Police shooting in Louisana

[livendive 8]

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Dude, are you forgetting cops are people? Yes they make mistakes. These officers in the video did not make a mistake.

Killing someone for brandishing a cell phone isn't a mistake? I conceded that in this case it may have been an honest mistake, but I certainly wouldn't go so far as to say that killing someone who's threatening to dial 1-800-CALL ATT is the correct course of action.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[LouDiamond 1]

I don't know what color the sky is in your world but it is apparent that your one bad experience( I'd wager there is more to this) with LEOs has left you with a bias against them and no matter what facts are presented, your stance will not change.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[BlueEyedMonster 0]

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Dude, are you forgetting cops are people? Yes they make mistakes. These officers in the video did not make a mistake.

Killing someone for brandishing a cell phone isn't a mistake? I conceded that in this case it may have been an honest mistake, but I certainly wouldn't go so far as to say that killing someone who's threatening to dial 1-800-CALL ATT is the correct course of action.

You are taking things way out of context to try to prove a bad point. He was not threatening to dial ATT. He was threatening to kill the Police Officers with an object he intended them to see as a gun.

Killing him was no mistake on the part of the officers.

Passing off a cell phone as a gun was a HUGE mistake on his part.

[livendive 8]

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I don't know what color the sky is in your world

Blue right now, with no breeze, but the DZ is closed and I'm carrying an emergency phone that ties me to the ground anyhow.

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but it is apparent that your one bad experience( I'd wager there is more to this) with LEOs has left you with a bias against them and no matter what facts are presented, your stance will not change.

Actually, I did change my stance somewhat, in that I admitted this shooting was in response to a threat. Still, you're correct that there is more to it and that I have a bias that is unlikely to change.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[miked10270 0]

Speaking as a cop with 17 years service, I was going to post somewhere around the time that there were about 30 replies, but all the points both for and against had already been made and the entire spectrum of opinion had been covered.

This now has over 150 replies in a single day!

Did nothing else happen in the world today? Or is arguing without sufficient information over the legitimacy of police actions the new blood(less?) sport?

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[livendive 8]

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You are taking things way out of context to try to prove a bad point. He was not threatening to dial ATT. He was threatening to kill the Police Officers with an object he intended them to see as a gun.

Killing him was no mistake on the part of the officers.

The officers mistook his phone for a gun and mistakenly believed their lives were in danger from it. I'd like to hope that if they had it to do over again with the knowledge that it was just a phone, they wouldn't have killed him.

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Passing off a cell phone as a gun was a HUGE mistake on his part.

Agreed, and that wasn't his only one.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[BlueEyedMonster 0]

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Did nothing else happen in the world today? Or is arguing without sufficient information over the legitimacy of police actions the new blood(less?) sport?

Yeah, they canceled our night jumps tonight on account of the weather. So I was bored and needed something to get my blood pumping

[BlueEyedMonster 0]

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I'd like to hope that if they had it to do over again with the knowledge that it was just a phone, they wouldn't have killed him.

I'll bet those two officers would have given almost anything to know that was just a phone.

[ladyskydiver 0]

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Have you ever fired a gun? You've been watching too many movies. Handguns are the most difficult to master and least accurate firearms. Shooting a moving target in the leg is only going to happen when you aim at the middle of their chest and miss.

Yes, as a matter of fact I have. I happen to own and love my S&W 686 classic stainless version 6" barrel .357 caliber revolver, and I only shoot .357 through them. Using a .38 caliber through it is a total waste of a beautiful gun.

Yes, I am accurate and know the exact amount of damage that gun will do should I chose to shot someone. I've not only enjoyed going to the range, but I've also enjoyed IDP competition. And, I've enjoyed shooting a .12 gauge just for the hell of it.

Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile.

[skydiverbrian 0]

Oh, hello? Today's my first day on the planet. I thought that lights and sirens from police cars behind me meant they wanted to race. I thought when a cop said "stop", what he really meant was, "turn and swing at me, then run away". I thought that rather than put my hands in the air, a better idea would be to put them into my pockets and pull out the small objects that might be mistaken for weapons.

This really can't be my fault. After all, I'm black.

In a world full of people, only some want to fly... isn't that crazy! --Seal

[ladyskydiver 0]

See this post.

Why is it that because someone views it differently and says "shoot them someplace other than their back," it is automatically assumed that the person saying that has not shot a gun and therefore has impaired judgment due to the box with moving pictures (TV to those that watch it)?

Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile.

[freeflir29 0]

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Now what reason do I have to extend that kind of trust to a stranger?

You can be FAIRLY sure he isn't a crack head after your wallet.

[Steel 0]

Actaully its unrealistic in this day and age of a liberal media switching facts around with the assistance of attornries to expect a cop to ever shoot to injure. For a cop or anybody with a gun for that matter, shooting to injure is a guarantee that he will have to defend his actions right or wrong in courtroom a lot longer than if he killed the person he shot.
I have heard many stories about people who break into homes to steal and then get shot in the leg by the homeowner. Typically they make up stories with the help of attornies about how they went to there thinking somebody was in need of help. Then the person protecting his home not wanting to kill all the sudden gets treated like the criminal. Cops know this game all to well. I am not saying it has never happened but I don't know of any real life stories where a cop fired at someone and didn't kill them.
The use of deadly force is a last case senario because in never ends pretty. But once the decision has been made going half way the worst mistake somebody can make.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[kmcguffee 0]

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shoot them someplace other than their back

This question is asked a lot in our citizen's academy. In a high stress situation, where a cop's life is in danger, they only hit about one out of every five shots fired (based on last years statistics). That is aiming at center mass. That is also from people who are hitting 98 - 100% at the range firing at paper targets. Firing at the legs or hands or whatever is not realistically feasible. Even if you hit the person in the leg and they have adrenaline pumping they will not go down for awhile unless the bullet completely breaks a major bone. Only police snipers, who are away from the action and firing at a relatively stationary target, take shots like that.

