Would you like to end your depression? Get off of medication? Try this..................

[Emma 0]

Well, in general I prefer to hang out with my skydiver friends because I have a lot in common with them, but I get a bit suspicious when people start to talk about skydivers being 'better' than non-skydivers. We just jump out of planes, we aren't saving the world here...

[andy2 0]

rhino, its really interesting that you mentioned this. I was reading a book about the dalai lama "the art of happiness" and it mentioned in here that either smiling or frowning had the same physiological effects on the brain whether you were forcing it or not. Force a smile and you can't help but picking up a little, its your brain's conditioning.

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let my inspiration flow,
in token rhyme suggesting rhythm...

[txblondie 0]

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Well, in general I prefer to hang out with my skydiver friends because I have a lot in common with them, but I get a bit suspicious when people start to talk about skydivers being 'better' than non-skydivers. We just jump out of planes, we aren't saving the world here...

Thus the statement 'we aren't superheroes'--however, we do save our own lives every time we jump out of a plane. That ought to count for something...

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Blondes do have more fun!

[rhino 0]

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pretty balsy of you after the women's forum posts awhile back. dude, with all due respect, I'm glad this stuff has worked for you and others. but you need to know that some people may read this and think that b/c such "pull yourself up by your bootstrap" measures don't work for them, that thye are failures and may sink deeper into their depression. I think that creating a thread like this is irresponsible given the serious nature of depression as an illness.

Like I said.. don't criticize it until you try it..

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depression is not a homogeneous illness

o.k. Fair enough.. But each of us has the ability to control how our mind reacts to every situation. Your mind is something you actually have TOTAL control of.

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The best way to attack a serious depression, which has been cited over and over in the medical literature is through a combination of medication and therapy

What I have mentiones IS therapy. It is a way to work on ones self WITHOUT needing drugs. You want to take drugs fine.. To each his own. But people that have done this simple exercise have been able to go off of medications.

Call it POP PSYCHOLOGY if you will. Whatever.

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and for some can be detrimental

People on Prozac put a bullet in their mouths JUST as much as those that don't take it.

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think that b/c such "pull yourself up by your bootstrap" measures don't work for them, that thye are failures and may sink deeper into their depression.

OR, they can try it and maybe it will work. Instead of using change as an excuse not to take action to better themselves.
Rhino

[rhino 0]

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I'll argue against it without trying it. I've seen what happens when clinically depressed people stop taking their meds because they think they are cured

Then don't stop.. Do the exercise anyways and watch what happens.

Now.. Instead of bitching and moaning. Or taking some diet pill. I am going to ride my bike 7 miles to the gym, work out for an hour and ride it 7 miles home. Time to get some pay dirt

Rhino

[sinker 0]

Like I said.. don't criticize it until you try it..

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does that mean I can only be an effective therapist IF I've experienced all the symptoms of the disease I'm treating?

But each of us has the ability to control how our mind reacts to every situation. Your mind
is something you actually have TOTAL control of.

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Tell that to the schizophrenic or the manic/depressive.... "C'mon, you can WILL those voices away.... you can STOP this manic episode, if you just put your mind to it..." That is extremely stupid and dangerous. In many cases of depression, that is exactly the same thing.

People on Prozac put a bullet in their mouths JUST as much as those that don't take it.

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And I assume you have data to substantiate this? If so, bring it on dude. Prove it.

Instead of using change as an excuse not to take action to better
themselves. ***

Puhleeze!!!! while this may be true for some, to make that statement catagorically is neither intellectually honest nor compassionate. Instead, people who advocate your type of "therapy" are sometimes doing more to victimize people w/ depression.

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[Emma 0]

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however, we do save our own lives every time we jump out of a plane. That ought to count for something

OK so does it count when I save my own life by remembering to apply the brakes when coming off the freeway at 90mph? And I don't have a cypres/ AAD/ RSL equivalent on my car...

Just playing devil's advocate here.

