Kris 0 #51 July 8, 2003 Quoteno one here has ever worried about someone jacking with their rig while it is just around? Nope. Never. Until this, I really didn't think it possible. I thought the incident in Germany a few years back was just a fluke one-off. My faith in humanity has just slipped another notch.Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
baa75 0 #52 July 8, 2003 Quoteno one here has ever worried about someone jacking with their rig while it is just around? Only because I have a Psycho Ex who used to jump. He's actually threatened to do things like that. He hasn't jumped in a while but I do still get a little paranoid. Never really even thought about anyone else messing with my stuff though. BettyAnn Getting married? Check out my website! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #53 July 8, 2003 "no one here has ever worried about someone jacking with their rig while it is just around?" Not maliciously, I do check a 'pre flight line' if there are kids around, who may have innocently messed with something. But lets face it folks, if someone wanted to do you in, then there is little you can do other than deprive them of the opportunity, by keeping your gear in sight or in its rig bag with a tamper indicator (padlock or similar), even that would not be considered 'foolproof'. Somebody could still inject your rig with superglue, or a 'nylon eating' compound, solvent, etc. And thats just your gear, I recall an incident a while back where somebody had strapped a plastic soft drinks bottle of petroleum to an aircraft engine. (don't ask me for specific details, they elude my alzheimer's riddled brain) There is a lot of trust involved in skydiving, when that trust vanishes, the sport changes. If you can't trust your fellow jumpers not to try and kill you, whether by accidental circumstance, carelessness, lack of skill, or deliberate intent, who are you going to jump with?-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iansandbach 0 #55 July 8, 2003 Quote"Somebody could still inject your rig with superglue, or a 'nylon eating' compound, solvent, etc" I think its better we keep stuff like this off here, it might be putting idea's into empty heads. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nacmacfeegle 0 #56 July 9, 2003 Oh come on Ian....Thats just one way, I can think up half a dozen other ways to mess someone's gear up that would pass a standard flight line check, some are quite exotic, like the solvent injection scenario, some are relatively straightforward. All I'm trying to do is demonstrate the futility of trying to prevent determined sabotage by locking your gear in a gear bag. I don't want people getting a false sense of security. If someone wants to mess with your gear they can and will, unless you keep it at home locked up and skydive all on your ownsome. In terms of security, lockers don't cut it, and as for keeping your gear in a car, well any kid from, oh lets see where do you live...Mold...Well any kid from Liverpool can gain access to your car in a matter of seconds. And don't think for a minute that car alarms would deter a would be murderer. Recently there was a documentary on prime-time TV showing the effects of a terrorist dirty bomb on London, the programme described the main ingredients for the device, a domestic firework, a pillar grinder and a radioactive source (industrial, say from an x-ray machine). I believe people should know how vulnerable they are to a determined criminal, and not delude themselves with a false sense of security. People might be a bit more vigilant if they are truly concerned (ie aware of the ease of tampering) about this.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites iansandbach 0 #57 July 9, 2003 >Oh come on Ian....Thats just one way, I can think up half a dozen other >ways to mess someone's >gear up that would pass a standard flight line > check, some are quite exotic, like the solvent injection scenario, some are relatively straightforward. So can i, but i dont think its wise to broadcast them over the internet. What if there's some fucked up member of joe public out there with no idea of how a rig works until he reads this forum ? As i said before, lets not put idea's into already empty heads. >All I'm trying to do is demonstrate the futility of trying to prevent determined >sabotage by locking your gear in a gear bag. I don't want people >getting a false sense of security. >If someone wants to mess with your gear they can and will, unless you keep it at home >locked up and skydive all on your ownsome. I dont think it is futile. Whilst i accept you can never eliminate the risk completey, you can substantially reduce it by being more vigilant and never letting your rig out of your sight. I know thats a pain in the arse but its a small price to pay. >In terms of security, lockers don't cut it, and as for keeping your gear in a car, >well any kid from, oh lets see where do you live...Mold...Well any kid >from Liverpool can gain access to your car in a matter of seconds. >And don't think for a minute that car alarms would deter a would be murderer. I think after this incident, the sound of a car alarm going off on a DZ would set a lot more alarm bells ringing !! >Recently there was a documentary on prime-time TV showing the effects of a >terrorist dirty bomb on London, the programme described the main >ingredients for the device, a domestic firework, a pillar grinder and a >radioactive source (industrial, say from an x-ray machine). I believe people >should know how vulnerable they are to a determined criminal, and not delude >themselves with a false sense of security. >People might be a bit more vigilant if they are truly concerned >(ie aware of the ease of tampering) about this. Absolutely right, i'm sure everyone is now only TOO aware of the ease of tampering, its just a shame we had to learn the hard way. 