Thank you God...... Have you thanked God lately?

[Perky77 0]

Misskriss, I agree alot with what you said, and you said it very well.

I thank God every time the plane takes off, and every morning that I when I get up. It makes me happy, I dont try and force my faith on anyone, so don't force your lack of faith on me.(and that is not directed at anyone)

my beliefs are mine, i dont follow the crowd, or believe because I am told too, but I have a very strong faith in God, because he has helped me deal with things in the past and I know will help me in the future. If that gets me to live after I die, great, if not because it wasnt the way the "church" said to do things, then it was my choice, and I am the one who made that choice.

Do what makes you happy, life is alot easier that way.

just my pov.

"Sacrifice is a part of life. It is supposed to be. It's not something you regret . It's something to aspire to." Mitch Albom

[cutie 0]

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I object to this post on the constitutional right of "Freedom FROM Religion".

OK, before anyone gets all uptight, I am making a point. I am a total atheist. However, I am noting a disturbing trend in the US today to confuse "Freedom OF religion," which we are guaranteed in the constitution, with "freedom FROM."

No uptightness here afterall one of my best friends is a atheist.I Love them with all I am. Rhino felt good today expressing his joy over his feeling of "his" religion...lots joined in... don't ever think that people that express how they feel will get uptight on how someone else feels....thats why it is the freedom of speech that makes us come together.

Rejoice in your atheist-ism....as for the flag speech....that my friend will have to come from congress not at dz.com.....just smile no one here is uptight for any reason at all

[chuteless 1]

I am very heartened to see this thread on the dropzone site. Occassionally there are blasphemous remarks made, and it reflects on parachutists in general. Its nice to see that there are some believers in this sport.YES, I thanks my wonderful Lord and Saviour for everything, for it ALL comes through His grace. Bless you all.

[Raefordite 0]

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So what happens to the 5 year old girl who is raped and tortured and then killed? She *gets* to spend eternity with someone who could have prevented those horrors in the last waning moments of her life but chose not to? Or she *has* to?

Of course I'm assuming you accept that there is some age of innocence below which children are admitted to heaven without being saved. Otherwise, you'd be saying that your god would allow travesties like that as simple foreplay before an eternal sentence in hell.

Try reading Romans, Chapter 2, verses 12-15. Especially verse 14. For those that may not have a bible handy:

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12-All who sin apart form the law will perish apart form the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13-For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14-(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.)

This section of the letter Paul was written to the Romans means that little child that dies before knowing Christ, or the uneducated isolated country that has never heard of God will not necessarily burn in hell because they are not "saved" or because they do not have the written law. Rather if they are of good heart, good people and live by their own righteous law, they will be saved as the Jew of Paul's time that obeyed the written law of God.

[CrazyIvan 0]

I thank God everyday for all what I have and don't have.

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Blue Skies and May the Force be with you.

[sinker 0]

This is long, please be patient with me... I am SO totally bummed that I missed out on this thread!!! I am away on business and can only check the forums at night in the hotel and it's SLLOOOWWWW dial up...

What a great thread. Thank you Rhino, for starting it. I was surprised to see so many people thanking God. Very interesting. To me, this is the REAL fruit, people talking about what DOES and DOES NOT matter the most in life. Yeah, skydiving is very important, but for me it is only a means to an end. I feel so close to God in freefall. It's a very strange thing. I can't explain it to others, they just have to experience it. For me, time completely slows down, especially on a solo dive. It's a "flow" experience after which I am extremely clear in the head and very peaceful.

A word about suffering and that being proof that there either is not a God or that God doesn't care, otherwise He wouldn't let such suffering occur. Hold on a sec. Why is it that just BECAUSE suffering occurs, God is to blame? Free will is by far the greatest gift, I believe, given to us by God. If we didn't possess that ability, could we REALLY claim that God loves us? To NOT have free will would be for God to enslave us, hardly an act of unconditional love. I believe God says, "I love you so much that, in cooperation with your parents, I created you as a unique and unrepeatable human being to go and do what you will with your life, simply because it is GOOD to BE, good to exist. If you don't acknowledge me, if you don't love me back, I will not withdraw my love, my gift of free will."

