

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it is a mercy that they have powerful mood elevators that are non-addictive (none of them I mentioned are)

Interesting.. Just about everyone I know that is on them is addicted..

[sinker 0]

and how do you define addition, rhino? nothing about modern antidepressants causes chemical dependency. so, tell me what symptoms of addiction all of these people you know are demonstrating?

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[nathaniel 0]

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Why don't you mention the short term and long term side effects.

thats an easy one...I think it's inappropriate to use this forum for prescribing medicines and treatments. decisions on treatments should be between doctors and patients, not by interested laymen such as you or me.

nathaniel

My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski?

[ChrisM8 0]

This is Muenkel and I am currently breaking the promise I made to not log on as a different person as I am temporarily banned. Please don't hijack this thread and ask me why because it is not the reason I am here. This will be my one and only post. This thread is too important to me to ignore. I also realize that this post may be removed.

One issue that has not been addressed here is Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. I suffer from this due to two hidious events that happened to me at age 9...only two months apart. Only one person here knows what I am talking about. Each of these events could have very easily ended my life, either by murder or suicide. It is now 30 years later and they still effect every aspect of my life. I did the whole therapy thing, which definitely helped. But I have to be honest, Prozac gave me my life back. That's right, a life that was taken from me at age 9. I now refill my prescription with a smile instead of shame. Trust me when I say, no amount of smiling in the mirror would have helped me. My point is, there are many, many people out there in the same boat as me. Please don't judge someone who has to take medication to really live their life. Why would anyone want to deny a person such as myself who was an innocent 9 year old a chance at a full life to become everything they dreamt they would become. You'd be surprised of the intelligence level of most people on these types of meds. We have so much to give to this world, but were/are unable due to the selfishness of some other human being.

I'm writing this, risking a re-banning because this touches too close to my heart. It is vital people understand this issue, because one day it just may hit too close to home.

Understanding is the key to compassion.

Chris

[freeflir29 0]

I get really depressed when I run out of beer..... Does that count?

[b1jercat 0]

In before the lock.


jerry

[juanesky 0]

Sorry to hear about that Chris.

Blue skies and catch u in orange.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[Luna 0]

Chris,

Obviously I don't know what you went through, so don't take this personally if it doesn't apply. What you said is just a good jumping off place to make my point.

The reality is that we control our reactions to events (begrudgingly I will grant that there are very few exceptions to this, to avoid further argument on the point). Events don't control our lives, our reaction to the events does. And we DO control our reactions. For a good example, look at the Vietnam POW's, the guys who spent literally YEARS locked up in these tiny cells, being beaten and tortured on a daily basis, with barely enough food and water to survive, isolated from other people...basically one of the worst experiences that anyone could possibly go through, and it lasted for YEARS! Some of these guys didn't make it out at all. Some of them came out and killed themselves. Some of them ended up in psych wards. And some of them...I'll give two specific examples here, Gerald Coffee (spelling?) and Charlie Plumb...came back and said that it was the best thing that had ever happened to them, and went on to lead amazing lives without being adversely effected by what they went through. And Charlie at least had more to deal with when he got back because his wife had divorced him and married another guy...she was one of the reasons he made it through the torture!

Nelson Mandela is another great example. He goes through all of those years of imprisonment, and when he gets out, he not only isn't angry, he tells his captors that he'd like to run the country TOGETHER with them!!

Want yet another great example, one that involves a horrible childhood because perhaps as a child you wouldn't have the tools to do this, so you think it wouldn't apply? Read Oprah's story sometime.

My message is simple. ANYTHING is possible. Most people vastly underestimate the true power of this greatest gift that God has given us...our mind. It has power beyond measure. Learn to use it to your benefit. Believe that it can and will create the chemicals that you need when you need them if you train it properly. Look at all of the people who have recovered from things like life-threatening cancers, paralysis, etc. when no doctor on earth would have given them a chance. How? By using their mind effectively. I will state my belief again: The minute that you say that any thing is not possible, you have handicapped yourself beyond what you can imagine.

I'm walking a marathon to raise money for the Leukemia & Lymphoma Society. Click Here for more information!