'E' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Remster 30 #58 July 9, 2003 QuoteI think after this incident, the sound of a car alarm going off on a DZ would set a lot more alarm bells ringing !! I think Dave'S point was that alarms can also be worked around.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Skyrad 0 #59 July 9, 2003 X ray machines don't contain anything radioactive. But I get your point, however an oppotunistic nutter might be detered by better security. My thoughts are with the friends and family.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nacmacfeegle 0 #60 July 9, 2003 Okay Ian, 'nuff said, point well made and taken. Skyrad, our weld x-ray/non destructive testing equipment contain isotopes, and its quite common to have level transmitters based on nucleonic systems. The point is, these aren't particularly well controlled.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Skyrad 0 #61 July 9, 2003 Ah Ha! (Firstly, point taken about security) but if they contain isotopes then they use gamma radiation not x rays as X rays are either produced in the outershells of the atom or by Bremstralung. Medical X ray machines work by bombarding a tungsten target (molibdinum in the case of mamographic tubes) with electrions. The X rays are only produced for milliseconds and the tube doesn't contain any radioactive material. When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Police 0 #62 July 10, 2003 Message from Detective Superintendent Colin Andrews, Senior Investigating officer into the death of Stephen Hilder. " The investigation into the death of Stephen is ongoing. I am appealing for your help. Many of you will have known him and enjoyed his company socially and through his love of skydiving. Someone knows who committed this vile act and I ask that you contact me in total confidence. You may have opinions or information as to how Stephen met his death. Was he killed,if so, why? or would he ever contemplate taking his own life. I need to speak to as many of his friends and associates as possible. Please contact the incident room if you have any information that could assist us. I would also like to thank the many who already have. Humberside Police, Scunthorpe Major Incident Room Tel 01724 282844 or e mail Colin.Andrews@Humberside.PNN.police.ukQuote Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites QuickDraw 0 #63 July 10, 2003 Hi Martin, are you able to give us any more details about how exactly the rig was sabortaged ? Have you got the opinions of qualified riggers on the damage done etc. ? I'm certain you will be given the utmost attention, as we are all horrified by this incident. Original username btw. -- Hope you don't die. -- I'm fucking winning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cpoxon 0 #64 July 18, 2003 Stephen's parents visited Hibaldstow yesterday. No further information but it's good this story is being kept to the forefront in an effort to bring it to a conclusion. Is this the best place for this? Doesn't really help the incidents forum. This forum is too general. Is there a discussion about it in the General Skydiving Forum? From http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_news/england/humber/3077127.stm QuoteMurdered skydiver's parents visit airfield Police investigating Mr Hilder's death have interviewed over 200 people The parents of murdered skydiver Stephen Hilder have visited the airfield where he died. The 20-year-old fell 13,000 feet to his death at Hibaldstow Airfield, near Brigg, Lincolnshire, on 4 July. A murder investigation was launched after it was revealed the cord on his main parachute and the strapping on his reserve chute were deliberately severed. Detectives have interviewed more than 200 people, including family, friends, teachers and fellow students at the Defence Academy in Shrivenham, Oxfordshire, and Bristol University. Paul and Mary Hilder, the parents of the Oxfordshire army cadet, went to the airfield on Thursday. They spoke to Detective Superintendent Colin Andrews who is leading the investigation. He said: "We are working closely with the family and were very pleased to see them." "We talked at length about the investigation and that communication will continue throughout the course of the inquiry." He added that although a motive had not yet been found he remained confident that the mystery would be solved. "We still have a lot of inquiries to make and there is some real hard spade work to put in, but we will get to the bottom of this and we will find out who killed Stephen. "I believe that the person responsible for Stephen's death has confided in another person and I am appealing to that individual to contact us and tell us what they know." Police are trying to piece together Mr Hilder's movements the night before his death. He attended a fancy dress party and karoke night at the skydiving centre on 3 July and officers want to know what time he left and where he went. A reconstruction of the events leading up to the Mr Hilder's death is to feature on the BBC 1's Crimewatch programme at 2100 BST on Thursday 24 July. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 3 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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nacmacfeegle 0 #56 July 9, 2003 Oh come on Ian....Thats just one way, I can think up half a dozen other ways to mess someone's gear up that would pass a standard flight line check, some are quite exotic, like the solvent injection scenario, some are relatively straightforward. All I'm trying to do is demonstrate the futility of trying to prevent determined sabotage by locking your gear in a gear bag. I don't want people getting a false sense of security. If someone wants to mess with your gear they can and will, unless you keep it at home locked up and skydive all on your ownsome. In terms of security, lockers don't cut it, and as for keeping your gear in a car, well any kid from, oh lets see where do you live...Mold...Well any kid from Liverpool can gain access to your car in a matter of seconds. And don't think for a minute that car alarms would deter a would be murderer. Recently there was a documentary on prime-time TV showing the effects of a terrorist dirty bomb on London, the programme described the main ingredients for the device, a domestic firework, a pillar grinder and a radioactive source (industrial, say from an x-ray machine). I believe people should know how vulnerable they are to a determined criminal, and not delude themselves with a false sense of security. People might be a bit more vigilant if they are truly concerned (ie aware of the ease of tampering) about this.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iansandbach 0 #57 July 9, 2003 >Oh come on Ian....Thats just one way, I can think up half a dozen other >ways to mess someone's >gear up that would pass a standard flight line > check, some are quite exotic, like the solvent injection scenario, some are relatively straightforward. So can i, but i dont think its wise to broadcast them over the internet. What if there's some fucked up member of joe public out there with no idea of how a rig works until he reads this forum ? As i said before, lets not put idea's into already empty heads. >All I'm trying to do is demonstrate the futility of trying to prevent determined >sabotage by locking your gear in a gear bag. I don't want people >getting a false sense of security. >If someone wants to mess with your gear they can and will, unless you keep it at home >locked up and skydive all on your ownsome. I dont think it is futile. Whilst i accept you can never eliminate the risk completey, you can substantially reduce it by being more vigilant and never letting your rig out of your sight. I know thats a pain in the arse but its a small price to pay. >In terms of security, lockers don't cut it, and as for keeping your gear in a car, >well any kid from, oh lets see where do you live...Mold...Well any kid >from Liverpool can gain access to your car in a matter of seconds. >And don't think for a minute that car alarms would deter a would be murderer. I think after this incident, the sound of a car alarm going off on a DZ would set a lot more alarm bells ringing !! >Recently there was a documentary on prime-time TV showing the effects of a >terrorist dirty bomb on London, the programme described the main >ingredients for the device, a domestic firework, a pillar grinder and a >radioactive source (industrial, say from an x-ray machine). I believe people >should know how vulnerable they are to a determined criminal, and not delude >themselves with a false sense of security. >People might be a bit more vigilant if they are truly concerned >(ie aware of the ease of tampering) about this. Absolutely right, i'm sure everyone is now only TOO aware of the ease of tampering, its just a shame we had to learn the hard way. 'E' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #58 July 9, 2003 QuoteI think after this incident, the sound of a car alarm going off on a DZ would set a lot more alarm bells ringing !! I think Dave'S point was that alarms can also be worked around.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #59 July 9, 2003 X ray machines don't contain anything radioactive. But I get your point, however an oppotunistic nutter might be detered by better security. My thoughts are with the friends and family.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #60 July 9, 2003 Okay Ian, 'nuff said, point well made and taken. Skyrad, our weld x-ray/non destructive testing equipment contain isotopes, and its quite common to have level transmitters based on nucleonic systems. The point is, these aren't particularly well controlled.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #61 July 9, 2003 Ah Ha! (Firstly, point taken about security) but if they contain isotopes then they use gamma radiation not x rays as X rays are either produced in the outershells of the atom or by Bremstralung. Medical X ray machines work by bombarding a tungsten target (molibdinum in the case of mamographic tubes) with electrions. The X rays are only produced for milliseconds and the tube doesn't contain any radioactive material. When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Police 0 #62 July 10, 2003 Message from Detective Superintendent Colin Andrews, Senior Investigating officer into the death of Stephen Hilder. " The investigation into the death of Stephen is ongoing. I am appealing for your help. Many of you will have known him and enjoyed his company socially and through his love of skydiving. Someone knows who committed this vile act and I ask that you contact me in total confidence. You may have opinions or information as to how Stephen met his death. Was he killed,if so, why? or would he ever contemplate taking his own life. I need to speak to as many of his friends and associates as possible. Please contact the incident room if you have any information that could assist us. I would also like to thank the many who already have. Humberside Police, Scunthorpe Major Incident Room Tel 01724 282844 or e mail