What does this have to do with suffering? Well, a lot of the suffering in life is CAUSED by people exercising their free will. Even if choices made by others were under the influence of drugs or alcohol and their ability to freely choose was mitigated, why should that impell God to usurp or suspend the greatest gift He's given humans. And, before the argument comes up, the God Christian's believe is omniscient and omnipresent is not less so simply because his creations (humans) "tied His hands" by doing evil nasty bad things to others. Because He allows it doesn't mean He likes it. And, in allowing it to happen, He gives others the gift of coming to the aid of those who suffer and alleviating, to the best of their ability, their suffering. That is, if they answer that call.

Another thing about suffering: alot of suffering NOT caused by the bad choices of others comes naturally, such as through disease. I'm a walking living breathing example of this. My lovely wife has Rheumatoid Arthritis and is disabled. If you are not aware of this disease, it is not the sort of arthritis one gets after a sports injury or when one gets old. It is an intractable, inflammatory, life shortening, wasting disease that is excruciatingly painful. My wife is only 34 and contracted the disease when she was 30. She can no longer work. Her hands are hideously curled and knarled. She cannot open a bottle of apple juice or a carton of milk without assistance. She can hardly pick up our kids, let alone play rough with them. But you know what? She and I have found God in her suffering. In more ways than one. The most important thing is that for those who believe in Christ suffering is redemptive. It makes us better people. No, I'm not masochistic. But to non-Christians, this belief doesn't make much sense and it's easy to ridicule. But, that's the crux of Christianity, that suffering is redemptive. No, I can't "Save" myself through my suffering, BUT I can grow in virtue through the assistance of Grace by suffering well. I see that in my wife every day. She suffers well. She doesn't complain. She is humbled by it. And she's grateful it isn't worse and that it has made her a better person. It's kind of like the alcoholic who, once sober, thanks God for his alcoholism, without which he might not have met such a gracious God. My wife is thankful she is not wheelchair bound yet. As a result of her suffering, she's more loving to our children (and she was already a saint with them). She lets me love her more by me serving her more. And that is another way I see God in suffering. I become Christ to my wife by serving her, by helping to alleviate her suffering as much as I can. I become less selfish, less prideful, less arogant. I become softer and more loving. And in return I am abundantly blessed. Also, the pain my wife feels, and that I feel also, since she will never skydive, will never play softball again, will never..., has helped us reconcile some of our problems. It's like the family who finally healed their dysfunction after one of the members discovered he or she was dying with cancer. Suffering can serve as the balm to heal old wounds! That is how God makes sense out of suffering.

I just re-read the thread before posting this... Raefordite did a great job explaining the Christian view of what happens to little kids who are not of the "age of reason" who die. And this applies too to those who are innocently ignorant of Christ. Sure, they can go to Heaven. I've always been of the belief, as is the Church I belong to, that only God knows the depths of each human soul. Only God knows if Jesus has truly been rejected from a person's soul. It isn't for me to judge. That doesn't mean that I shouldn't exhort my friends if I see them doing something contrary to natural or Divine law. To neglect that task would be wrong of me and wrong of them if they saw me doing something wrong also. That is not judging, that is love.

Someone else earlier wrote that they don't think humans are any better than rats in the back yard and God wouldn't have chosen US for any grand design b/c of how "crappy" humans are or can be. It's far too easy to see life this way, but I can't help but disagree. When I was 17 I spent some time with Mother Theresa at a mission in Gallup New Mexico. Now, there is a woman who was not equal to a rat in the back yard. All 4 foot 11 inches of her was love. She loved everyone. And she didn't cram Jesus down anyone's throat. Accepting Christ was not a prerequisite for the "poorest of the poor" to receive needed food, shelter, medical care and LOVE. And her handshake was more firm than most men. And when she looked at me, she seemed to look into my soul. It was penetrating. That was the look of God. In February of 2000, I was invited to attend a private Mass with Pope John Paul II. Now, I know alot of you don't agree w/ his theology, his stance on women's issues, his response to the priest-sexual abuse scandal in this country. However, he too is a man of great love. I felt it when he embraced me, when he addressed me, when he spoke to me. He was sincerely interested in ME as a PERSON, as someone worthy of love, BECAUSE I am, and we all are, created in the image and likeness of God. It was an incredibly moving experience.

Yes, we are capable of the worst evil. And we are all the more capable of the greatest good. It's our choice. And there is no greater good than to accept God's love and in turn give it to others.

Sorry for the lengthy post. I hope it was worth the read.

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[Zenister 0]

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I don't see how a good god can turn you away at the gates should he exist.