[Tonto 1]

....tic. That's what I'm thinking. No one has complete power over the mind. Who's flying the plane while you're piloting the pilot? Tried to stop your liver working? Give it a go. Power of the mind, you know. Nothing more. ....tic.

It's the year of the Pig.

[flyhi 24]

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I get really depressed when I run out of beer

Depression is merely anger without the enthusiasm.

Shit happens. And it usually happens because of physics.

[bobsled92 0]

I'm glad you shared that.
P.T.S. is a frightful thing that attacks at day and asleep. If the wrong Meds are given, you feel that it should have worked and your future is bleak, when in fact new things need to be tried and counciled.
I miss enjoying a few things that now make me flinch and go onto a state of anxiety or "knee jerk" physical defense to offence reactions (as if being attacked).
I was told part of it was when I was shot, the lightning trouble was from a work/accident.
Neither ever occurrd to me with what and when. I thought I was just getting weak spirited. Now I hold on with 2 hands tightly and pray.

_______________________________
If I could be a Super Hero,
I chose to be: "GRANT-A-CLAUS". and work 365 days a Year.
http://www.hangout.no/speednews/

[wmw999 2,532]

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My message is simple. ANYTHING is possible. Most people vastly underestimate the true power of this greatest gift that God has given us...our mind. It has power beyond measure. Learn to use it to your benefit.

And some people don't have the tools to take advantage of it. Not because they're lazy, or stupid, or want to take the easy way out. They don't have the tools.

Try telling a blind person to just see. Try telling someone who grew up in a home with no enrichment, and in schools with no resources, to just do well. It's possible, but it's a hell of a lot harder for some people.

Letting them use tools that others might not need simply makes living possible. Otherwise, all of the energy is spent existing. And even if you can eventually learn to overcome whatever makes medication necessary, maybe, just maybe, the cost of doing so in time and energy lost that could be devoted to other things just isn't worth it.

For some people, it's taking the easy way out. But for others, it's taking the way that maximizes their potential. And anyway, it's their life.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Luna 0]

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My message is simple. ANYTHING is possible. Most people vastly underestimate the true power of this greatest gift that God has given us...our mind. It has power beyond measure. Learn to use it to your benefit.

And some people don't have the tools to take advantage of it. Not because they're lazy, or stupid, or want to take the easy way out. They don't have the tools.

Try telling a blind person to just see. Try telling someone who grew up in a home with no enrichment, and in schools with no resources, to just do well. It's possible, but it's a hell of a lot harder for some people.

Letting them use tools that others might not need simply makes living possible. Otherwise, all of the energy is spent existing. And even if you can eventually learn to overcome whatever makes medication necessary, maybe, just maybe, the cost of doing so in time and energy lost that could be devoted to other things just isn't worth it.

For some people, it's taking the easy way out. But for others, it's taking the way that maximizes their potential. And anyway, it's their life.

Wendy W.

I agree. You have to have the tools, and sometimes that just means finding out that they are out there. But I see everyone denying the possibility in totality. That's BS. That's burying your head. The reality is that is IS possible. The question is, can you make it happen. Don't deny the possibility, be honest with yourself.

I'm walking a marathon to raise money for the Leukemia & Lymphoma Society. Click Here for more information!

[Luna 0]

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....tic. That's what I'm thinking. No one has complete power over the mind. Who's flying the plane while you're piloting the pilot? Tried to stop your liver working? Give it a go. Power of the mind, you know. Nothing more. ....tic.

You really believe that? Have you heard of free divers? They are able, using ONLY their minds, to slow their heart rate to nothing more than a few beats per minute, slow their breathing to match, and are able to dive using NO equipment to depths that boggle the mind. Rent the movie The Big Blue. It tells the story (obviously somewhat embellished) of Jacques Mayol, until recently the world-record holder in free diving. Here is a short overview: "He maintains this state by the intensity of his concentration, which keeps him in an almost constant meditative condition. In this mode, he transcends ordinary human limitations, for he becomes enabled to achieve great feats through altered physiology. The deeper he dives, the slower his heartbeat becomes, and his blood distribution concentrates almost entirely in his brain. (This also happens in porpoises.) His best friend, himself a highly evolved athlete, dies in an attempt to match Mayol's feat because he hadn't reached the level of consciousness required to transcend the normal limits of the body." This was all documented by wiring him up to check his vitals while he was diving. So, it is possible.