As for the amount of shots fired. The police stopped firing when the guy went down. It was not excessive force in that manner. He stopped firing when the threat was eliminated.

The courts look at these incidents from the point of view of the cop not the point of view of 20/20 hindsight. They gave the guy verbal warnings and he didn't comply, they felt that he posed a danger to them when he pointed an object at them, they made a decision and have to live with it. The fact that he turned around and continued walking does not mean he was no longer a threat (in the eyes of the cops and with the knowledge they had at the time). If someone has a gun with their back to you, they can turn around and get at least one shot off before you can pull the trigger. This is true even if you have a gun pointed at them with your finger on the trigger. I've seen it demonstrated a number of times with simunitions. It is a matter of action being faster than reaction.

IMO the cops were justified in the shooting. In fact, if it would have been a gun instead of a cellphone, one of the cops could have been in the hospital or dead right now.

"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin

[lawrocket 3]

Here's a little info on how this stuff works.

If at the time of the incident the police had: 1) an honest fear that they are in imminent danger of losing life or limb; and 2) a reasonable fear that they are in imminent danger of losing life or limb, the shooting is justified.

The "gun" turned out to be a cell-phone. Did the cops know that? Apparently, at least one cop thought it was a real gun. Apparently the victim/perp/suspect/target intended the police to believe it was a gun.

Next, was it reasonable for the police to think the guy had a gun? That's the main issue. Low light situation, confrontational suspect not responding appropriately to commands. Etc.

When one cop opens up, the other follow until the threat is neutralized. None of this "shoot him in the leg" stuff. If deadly force is appropriate, then deadly force is appropriate.

If a guy pulls a gun on me and threatens to kill me and I shoot him, am I wrong if it turns out that it was a fake? Deadly force is a perfectly acceptable response to the threat of deadly force if retreat is not an option.

Don't let emotions get in the way of this. It is unfortunate.

Also, lest we forget, "Suicide by Cop" is a fairly common thing. Many know that we attorneys may end up suing for it and recovering.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[mjosparky 4]

It is easy to second guess the actions of some else from the comfort of your computer desk. How many of you have ever had a gun pull on you, had shots fired at you or ever felt your life was on the line. You watch a short video clip and with all your training and expertise pass judgement on the actions of others who had a split sec. to react. Grow up.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Laurel 0]

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It is easy to second guess the actions of some else from the comfort of your computer desk. How many of you have ever had a gun pull on you, had shots fired at you or ever felt your life was on the line. You watch a short video clip and with all your training and expertise pass judgement on the actions of others who had a split sec. to react. Grow up.
Sparky

Here, here!!!! Best post so far.

.....................................................................
PMS#28, Pelogrande Rodriguez#1074
My Pink M

[mjosparky 4]

Thanks Laurel,
Some are bad, most try like hell to keep us safe.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[livendive 8]

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Now what reason do I have to extend that kind of trust to a stranger?

You can be FAIRLY sure he isn't a crack head after your wallet.

I suspect drug addicts are approximately as common among police ranks as they are among the general population. Off the top of my head, the only crack addict I can think of right now also happens to be a full time cop. Granted I don't run in those circles anymore, so my exposure to that element of our society is pretty limited.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[skycop 0]

Like he said, you can be FAIRLY certain.

One thing on the media, and the coverage of incidents. We had a situation recently where a guy wanted to commit suicide by cop. He walked down the street with a loaded shotgun in his hand, and two other loaded long guns slung over his shoulders. Our guys responded, got the guy cornered, diverted his attention, and finally an officer snuck up behind him and tackled him, while on the ground the bad guy was disarmed by several officers.
The press coverage of this incident consisted of one 5 paragraph small article on page two.
No blood, minimal coverage..........
If our guys would have shot this dude, massive coverage, questions, ect. Not to mention a law suit. Even if a guy runs at me carrying a gun, knife, or other weapon, and I use deadly force, 99.9% I'm sued. Even if I am 100% justified.
Welcome to my world.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[dragonfyr 0]

Look at car 138 video. He turned around and with both hands pointed something at the cop. The cop even went so far as to duck in order to avoid what he "might" have thought was a gun getting ready to be fired. That was when the other cop opened fire.

Granted, lots of other issues. I agree with others in the thread that 8 shots is probably excessive, but we were not there. Some crooks get so jacked up on speed and other drugs that one bullet doesn't even phase them. If you notice, it wasn't until the 6th or 7th shot before the person even started going down.

The point is, not one of us was there. The guy ran from the cops, threatened the cops, and they had to make a split second decision.

[skreamer 1]

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Speaking as a cop with 17 years service, I was going to post somewhere around the time that there were about 30 replies, but all the points both for and against had already been made and the entire spectrum of opinion had been covered.

17 years in the British police force? "Stop and put down that gun or I'll say stop again!!"

[dkpbxman 0]

If you think it makes any difference, I retired from the NYPD after 16 years on the midnight shift in Harlem. He's right!

[Viking 0]

wow you must have seen it all twice!!

I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver
My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin

[unlucky1 0]

yes...for all of the uneducated bashing police officers...maybe you should look up the "cell-phone" guns that have become popular with gang-bangers. They have cell phones that can fire 4 .25 cal bullets. Should the cops wait to see if they get shot at first? So, all of you bashing police..maybe you should search "cell phone guns" and see what i mean. And the answer is "yes"...they are very popular. Just like the Pager gun, and the "pen" zip gun.
blues