Not well put. All you have to do is be saved. You can be a great person. If you don't do that one simple thing and get saved you will be turned away. Simple but true.

lol

you & I have a far different definition of "true"

if thats the blanket that helps you sleep at night so be it, but dont pretend you have any better knowledge of the nature of reality because youve adopted the mythos of on of the most violent cultures on earth as your security blanket...

if thats what 'reality' is like i will gladly stand at the foot of his throne and tell him how arrogant, evil and unjust his system of salvation is, then jump off the cloud myself turning a few points and nail many docks on the way to hell with all the rest of the freefliers & other wonderful people who are unjustly damned by your myths for not believing in "the one true god".. far better to be with them than all the bastards i've met in my life who claim to be 'saved' simply because they accepted a carpenter who got himself nailed to a tree as their personal savior....

"do something while your still libel..just let the martyrs do it all for you...how easy to get your wings....."

save your sorrow, it is unwanted and unneeded..there are many things beyond mans comprehension, lame attempts by jewish philosophers to confine divinity to their narrow cultural understanding of the universe have no meaning to me i have seen and experienced far more than they could ever imagine and none of it cried the name of their mythical savior.....

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[sinker 0]

I forgot to thank God! For my lovely wife, my three kids, two born, one inutero who is due in 4-5 weeks, for my friends on dz.com, for HH and his hard work, for my job and for a God who loves me. Personally. Individually. In spite of my shortcomings, of which there are many.

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[flypunk 0]

we sometimes forget, so thanks for the reminder. Thank you god for everything going the way it is, and for all things past.

...

[sinker 0]

As usual, your vitriolic tirades leave me sexually aroused. Will I go to hell for that?

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[Zenister 0]

only you can answer that, your realm of punishment is meaningless to me..

thanks for keeping an open mind...i love the sanctimonious condescention..are you doing the "slightly superior dance" too?

oh well sometimes theres simply no talking to those who think they have all the answers from a 2000 year of religious anthology written, rewritten and edited by men who claim to know the will of the creator.

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[sinker 0]

oh well, there's simply no talking to people who have nothing but hatred to spew about such a large group of people...

and sanctimonious condescention? I seem to recall an age old addage about a pot and a kettle... You don't get any more condescending than you, Zen. Too bad you can't take your own medicince...

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[Michele 1]

When I was at the bottom of the pit, depressed and frozen, I was counseled to begin keeping a "Blessing Journal". That's a journal where I name 5 blessings I had encountered that day. Some days it was terribly difficult to find 5 blessings - until I realized that "I was breathing, the flowers were blooming, I had enough toilet paper, there was enough rice for 2 more days, and I had a pen to write these blessings with" (Yes, that's a real entry).

After keeping this journal daily, and sometimes struggling hard to find enough to make the entry, I began to understand. Blessings are all around me, all the time, everywhere I look. They are abundant, they are free, and they are indeed blessings. It is not the new yacht sitting at the dock, or the new ferrari sitting in the garage; nor is it the money in the bank. It is not the things we acquire, it is simply that which is freely given us. The sky, the sun, the grass, the love of a friend. It is the purr of a kitten, the cuddle of a puppy. It is the incredibleness which is this life.

And upon realizing that, there was another understanding. God, whomever He/She/It is, whatever you believe it to be, however it shows up for you personally, is about love. Love and laughter and joy. It is about acceptance and simplicity and everything being always new. It is about the hug of a child and the glance of the aged, both sides of this life meeting and sharing an understanding. It is the sunkissed daisy which blooms right outside your kitchen door. It is appreciating that which is all around us, all the time, often unnoticed or rushed past.

It is taking a moment, an appreciation moment, to smell the jasmin on the night air, to make a stranger smile, to watch a flock of birds in flight. It is a brief recognition that in the simplicity of the world lies God.

I once was told to see myself as God sees me. And for several years I did not understand that. Instead, all I saw was ugliness, failings, frailty, insecurity. And one day, I understood. God sees all that, yes, but above that, beyond that, he sees the perfection and perfectness of who I am, inside, and loves that. He sees my potential, not my actual. He encourages me to find the potential, and not remain in the actual. He sees me as he meant me to be...and doesn't care that I am not perfect, nor frail. He sees me as the light.

Thank you, God, for opening my eyes and touching my heart. Thank you for stripping from me whatever had been in the way of my appreciating the beauty in the everyday world around me. And thank you, God, for melting my frozenness so that I could begin to see the simple things which reflect your face...