Open your mind to the possibilities. Yes, you can even kill yourself with nothing but the power of your mind. Happens ALL the time unconsciously...and can also easily be done consciously. Try studying yoga. Try reading up on the Lamas. Just because you don't believe it doesn't make it untrue. The Truth is The Truth, and you can deny it, but that doesn't change it.

I'm walking a marathon to raise money for the Leukemia & Lymphoma Society. Click Here for more information!

[Tonto 1]

"Open your mind to the possibilities. Yes, you can even kill yourself with nothing but the power of your mind. "

Go on - prove it to me. If you're not here tomorrow I'll take that as a yes.

Kill yes. To destroy is easy. But that is the path of the dark side, young Jedei. I read "the NInja" and saw all the Star Wars movies. I use "The force" when I teach AFF, but a good briefing and adequite air skills work too.

So lets take something simple - Like diabeties. Why not just get your body to regulate your insulin production instead of getting all those shots? Power of the mind, you know.

Have you tried using the power of the mind to overcome your unmentionable phobia? Or dealing with the ridicule you'll face if you mention it? When you get these things right, then you can start telling people about the power of the mind. Right now you and Rhino look like a pair of bullies kicking quads out of their chairs and exhorting them to use the power of the mind to walk.

Let it be. If people want to go homiopathic, religious, medicated etc - just let it be. There is no right and wrong - and it's not your or my place to change an over medicated society. The dude who gets the silver medal at the olympic games would have loved to "just try a bit harder, dear." and get the gold.

We're all just doing the best we can on this planet. Fat people - even those carrying 2 or 3 extra pounds - would love to learn these "power of the mind" tricks and not eat those extra fries. Nancy Reagan said it. Just say NO. Dumb people would love to just use that power to be a little smarter - and I'm trying to use it to be a little bit more patient - and failing.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[Luna 0]

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"Open your mind to the possibilities. Yes, you can even kill yourself with nothing but the power of your mind. "

Go on - prove it to me. If you're not here tomorrow I'll take that as a yes.

That was really uncalled for and not funny. Am I personally attacking you?

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So lets take something simple - Like diabeties. Why not just get your body to regulate your insulin production instead of getting all those shots? Power of the mind, you know.

Yep, I believe that this is possible. You just need the right tools. (God, I'm a real freak if I believe that, huh? )

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Have you tried using the power of the mind to overcome your unmentionable phobia? Or dealing with the ridicule you'll face if you mention it? When you get these things right, then you can start telling people about the power of the mind.

Yes, I have, and yes I am, and I used to barely be able to leave my house because of it, and now it doesn't bother me nearly as much. And if we use your rules for having the qualifications to talk about solutions here, most of the people on your side wouldn't be allowed to talk about it either, because most of them have not found a way to get over their depression effectively either. You don't know the changes that I have made in my life.

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Right now you and Rhino look like a pair of bullies kicking quads out of their chairs and exhorting them to use the power of the mind to walk.

Well thanks for that, that is obviously your perception colored by your beliefs. Meantime, has it occured to any of you that we are the ones being bullied and having our beliefs attacked? Why is it okay to talk about meds because they have worked for people, but it's not okay to talk about any other solution that has worked for people? I am right here and now calling censorship, plain and simple.

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Fat people - even those carrying 2 or 3 extra pounds - would love to learn these "power of the mind" tricks and not eat those extra fries.

Yep, I'm fat, too. I've lost 65 pounds and still have around another 50 to go. And I will be happy to get into a debate with you against having the weight-loss surgery, too if you want. Saying that you can't do it on your own is BS.

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and I'm trying to use it to be a little bit more patient - and failing.

Looks like we have something in common. And something to work on. I never said I was perfect, and there ain't very many people in this world that are. But at least I constantly look at my life and find things that need improvement, and then improve them.

