Matrix Reloaded...

[Zenister 0]

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we dont have enough background on the previous matrixes...

In the name of Uber-geekdom the plural of matrix is Matrices..

you know i thought about that as i was typing then forgot to go back and fix it..

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[aneblett 0]

Excellent!

I was worried that I was going to have to recommend to the board that your geek card be revoked and your privileges recinded.

S.E.X. party #2

..It is far worse to live with fear, than to die confronting it.

[FallingILweenie 0]

how many classes of geek cards are there? i know i am a card carrying Simpsons geek.

[Tumble 0]

Actually both matrices and matrixes are correct.
From dictionary.com:

1 entry found for matrixes.
ma·trix ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mtrks)
n. pl. ma·tri·ces (mtr-sz, mtr-) or ma·trix·es
A situation or surrounding substance within which something else originates, develops, or is contained: “Freedom of expression is the matrix, the indispensable condition, of nearly every form of freedom” (Benjamin N. Cardozo).
The womb.
Anatomy.
The formative cells or tissue of a fingernail, toenail, or tooth.
See ground substance.
Geology.
The solid matter in which a fossil or crystal is embedded.
Groundmass.
A mold or die.
The principal metal in an alloy, as the iron in steel.
A binding substance, as cement in concrete.

Mathematics. A rectangular array of numeric or algebraic quantities subject to mathematical operations.
Something resembling such an array, as in the regular formation of elements into columns and rows.
Computer Science. The network of intersections between input and output leads in a computer, functioning as an encoder or a decoder.
Printing.
A mold used in stereotyping and designed to receive positive impressions of type or illustrations from which metal plates can be cast. Also called mat2.
A metal plate used for casting typefaces.
An electroplated impression of a phonograph record used to make duplicate records.


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[Middle English matrice, from Old French, from Late Latin mtrx, mtrc-, from Latin, breeding-animal, from mter, mtr-, mother. See mter- in Indo-European Roots.]
Just another geek posting

[aneblett 0]

I will bring this to the attention of "the board" immedialtely....

S.E.X. party #2

..It is far worse to live with fear, than to die confronting it.

[skreamer 1]

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uh the movie (and the book you may have heard of it) is called "Return of the King"

Attend quite a few Star Trek conventions do you? Boy, you guys must be a whole lot of fun to be around when the beer light comes on!

[AggieDave 6]

Funny story:

I went to the midnight/opening showing of LOTR, was there 5hrs early and still got crappy seats. Anyways, there were ppl dressed up and stuff, which is cool, but not my thing, we watch the movie, I get up and turn to FlyingFerret (who was with me) "damnit, I thought this was about Clone Wars, I didn't see a single damned light sabre." Some guy dressed like a wizard looked like he wanted to kick my ass, he didn't realize I've read the books and am a big fan, but with a sense of humor.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Cornholio 0]

After extensive thought and deliberation on this movie, I have to agree with someone else (on another forum site) about the conversation with the Architect.

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Here's the entire conversation between the Architect and Neo in text form. It should lay a lot of rumours to rest.

The Full Conversation between the Architect and Neo *Text Form*
The Architect - Hello, Neo.

Neo - Who are you?

The Architect - I am the Architect. I created the matrix. Ive been waiting for you. You have many questions, and although the process has altered your consciousness, you remain irrevocably human. Ergo, some of my answers you will understand, and some of them you will not. Concordantly, while your first question may be the most pertinent, you may or may not realize it is also irrelevant.

Neo - Why am I here?

The Architect - Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly, which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden to sedulously avoid it, it is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you, inexorably, here.

Neo - You haven't answered my question.

The Architect - Quite right. Interesting. That was quicker than the others.

*The responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: "Others? What others? How many? Answer me!"*
(I dont agree with whoever wrote this, I think that the monitors are showing Neo's possible answers, possible hinting that there are alternatives to his actions (and hence the choice issue comes up). Also, the camera zooms in on Neo's current response, showing the choice made.)

The Architect - The matrix is older than you know. I prefer counting from the emergence of one integral anomaly to the emergence of the next, in which case this is the sixth version.

*Again, the responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: "Five versions? Three? I've been lied too. This is bull****."*

Neo: There are only two possible explanations: either no one told me, or no one knows.

The Architect - Precisely. As you are undoubtedly gathering, the anomaly's systemic, creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations.

*Once again, the responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: "You can't control me! **** you! I'm going to kill you! You can't make me do anything!*

Neo - Choice. The problem is choice.

*The scene cuts to Trinity fighting an agent, and then back to the Architects room*

The Architect - The first matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect, it was a work of art, flawless, sublime. A triumph equaled only by its monumental failure. The inevitability of its doom is as apparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being, thus I redesigned it based on your history to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature. However, I was again frustrated by failure. I have since come to understand that the answer eluded me because it required a lesser mind, or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus, the answer was stumbled upon by another, an intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother.

Neo - The Oracle.