[sinker 0]

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Instead of bitching and moaning. Or taking some diet pill. I am going to ride my bike 7 miles to the
gym, work out for an hour and ride it 7 miles home. Time to get some pay dirt

Good for you. However, it's incredibly near-sided to think this analogy works for people who suffer from clinical depression (we're not talkin about the blues or a set of symptoms brought on by life stressors). You may not want to see it that way, but ya know, I want OTHERS reading this thread to know that if you try the Rhino-School-of-Psychotherapy and it does't work, you're not alone and you're not a failure.

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[rhino 0]

Fight me all you want. 90+ percent of people on those types of medications are simply taking the easy way out.

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And I assume you have data to substantiate this? If so, bring it on dude. Prove it.

Better yet why don't you give data to prove otherwise. You have stated your opinions that are typical in todays "hand out antidepressant" society.

We are One Nation Under Prozac. lol

I would never criticise those who take it I would criticize the incompetent "therapists" that hand it out like candy.

Hell some people go to the Dr.'s Just to get certified. Yeppie!! I am CLINNICALLY DEPRESSED!! I'm licensed now!!

Give me a break. pleeeeeze...

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does that mean I can only be an effective therapist

Is there such a thing?? lol j/k

Rhino

[rhino 0]

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I want OTHERS reading this thread to know that if you try the Rhino-School-of-Psychotherapy and it does't work, you're not alone and you're not a failure.

You made your point. I never said anyone was if it didn't work. I said try it. But hell you probably have those that are on pills so damned afraid that they won't even try.

Rhino

[PhillyKev 0]

Yes, we can control a lot of things with our minds. But when your mind is the thing that is sick in the first place, then you're using a flawed tool to fix the problem, to be blunt.

[andy2 0]

I agree with sinker on the points he made here. Picking yourself up out of the "blues" is ok by exercising, doing something different, etc. But clinical depression is a different beast entirely. Having your serotonin bind at a much lower rate is something altogether different than just being bored with your life and wanting something more. I have a friend who has severe manic depression, and the only way she can live successfully is medicated. It's sad

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let my inspiration flow,
in token rhyme suggesting rhythm...

[rhino 0]

I won't argue... If you are depressed just try it..

Talk to me in 30 days and see if it makes a major change in your life.

Rhino

[andy2 0]

[QUOTE]You made your point. I never said anyone was if it didn't work. I said try it. But hell you probably have those that are on pills so damned afraid that they won't even try.[/QUOTE]

Do you understand how ignorant you sound? Get out and get a little life experience, bro. Work at a home for emotionally disturbed. You'll understand how desperately these people are trying anything just to live normally. Like I said, it's very sad.

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let my inspiration flow,
in token rhyme suggesting rhythm...

[rhino 0]

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Having your serotonin bind at a much lower rate is something altogether different than just being bored with your life and wanting something more

Maybe the 20 minutes of smiling at yourself can NATURALLY help that situation? Maybe?


If it doesn't work TOTALLY for someone that's o.k. At least they had the courage to try for their own benefit.

Rhino

[rhino 0]

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Do you understand how ignorant you sound?

I don't care.,. Try it...

[andy2 0]

I personally agree with you. What you are suggesting is basically meditating on yourself for 20 minutes each morning. This kind of thing works for "normal" people to pick their spirits up/self esteem booster/whatever. I'm just saying youre blind if you think this will work for everybody.

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let my inspiration flow,
in token rhyme suggesting rhythm...

[Emma 0]

Hmmm...smiling does make me feel better. But then again I'm not clinically depressed.

[andy2 0]

[QUOTE]Hmmm...smiling does make me feel better. But then again I'm not clinically depressed.[/QUOTE]

Exactly my point.

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let my inspiration flow,
in token rhyme suggesting rhythm...

[Emma 0]

Advising depressed people to 'get off their meds' is highly irresponsible, regardless of the 'alternative' therapy you suggest.

[sinker 0]

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90+ percent of people on those types of medications are simply taking the easy way
out.

again, prove it. where are you getting your figures? and how in God's name would you know these people are taking the easy way out? Are SOME of them? Undoubtedly. Are 90% of them? Probably not. Do some of them not have the mental strength and stamina to do anything BUT take a pill? Of course... and for them to NOT take a pill would be incredibly stupid.