And I thank God daily, for every blessing, and every moment I am allowed. I try to thank God in the way I live my life, and in the way I treat people. And while I fail, I know He knows. And I thank Him for that.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[Zenister 0]

i have no issues with any ones religion, i certainly dont hate anyone ive never met who hasnt done anything to me, some of the best people i know are christians as are many of the worst the difference between them is often the fervor with which they put on their "church lady" hat and start telling me about how i'm going to hell because i dont (and will never) believe the way they do..i walked down that path for quite some time until i realized i was deceiving myself daily trying to convince myself something was true that i found fundamentally flawed.

sorry but my life and personal experiences of divinity on a daily basis has nothing to do with the blood of your carpenter.

I do not live in fear.
I was not born into sin (its a christian guilt concept that only has mean inside its construct) and feel no guilt for the actions of my hypothetical forebearers.
therefore I do not need 'saving'
the only person responsible for my life and the disposition of my soul (to use your terms) is ME and my ability to follow my path faithfully with honest intent.

there are many things that people find comfort in during difficult or stressful times, religion is one of them, primarily because of the social support structure (and therefore also a means of control) inherent in it.

if that is valuable to you then well and good, but the minute i find you looking down your nose at me in "pity" because i cannot believe in your mythos..expect to get thumped for it..

otherwise enjoy the universe in any manner you chose to...as i will continue to do so without the baggage of a religion created by men who knew far less of the world and how it works than your average 8 year old does to day.

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[sinker 0]

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It is the purr of a kitten, the cuddle of a
puppy. It is the incredibleness which is this life.

... but it's NOT in the noise making raccoon who disturbs Michele's sleep and scares the bejeezus out of her... no-sir-ee, that, my friends, is straight from HELL!

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[Michele 1]

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but it's NOT in the noise making raccoon who disturbs Michele's sleep and scares the bejeezus out of her... no-sir-ee, that, my friends, is straight from HELL!

ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[sinker 0]

/putting church lady hat and voice on/ "You have no issues with any religion, hmmm??? I'm sorry, am I really talking to Zenister or am I really talking to... SATAN???" /church lady hat and voice off/

it's a joke zen, just a joke. no need to thump my nose and no need to mock other people's religion in a self-congradulatory / triumphalistic way... if you really believe in live and let live, it should be reflected in your posts. If you read my other posts, you'll see that I don't look down my nose at you for not being Christian, for being so negative about it. I haven't lived your life, I haven't walked in your shoes. Only God REALLY knows why you -or anyone- does what he or she does. So you can take the accusational hat off me, it doesn't fit.

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[sinker 0]

and, my dear friend, what ever happened to said spawn of satan, aka drywall-raccoon?

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[cutie 0]

Remember God doesn't start wars and he doesn't like the hurt in the world.

God didn't do this... man himself did

God is love and God doesn't punish, he only picks us up when we are down and caries us..

If things tragic like death happens, don't be mad at him...there's always a reason for everything. Just think if its a person, he's bringing them home before it gets worst on that person.

Freak accidents....yes there are reasons for them also....you have to look deeply into your heart and see why and maybe even ask...I'll bet you will find your answer.

This is the way I feel

God loves us deeply

[Michele 1]

You mean Ms. Wall Invader?

The pest guy set out some traps. The bait was taken out but the traps were not sprung (them critters are smart). So then the pest guy whips out some very weird concoction made of fox urine, raccoon blood, and raccoon something-else. It is supposed to resemble the smell of a fight between a fox and a raccoon, and give the impression that a natural predator is in the area, and that the raccoon lost the fight.

I had zero faith that it would work...but it seems to have done the trick. I haven't heard the overgrown termite noises in the wall in several weeks, nor have I heard cooing in the walls. The cats are still occasionally reacting like something is there, but I can't hear anything, so at this point it's live and let live - or maybe it's really gone and the cats are just psychotic. Either way, I am getting some more sleep, so it's all goody in the hoody....

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[Iflyme 0]

Umm ... I don't believe in any "God", so I won't be saying thanks to any "Gods".

[sinker 0]

sounds like another reason to thank God to me...

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[cutie 0]

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Umm ... I don't believe in any "God", so I won't be saying thanks to any "Gods".

ok..........thank yourself and your skydiving.. as once said before.... everyone else is spreading thier joy of how they feel

Spread yours the way you want

[Push 0]

I've thanked him/her 153 times.

"Thank God it opened!" 100 times on the first jump, and once every jump thereafter

-- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo
Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you.

[Iflyme 0]

I was just answering Rhino's question!