Smoking in the packing area?

[hackish 8]

I'm new to skydiving. I did my first jump - a solo while on vacation in NS. Upon returning home I decided to find a local DZ and work toward my solo license.

Nylon isn't too friendly to cigarettes. However I've noticed that nobody at the home DZ seems to care that the packer will do up a chute with a lit cigarette hanging out of his mouth. The guy who packs all the chutes isn't a jumper as he's over the weight limit. The packer isn't certified for anything and is there to make a few extra bucks. I think someone mentioned he's a friend of the owner so I get the feeling nobody wants to tick him off lest he decide not to pack for them anymore...

This seems like a glaring safety problem. I am a non-smoker and do find cigarette smoke quite offensive - so maybe I'm overreacting. I'm the newbie at the DZ and don't want to cause any problems.

How serious a problem would you consider this?

-Michael

[joe399 0]

Not allowed at my DZ. How far are you from other dz's?

[DougH 270]

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How serious a problem would you consider this?
[/

Serious enough for a swift kick in the arse!! It blows my mind that no one else minds?

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[hackish 8]

The DZ where I took the first jump course was very strict on that matter. Here in Quebec 1/2 the population seems to smoke. The only other DZ is more than an hour drive into the next province whereas this is about 10 minutes from my house.

Using a rented rig it's not likely that I'll be able to pack the chute I'm going to jump. It will be a long time before I can afford my own rig. The school only owns one student rig anyway. All their money seems to come in tandems.

So the short of it is if the experienced people here feel this is a very serious danger then I can quietly take it up with the school owners and let them take action. While I don't want to cause problems being the school whiner my own safety takes a higher precedence.

-Michael

[skyninja 0]

Sounds like a lot of exceptionally lazy jumpers, if they let him pack their gear while smoking. Don't let him pack anything you own, especially if you value your equipment. He's probably really good about not burning stuff though, or else somebody would've kicked the shit out of him already.

Why don't you just play 'chicken' on the railroad tracks? It would be a cheaper way to toy with death, I'm sure.

CWR #2 - "You SAID collision!"

[sagan 0]

Qualification Disclaimer - I don't know what I'm talking about i'm just throwing out ideas and personal experiences, go seek out an AFFI or see if one responds here. There's a ton of exp people here so I'm sure you'll get a better qualified answer... but since you asked:

Some things to consider (off the top of my head)

How big is the other DZ? Are there more instructors, rigs, etc, etc? Is it cheaper for students? Which DZ do you like the people better at? Which DZ will you most likely be jumping at after you get a license? i.e. if the small dz is a tandem factory only and the other has 10-15 fun jumpers on every load, you'll probably wanna jump at the larger one.

An hour is not unreasonable, I can think of a whole lot of people that drive 3-5 hours (each way). My current ride door to door is about 1.5 hours each way and that's the closest I had ever been to a DZ.

To give you anoter point of reference (which sounds like what your looking for), I've jumped at 6 DZ's, 3 medium sized ones, 1 small one, and 2 MAJOR ones (all except for small one were in the US). I've never seen someone pack whilst smoking. Pack then smoke, or smoke, then pack definitely but never together, and never "near" each other. If I saw that I'd probably ask a jumper I trusted (aff-i) about it.

-Patrick

[AFFI 0]

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The only other DZ is more than an hour drive into the next province whereas this is about 10 minutes from my house.

I drive 5 hours round trip to the DZ I jump at - there are closer DZs, but it is worth the drive to go where I am the safest...

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[Krip 2]

Hi

If you know the packer is smoking while working so does everyone else at the DZ. If there's a accident to the DZ/jumpers gear due to the cigs there will just be some holes in the nylon due to melting. Cold Ash's won't have any affect on the canopy

IMO Don't whine about the human chimney packing other peoples/DZ gear, it's still safe enough for you to jump.

Stay upwind of the human chimney so your temple doesn't get polluted from the second hand smoke, and when you get your own gear don't let him pack it.

Problem solved, Enjoy yourself, don't worry be happy.

[phoenixlpr 0]

There are countries where skydiving rules contain prohibition of smoking in a certain perimeter.

