deadbug 0 #26 October 11, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Quote Do you know what's really hard to estimate at 2000ft? Descent rate. Well unless you are wearing a neptune, then you will be able to tell exactly what your decent rate is... Ah... Don't quite understand that. Lets say your steady state descent rate is doubled due to broken lines or a partial mal. At 2000ft it's very hard to tell the difference between 20ft/sec and 40ft/sec. Once you get down to 500ft or so, you have a frame of reference due to your proximity to the ground. One other thing to consider is that if your canopy is descending faster due to any of the above reasons, it is likely that it won't flare with as much power and or will stall at a higher airspeed. Doug The neptune display has decent rate in ft/sec. it is displayed underneath the altitude. I guess I'm too old school I jump with an original Dytter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 9 #27 October 11, 2007 Quoteso, how many? Im looking for a good answer to use as a general rule. Assume the steering lines are fine, because if i had a broken steering line i would cutaway anyway considering I have absolutely no experience landing with the rear risers. Mark, Let me throw out a few things for you to consider... 1) Sure, I've seen folks land canopies with broken lines. Some didn't even know they had a broken line until they went to gather up their canopy and/or until they want to pack it. Some knew they had a broken line (lines) after opening and decided to land it anyways. Most landed just fine... while I've also seen others land a canopy with broken lines hammer in like they jumped off a 10' ladder. 2) A buddy of mine once got open and found a he had a couple of broken A-Lines near the center of the canopy. He decided to do a controllability check and see if he could land it. Right Turn, Left Turn both went fine, but when he did a practice flare, still up high, the canopy tried to pack itself again and he opted at that point to cutaway and pull his reserve... it ended up being an uneventful reserve ride and landing from there. The point to take away here... Just because the canopy has a broken line or two, still remains inflated and turns doesn't mean it will flare and set you on the ground nicely... when you really go to flare near the ground isn't the time to learn that. Something that goes with that is you may or may not want to dick around trying to figure that out up high, depends on a lot of factors, only to find out you wasted the time you did have doing that when you could have cutaway and deployed your reserve. OBTW... if you (or any up-jumper reading this) doesn't know which are the A,B,C & D-Lines on their canopy... their job is to find a rigger or an experienced jumper at the DZ the next time they're there to hang a canopy up and explain it... and then go buy beer. 3) You question is an age old one in skydiving. It has been discussed many times. As you may be beginning to gather, it "depends" on things such as, how many lines, which lines, and what type of canopy, to name a few... other things could also be your experience level and weather conditions. Which brings me to something my instructor, Ron, said way way back when I went through FJC... when going over malfunctions and emergency procedures was that rather then go through a dissertation of how many lines can be broken, which lines, if its these - its okay, could be 2 or e, if its those - this is bad if its even just 1... if you have broken lines, cutaway and go to your reserve; caveat, that was one instructors opinion in a FJC dealing with 1st time jumpers. 4) Personally, good, bad, right or wrong, my "plan" is if on opening I look up and get a face full of spaghetti and conclude "broken lines" is to cutaway and deploy my reserve rather then start counting numbers of broken lines. Especially if it was a hard opening and there may be addition damage not immediately noticed. Having said that though, if I did decide to hang onto it and see if it was landable, the FIRST thing I would do is a practice flare and if that didn't go well, I'd get rid of it. 5) Remember... "When In Doubt, Whip It Out" ... edit ... Another good rule to live by... 6) Never ever try to do rigging under canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ether 0 #28 October 13, 2007 Quote 5) Remember... "When In Doubt, Whip It Out" In the words of NickDG... that's a nugget.. Looking for newbie rig, all components... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brettski74 0 #29 October 23, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Quote Do you know what's really hard to estimate at 2000ft? Descent rate. Well unless you are wearing a neptune, then you will be able to tell exactly what your decent rate is...[Smile] Ah... Don't quite understand that. Lets say your steady state descent rate is doubled due to broken lines or a partial mal. At 2000ft it's very hard to tell the difference between 20ft/sec and 40ft/sec. Once you get down to 500ft or so, you have a frame of reference due to your proximity to the ground. One other thing to consider is that if your canopy is descending faster due to any of the above reasons, it is likely that it won't flare with as much power and or will stall at a higher airspeed. Doug The neptune display has decent rate in ft/sec. it is displayed underneath the altitude. I don't have a Neptune, but if I recall correctly from the ones I have seen, during freefall, it switches to freefall mode which displays just the altitude in giant numbers that fill the screen and nothing else, and when it is in a mode to display additional data like descent rate, it's in tiny little numbers at the bottom of the screen. Ever wonder why runners watches have big, giant numbers on them? It's cos the numbers on most digital watches are too small to read while running due to vibration. During a high speed malfunction, I really doubt that your arm will be steady enough to read those tiny numbers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #30 October 23, 2007 What did they teach you in FJC?My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
denete 3 #31 October 25, 2007 I know what I was taught...and I aint sayin. SCR #14809 "our attitude is the thing most capable of keeping us safe" (look, grab, look, grab, peel, punch, punch, arch) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
