downsizing question...

[ranger28 0]

Most of my jumps are on MC-5s (military) with large F-111 main canopies. In the landing pattern, as instructed, I always flew at half brakes, resumed full flight at 100', and then executed the flare - no real problems. Since then, I have jumped some ZPs, and found them easy enough to land...these were fun jumps at civilian DZs so kept them in full flight in the whole pattern. Wing loading on the ZPs around .9:1.

Recently I purchased a ZP canopy, which will be loaded at 1.3:1 (wanted something a little larger, but couldn't pass this deal up). Definately can't wait to jump it, but also don't want to be at 100' wishing I had another 30 sq ft of nylon over my head either. I am a very conservative pilot, and plan to use extreme caution on the first several landings.

I have some buddies who are convinced I'm good to go with this, but I'd like a neutral opinion from an experienced skydiver.

[punkd 0]

you're gonna get alot of responses like "your gonna die" or "your gonna break your legs if you fly that canopy" asking for downsizing advice on here is not the best idea.

1.3WL at ~30 jumps isnt that great of an idea either.

Talk with your instructors.

[councilman24 37]

Quote

Definately can't wait to jump it, but also don't want to be at 100' wishing I had another 30 sq ft of nylon over my head either. I am a very conservative pilot, and plan to use extreme caution on the first several landings.

Nobody here knows you well enough to give a good answer. I certainly wouldn't rely on your 'buddies'. Your instructors and S&TA maybe.

But, being a conservative pilot and planning to use extreme caution means that you wouldn't be jumping it.

Many times it's not the "normal" landing where you get to be conservative that bites you. It's the suddenly calm day when you've been used to 10mph, or the 25mph wind that comes up after take off, or the load that loaded slower, climbed slower, was held for traffic and now the light is pretty dim if not dark, or the bad spot that put's you over the subdivision, or the misjudgement in getting back across the highway, or the power line that suddenly appears in front of you at 50', or the not extremely cautious jumper that cuts you off, or any number of other odd, unusual landing circumstances that you may not be able to control. A few landings doesn't get it, a few dozen maybe not, a few hundred - now you've seen a lot of landing conditions.

It also depend if it is a 135 or 150 that your on at 1.3:1 or a 210. The effect of loading does NOT scale directly.

It also depends if your changing canopy design/type as well as downsizing.

Go read the PD website articles on wingloading and downsizing as well as the other advice here.

A 'good deal' isn't such a good deal if your busted up or dead.

Have fun!

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[PhreeZone 20]

Your best option is to find an experienced canopy pilot that has seen your landings in the past and can judge how you have done to this point. 1.3 is very agressive at that level by any standard.

A few things to note is that things will be happening faster now then they were before, a landing that you'd have to PLF out and think nothing of now can seriously hurt you. You also can not be flying the pattern in half breaks anymore since you will be decending a lot faster and that is going to just clog up the pattern for everyone else.

I've seen 3 guys transfer from MC5's to Civilian ZP's this year. Based on their experience I would recommend doing some jumps on the larger canopy flying the canopy at full speed from opening to landing and really work on flying the pattern and hitting your accuracy. That seems to have been the areas that I saw these guys needed improvements on during their first few ZP jumps.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[popsjumper 2]

Why do you want to downsize?

Because you got a good deal?

Because your buddies say you'd be just fine?

Why?

I see several red-flags that tell me you may not be making good choices.

Re-read Councilman's post. There's a lot more involved than just doing straight-in landing patterns.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[UDSkyJunkie 0]

Quote

Recently I purchased a ZP canopy, which will be loaded at 1.3:1 (wanted something a little larger, but couldn't pass this deal up). Definately can't wait to jump it, but also don't want to be at 100' wishing I had another 30 sq ft of nylon over my head either.

Patience, young grasshopper

Yeah, I know it probably seems like it was the best deal in the world, but it probably wasn't... another week or two and you probably could have found another great deal on a 1-2 sizes larger canopy. If you can get out of the current deal, I'd encourage you to really think about it.

That 2nd sentence summarizes everything. We have a saying: "it's better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air than in the air wishing you were on the ground."

"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

[crazyboy 0]

Have a look at this one...

http://www.bigairsportz.com/pdf/bas-sizingchart.pdf

If your parachute fails to open, remember you have the rest of your live to fix it.

[NWFlyer 2]

Quote

Nobody here knows you well enough to give a good answer. I certainly wouldn't rely on your 'buddies'. Your instructors and S&TA maybe.

Considering that a "buddy" pulled this stunt it implies that perhaps he ought not to rely on their judgment...

[squarecanopy 0]

I am not an experienced jumper, but I did stay at the Holiday Inn Express last night. Seriously, I did basically the same thing when I bought my first rig. Went from a student 230 to a Sabre 2 190. WEE HAA. I landed decently 5 times out of the next 25 jumps, decided I was going to get badly hurt (It finally dawned on me that the bad landings were not just a matter of inexperience, but DUHH excessively high wing loading, about 1.35:1, and inexperience) and I called PD and got a demo Sabre 2 210 and jumped it in the course of taking a canopy class. I have since UPSIZED permanently to a Sabre 2 210(wingload 1.1:1), can land now on my feet and have confidence to address the less than ideal conditions that the Councilman refers to. That is my personal experience in 300 words or less. Moral of the story, don't be in too big of a hurry to downsize. I was lucky I didn't get hurt.

Just burning a hole in the sky.....