I hate smoking around skydiving rigs.

I don't know what those would think if I would start playing with fireworks next to their rig or jump suits....

[Scoop 0]

I'm pretty sure we're not even allowed food and drink in the packing shed

[pkasdorf 0]

Well!!..

1) I agree with your concern on smoking in the packing area and your concern on your relationship with the DZ people.

2) About the first one, it certainly can damage rigs, nobody is foolproof to be able to exclude accidents. The risk is there and it seems foolish to deny it. Plus the second hand smoke problem which I care about as you also certainly do.

3) About the second one, it's up to you to use the thoughts on this thread to talk to the DZ people or not. It is your evaluation of your chances of success and on how it could strain relations. If it's not possible, it also is your evaluation to choose to drive more hours as many people do.

Good luck! In your place I wouldn't stay if circumstances don't change but I can only respond for myself, I am not you. Whatever your decision, if you feel comfortable with it, it's a good decision.

HISPA # 18 POPS # 8757

[popsjumper 2]

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Nylon isn't too friendly to cigarettes. However I've noticed that nobody at the home DZ seems to care that the packer will do up a chute with a lit cigarette hanging out of his mouth.

Not MY gear. A cigarette around my gear earns a good swift kick in the ass. I'm a smoker and if I want burns in my gear, I'll do it...not somebody else.

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I get the feeling nobody wants to tick him off lest he decide not to pack for them anymore...

You ARE allowed to ask him NOT to smoke while packing your stuff. That doesn't preclude him walking around your stuff while smoking but at least it might minimize the accident rate.


There is one local DZ I rarely jump. Part of the reason is that they allow smoking in the packing area and the smokers there are completely oblivious to the problems they present and not a damn one of them would offer to pay for damages when they cause it.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[tombuch 0]

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This seems like a glaring safety problem. I am a non-smoker and do find cigarette smoke quite offensive - so maybe I'm overreacting. I'm the newbie at the DZ and don't want to cause any problems.

How serious a problem would you consider this?

-Michael

It's not really a safety problem. It does add the risk of cigarette burns in the canopy, but they are small and won't kill you. Cigarette holes degrade the rig, but it would take a pretty huge hole to create a safety hazard. In a subsequent post you mention you use a rented school rig, so I wouldn't worry so much about the actual damage. On the other hand, I would not allow him to pack my own rig, nor would I pack my rig near a smoker. When it's my own gear, any damage or potential for damage is too much. Allowing smoking in a packing area is very bad form, and would make me question the rest of the operation.

I'd also look at the issue of second hand smoke, and the disrespect the packer is showing to everybody in the packing area. As a customer I'm like you and really hate cigarette smoke and I avoid places where I'm likely to encounter it. From your description, it sounds like this drop zone has serious problems with customer service.

I'll also note that allowing a non rigger to pack student gear can be a safety risk unless he is very well trained and supervised. There are some terrific packers without rigger certificates, and actually jumping isn't a requirement to get a rigger certificate, so don't use this issue as a stand-alone reason to go elsewhere. But, it is a red flag.

My thinking here is that you should probably investigate other drop zones. You may decide to stay where you are, but it might be worth traveling a bit further to find a better DZ.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[peregrinerose 0]

I'm with everyone else.. the odds of it posing a safety problem are slim, but it's still stupid to be smoking while packing. There's no way in hell I'd let someone smoke anywhere near my gear. As a packer, it's easy to tell who smokes in their house/car with their rig there.... some of the canopies absolutely STINK from it when packing.

Our non-rigger packers are very well supervised by a master rigger, often two of them. No food or drink is allowed anywhere near the packing area. I think the DZO would probably have a massive coronary if anyone tried to smoke while packing.... that packer would most likely find himself out of work. No one is allowed to smoke while wearing student gear as well.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[ChrisL 2]

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How serious a problem would you consider this?

-Michael

Severe.

Anyone comes near my canopy with a lit smoke and its their ass.
I paid WAY too much money for it to allow some douche bag to burn little holes in it.