Colin.Andrews@Humberside.PNN.police.ukQuote Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites QuickDraw 0 #63 July 10, 2003 Hi Martin, are you able to give us any more details about how exactly the rig was sabortaged ? Have you got the opinions of qualified riggers on the damage done etc. ? I'm certain you will be given the utmost attention, as we are all horrified by this incident. Original username btw. -- Hope you don't die. -- I'm fucking winning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cpoxon 0 #64 July 18, 2003 Stephen's parents visited Hibaldstow yesterday. No further information but it's good this story is being kept to the forefront in an effort to bring it to a conclusion. Is this the best place for this? Doesn't really help the incidents forum. This forum is too general. Is there a discussion about it in the General Skydiving Forum? From http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_news/england/humber/3077127.stm QuoteMurdered skydiver's parents visit airfield Police investigating Mr Hilder's death have interviewed over 200 people The parents of murdered skydiver Stephen Hilder have visited the airfield where he died. The 20-year-old fell 13,000 feet to his death at Hibaldstow Airfield, near Brigg, Lincolnshire, on 4 July. A murder investigation was launched after it was revealed the cord on his main parachute and the strapping on his reserve chute were deliberately severed. Detectives have interviewed more than 200 people, including family, friends, teachers and fellow students at the Defence Academy in Shrivenham, Oxfordshire, and Bristol University. Paul and Mary Hilder, the parents of the Oxfordshire army cadet, went to the airfield on Thursday. They spoke to Detective Superintendent Colin Andrews who is leading the investigation. He said: "We are working closely with the family and were very pleased to see them." "We talked at length about the investigation and that communication will continue throughout the course of the inquiry." He added that although a motive had not yet been found he remained confident that the mystery would be solved. "We still have a lot of inquiries to make and there is some real hard spade work to put in, but we will get to the bottom of this and we will find out who killed Stephen. "I believe that the person responsible for Stephen's death has confided in another person and I am appealing to that individual to contact us and tell us what they know." Police are trying to piece together Mr Hilder's movements the night before his death. He attended a fancy dress party and karoke night at the skydiving centre on 3 July and officers want to know what time he left and where he went. A reconstruction of the events leading up to the Mr Hilder's death is to feature on the BBC 1's Crimewatch programme at 2100 BST on Thursday 24 July. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 3 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
QuickDraw 0 #63 July 10, 2003 Hi Martin, are you able to give us any more details about how exactly the rig was sabortaged ? Have you got the opinions of qualified riggers on the damage done etc. ? I'm certain you will be given the utmost attention, as we are all horrified by this incident. Original username btw. -- Hope you don't die. -- I'm fucking winning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cpoxon 0 #64 July 18, 2003 Stephen's parents visited Hibaldstow yesterday. No further information but it's good this story is being kept to the forefront in an effort to bring it to a conclusion. Is this the best place for this? Doesn't really help the incidents forum. This forum is too general. Is there a discussion about it in the General Skydiving Forum? From http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_news/england/humber/3077127.stm QuoteMurdered skydiver's parents visit airfield Police investigating Mr Hilder's death have interviewed over 200 people The parents of murdered skydiver Stephen Hilder have visited the airfield where he died. The 20-year-old fell 13,000 feet to his death at Hibaldstow Airfield, near Brigg, Lincolnshire, on 4 July. A murder investigation was launched after it was revealed the cord on his main parachute and the strapping on his reserve chute were deliberately severed. Detectives have interviewed more than 200 people, including family, friends, teachers and fellow students at the Defence Academy in Shrivenham, Oxfordshire, and Bristol University. Paul and Mary Hilder, the parents of the Oxfordshire army cadet, went to the airfield on Thursday. They spoke to Detective Superintendent Colin Andrews who is leading the investigation. He said: "We are working closely with the family and were very pleased to see them." "We talked at length about the investigation and that communication will continue throughout the course of the inquiry." He added that although a motive had not yet been found he remained confident that the mystery would be solved. "We still have a lot of inquiries to make and there is some real hard spade work to put in, but we will get to the bottom of this and we will find out who killed Stephen. "I believe that the person responsible for Stephen's death has confided in another person and I am appealing to that individual to contact us and tell us what they know." Police are trying to piece together Mr Hilder's movements the night before his death. He attended a fancy dress party and karoke night at the skydiving centre on 3 July and officers want to know what time he left and where he went. A reconstruction of the events leading up to the Mr Hilder's death is to feature on the BBC 1's Crimewatch programme at 2100 BST on Thursday 24 July. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