And again I say (and will keep saying until it sinks in and people stop putting words in my mouth), I'm not saying unequivocably that people shouldn't be on meds. Whatever you are doing right now is what is right for you. I'm just offering that there are other alternatives, other possibilities. And I'm trying to get my voice heard over the overwhelming majority who want to censor and insist that only saying that meds are the solution is permissible, and reach the people whose doctors may not be giving them any other options.

I'm walking a marathon to raise money for the Leukemia & Lymphoma Society. Click Here for more information!

[kiltboy 0]

I have someone close to me that came back from Rwanda with PTSD (UN untervention in 95?). After we discovered that he was suffering from it his behaviour of the past few years was explained. Up to that point I'd just thought he'd turned into a complete arsehole. A contributing factor to the PTSD was that he was taking Lariam which we've since found out can amplify psychological problems such as depression, anxiety and make you more susceptible to PTSD.

He's better now but it took medication and a stint in psychiatric care to help him confront what was happening. Had there been less stigma associated with what he was suffering from then he may have been able to seek proffessional help sooner and not had the experience that he had.

David

[sinker 0]

I agree. You have to have the tools, and sometimes that just means finding out that they are out there.
But I see everyone denying the possibility in totality. That's BS.***

who exactly is denying the possibility? I sure as hell am not. re-read wendy's post...

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[sinker 0]

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Yes, I have, and yes I am, and I used to barely be able to leave my house because of it, and now it
doesn't bother me nearly as much.

w/o going into specifics Tonto, I totally believe in Luna's logic (hey- a new buzz phrase!) about battling phobias. Such techniques are quite effective, even sometimes better than medication interventions. Luna, congrats on what you've been able to accomplish w/ battling your phobia!

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Meantime, has it occured to any of you that we are the ones being bullied and having our beliefs attacked? Why is it okay to talk about meds because they have worked for people, but it's not okay to talk about any other solution that has worked for people? I am right here and now calling censorship, plain and simple.

wait a tic. hold on. this is not the way it is at all, at least the way I see it. While Tonto is speaking pretty bluntly about the quad in the wheelchair, I don't think any of us are trying to bully you about your beliefs. If it works for you, then more power to you. As I've told you, I also believe in the power of the mind and it's ability TO A POINT to positively influence all sorts of disease states, most importantly, mental illnesses. What some of us take exception to is that when Rhino first started to post about this, it came across to some as dogmatic and critical and insensitive to those who, for whatever reason, cannot or will not get off of medications.
And I don't remember ANYONE trying to censor you or Rhino.

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[Emma 0]

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Events don't control our lives, our reaction to the events does. And we DO control our reactions. For a good example, look at the Vietnam POW's, .... Some of them came out and killed themselves. Some of them ended up in psych wards. And some of them... came back and said that it was the best thing that had ever happened to them, and went on to lead amazing lives without being adversely effected [sic] by what they went through.

I am no big fan of the victim ('poor-me')/ blame ('and it's all YOUR FAULT') culture either. However I think your view is simplistic.

Yes, the mind is a powerful tool - infinitely powerful. However, Luna, I think your point demonstrates that not everyone is able to cope with the same circumstances equally well. Some members of society are not as strong, or as resilient, as others. Who is to say that those who coped well as POWs had not had marvellous, supportive childhoods, and those who did not cope as well, had not been abused as children (to use an extreme example) or at the very least, suffered from lower self-esteem for whatever reason.

We are products of our experiences and our genes, and while we do have a certain amount of control over how we react to our experiences, not everyone has the same amount of control. We are not all the same, we are not all dealt the same hand.

Your stance implies that choice over how we react to the events which unfold in our lives is infinite. I do not believe that it is. This is the core of our disagreement, and there is no way of proving it one way or another. There is no such thing as 'Absolute Truth' - no black and white but shades of grey.

I think the damaging implications of some posts on here are that depressed people are in some way to blame for their condition and that they should really 'take control' and 'get a grip'.

Unfortunately this seems insulting, insensitve and naive, regardless of your good intentions; compassion requires us to be a little less judgemental and a little more flexible in our approach to others.

[sinker 0]

Your stance implies that choice over how we react to the events which unfold in our lives is infinite. I do
not believe that it is. This is the core of our disagreement, and there is not way of proving it one way or
another. ***

well said... much better than I could have said myself.

-the artist formerly known as sinker