__

My mighty steed

[hackish 8]

Thanks for the responses. I guess I'll let the smoking issue pass. By the time I can afford my own gear I'll be packing it myself.

As for a non-rigger packing I went about asking a bunch of packing questions but quickly learned that the guy doesn't know anything about what he's doing - just how to do it.

I'm not saying this is necessarily unsafe as a master rigger is around and in charge of all the ground operations and the packer does seem to be able to recognise anything that doesn't look right... I was mainly concerned about a cigarette burn causing a safety related failure.

-Michael

[tdog 0]

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Here in Quebec 1/2 the population seems to smoke. The only other DZ is more than an hour drive into the next province whereas this is about 10 minutes from my house.

Are you sure it is only 1/2? I was there for a week for work and remember going to get a bite to eat and not being able to see the other side of the "nicest restaurant in town" our vendor took us to.

It seems it is a cultural thing in your 'hood, that smoking anywhere and everywhere (packing hangar) is culturally expected.

I am with other people. A small burn hole in a rig will not kill you. If anything, the burn will be safer than a stick that would tear the canopy, as the burn will melt the threads and prevent fraying threads, whereas a stick leaves a frayed tear.

In fact, PD uses some kind of laser/cutter to burn little dots into the fabric to serial number the fabric pieces. The factory does it on purpose (although not with a cigarette).

But, I would gladly drive an extra hour to a DZ that is smoke free.

[AFFI 0]

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This seems like a glaring safety problem. I am a non-smoker and do find cigarette smoke quite offensive - so maybe I'm overreacting.

Is it an indoor packing area?

If is an indoor packing area, then there is the second hand smoke issue, if it is outdoor, then you are over reacting, stay upwind.

Like many others have stated, a small cig burn will not cause you to burn in (there’s a pun) - I have only been skydiving for 10 years, but have yet to jump somewhere where smoking is allowed in the packing area - so to me that is just weird.
I am with the aforementioned kick in the ass is someone got near my gear with a lit cigarette.

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[riggerrob 643]

Minor legal point: you do not need a rigger's license to pack mains in Canada, just a CSPA Main Packing Endorsement.

On the original topic: smoking near parachutes is a filthy, disgusting habit that is banned near all school gear in Pitt Meadows.

[lekstrom10k 0]

I tihnk a nice sing might be
just because your smoking habit cost more then my gear dont punish me by burning it. Smoke outside at the interstate rest stop about 15 miles from here

[NewGuy2005 53]

Worse than the cigarette burns is that the smoke will ruin the excellent smell that skydiving gear has.

[hackish 8]

I don't know what the rules say about packing. I've watched the guy pack and yes he's careful but I wasn't aware of someone requiring a license to pack.

-Michael

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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I don't know what the rules say about packing. I've watched the guy pack and yes he's careful but I wasn't aware of someone requiring a license to pack.

-Michael

They don't. That's an American thing.

[Lastchance 0]

I've posted about this before but here goes anyway. In my 2nd yr jumping I was smoking in the packing area when a long time jumper said to me that somebody would be awful pissed off at me if I burned a hole in their parachute. I went home that night and smoked my last cigarette. I weighed the good against bad and gave them up. It will be 3 yrs on July 29th. Best damn thing I ever did for myself. My wife quit 6 months later. Now when I see anybody smoking in the packing area, I tell them what Bob told me.

I may be getting old but I got to see all the cool bands.

[DeNReN 0]

I would ASSume that you jumped at ASS for your 1st jump ...here we are not allowed to smoke nor eat and drink on the packing matt...a bottle of water may not get anyones attention..however a lit cig near the matt will.

Smokers are welcome at our DZ despite our DZO's hatred of smoking...just keep away from the gear!!!

As a smoker of 28 years I would never pack with a smoke in my mouth...and as others have said...anyone disrespecting my gear or my friends gear in that mannor would find themselves at the unpopular end of my patiance....

I quit one year ago July 18/06...but would still slit someone's throat for a smoke at times...

If thats actually allowed and your not a troll...........then its simple........dont jump there and please let me/us know as to never visit that DZ.