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Better yet why don't you give data to prove otherwise. You have stated your opinions that are typical in
todays "hand out antidepressant" society

You're the one who is making outlandish claims, so you should be the one to back up your argument. Not me. I'm IN THE FIELD, Rhino, I work w/ this stuff day in and day out. And my opinions ARE NOT typical of the "hand out antidep." society. You're making an unwarranted conclusion based on limited facts. I have already said TWICE here that I think antideps. are OVERPRESCRIBED. Doctors are far too quick to hand out Prozac instead of really looking at what the root cause of depression is and THEN making an appropriate treatment recommendation. There are many reasons for this including doctor's laziness, third-party reimbursement constraints, etc.

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[Andie787 0]

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Fight me all you want. 90+ percent of people on those types of medications are simply taking the easy way out.

and in the same post...

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I would never criticise those who take it I would criticize the incompetent "therapistsCrazy" that hand it out like candy.

I think you've already done more than just offend a lot of people. You think you know what's best for everyone. You stand on a pedestal defending yourself with "Don't knock it 'til you've tried it". Well, don't knock other people's decisions to choose drugs over despair until you've walked a mile in their shoes. What? You can't do that? Then don't argue with me.

There is a middle ground, you know, between medications and crackpot therapies. I'm not even on meds and your attitude makes me furious. I can imagine how defensive other people feel...

Andie

[sinker 0]

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But hell you probably have
those that are on pills so damned afraid that they won't even try.

and that's a bad thing WHY???? People SHOULD be trepedatious about getting off of meds. And they should do so ONLY under the care of a competent psychiatrist/therapist (yes, they do exist, inspite of what you think ).

Getting off of even "mild" antidepressents such as Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, is a very difficult process given the withdrawal syndrome that accompanies them. And, the possibility for a re-bound depression that is WORSE THAN BEFORE is quite distinct.

Rhino, let me be as clear as I can be... I am ALL FOR people trying natural methods of treating their depressions. It is FAVORABLE for someone to be able to do so w/o resorting to medications. HOWEVER, such an approach is often not practical nor prudent and such a decision must be made in consultation w/ a competent psychiatrist/therapist.

I got severely depressed after my lovely wife was diagnosed with Rheumatoid Arthritis. Prior to this, I had been able to deal with bouts of depression fairly successfully through talk therapy and other techniques I'd learned. However, when she became ill, we had two young kids in diapers, she could no longer work, dress herself, or brush her teeth. I had to work 7 days a week to make ends meet. And my brain and body shut down and I became very depressed. I got on meds, which was a VERY difficult decision to make (after all, I was the therapist! I could do this myself dammit!). But you know, I couldn't do it myself. I needed the floor put back under me and drugs did that. That was 4 years ago. Since then I have been off of the meds twice for several months each time. However, each time, my ability to function with a handicapped wife, young children, and as the only bread winner in the house began to deteriorate. If it werent' for Zoloft, I would not be able to successfully fulfill my duties as a husband, father, and worker.

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[rhino 0]

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I think you've already done more than just offend a lot of people.

Get in line. I don't really care what you think about me.

What I offered is a possible, alternative way of helping yourself.

Funny.. I got it from Anthony Robbins.. I guess he is just a jack ass that doesn't know shit about the human mind huh?? He helps MILLIONS of people a year. HE is a billionaire.. Owns his own island.. Planes.. He has respect. Councels Presidents. He counseled Mother Theresa among others. He REALLY cares about people.. So do I. I don't sit around and make excuses as to why you can't possibly help yourself. I pass on helpfull info. Shared with some that might need it.

And as usual the little minds come out of the woods to throw a flame on a good thing.

Rhino

[rhino 0]

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People SHOULD be trepedatious about getting off of meds.

FINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Try smiling for 20 minutes a day in the mirror!!!!!!!!!!!! People spend HOURS being depressed why can't they give themselves 20 minutes a day?

Rhino