The Architect - Please. As I was saying, she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99.9% of all test subjects accepted the program, as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at a near unconscious level. While this answer functioned, it was obviously fundamentally flawed, thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly, that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. Ergo, those that refused the program, while a minority, if unchecked, would constitute an escalating probability of disaster.

Neo - This is about Zion.

The Architect - You are here because Zion is about to be destroyed. Its every living inhabitant terminated, its entire existence eradicated.

Neo - Bull****.

*The responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: "Bull****!"*

The Architect - Denial is the most predictable of all human responses. But, rest assured, this will be the sixth time we have destroyed it, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it.

*Scene cuts to Trinity fighting an agent, and then back to the Architects room.*

The Architect - The function of the One is now to return to the source, allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry, reinserting the prime program. After which you will be required to select from the matrix 23 individuals, 16 female, 7 male, to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash killing everyone connected to the matrix, which coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race.

Neo - You won't let it happen, you cant. You need human beings to survive.

The Architect - There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. However, the relevant issue is whether or not you are ready to accept the responsibility for the death of every human being in this world.

*The Architect presses a button on a pen that he is holding, and images of people from all over the matrix appear on the monitors*

The Architect - It is interesting reading your reactions. Your five predecessors were by design based on a similar predication, a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the one. While the others experienced this in a very general way, your experience is far more specific. Vis-a-vis, love.

*Images of Trinity fighting the agent from Neos dream appear on the monitors*

Neo - Trinity.

The Architect - Apropos, she entered the matrix to save your life at the cost of her own.

Neo - No!

The Architect - Which brings us at last to the moment of truth, wherein the fundamental flaw is ultimately expressed, and the anomaly revealed as both beginning, and end. There are two doors. The door to your right leads to the source, and the salvation of Zion. The door to the left leads back to the matrix, to her, and to the end of your species. As you adequately put, the problem is choice. But we already know what you're going to do, don't we? Already I can see the chain reaction, the chemical precursors that signal the onset of emotion, designed specifically to overwhelm logic, and reason. An emotion that is already blinding you from the simple, and obvious truth: she is going to die, and there is nothing that you can do to stop it.

*Neo walks to the door on his left*

The Architect - Humph. Hope, it is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength, and your greatest weakness.

Neo - If I were you, I would hope that we don't meet again.

The Architect - We won't.

Points you should take from this thing.

1.The anamoly they are talking about are the people in Zion.
2.They are the 0.1 percent of the human race that doesn't accept the revised matrix they are using now.
3. Number 2 isn't a very big problem because they can keep it under control.
4. Neo was created by the machine to study why Number 2 happens, hence his knowledge, emotion and thoughts combined with the oracle's studies of the human psyche are compiled together and sent back to the source for the machine to try to perfect the matrix so that the acceptance rate for matrix becomes 100%.
5. Oracle came up with the theory that the current matrix would achieve a very high acceptance rate if the people were given the power of choice, even if it were on a subconcious level. Like I mentioned earlier, they managed a 99.9% acceptance rate with the current matrix as opposed to the first one where very few accepted and "entire crops were lost".
6. Oracle isn't good or bad, she's just a program doing what she's designed to do which is to help to find The One and get him to the source.
7. Although 0.1% is very low, eventually they add up so the zion needs to purged and matrix needs to be reloaded so to speak, hence the name I guess.
8. All the above has happened 5 times and the matrix was reset 5 times. But this time(6th) Neo chose to risk everything instead of resetting the Matrix. Presumably because he is in love with Trinity.

I personally think that the movie can be summed up in one sentence in item #4.

Butthead: Whoa! Burritos for breakfast!
Beavis: Yeah! Yeah! Cool!
bellyflier on the dz.com hybrid record jump

[Zenister 0]

quiet you..i'm quite a bit better with a sword than the kid in the video. we could push peices of you out slowly so at least a few would actually land on the DZ

edit: heya Corn, i already posted that text once!

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[brits17 0]

well i haven't surfed through the 7 pages of posts, but in response to billvon on the 2nd page...

the 2nd time i saw it i really picked up on the biblical analogies, as i did in the first. many things are very obvious (ie: the ship's name 'nebechadnezzar' sp?), zion (the last city standing as in revelation) as well as the continuation of neo as jesus (the one), morpheus... i was a little confused on him. it seemed to me in the 1st one that he was God, yet here, it seems as if he was compared to a great prophet (ie: john or someone), dude at the end (the matrix architect) as satan...
it definately portrays spiritual warfare in such a way thats incredibly creative and is intriguing and entertaining to the general public.

all in all, i'm glad i saw it again, i picked up a lot more than the first time i saw it.

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aerialkinetics.com

[Casch 0]

I found that the second time I saw it, I practically slept through the action scenes. I was more interested in watching the story line to catch anything that I had missed.

[brits17 0]

me too exactly! the first time i was intrigued by the fighting scenes, but was left confused. the second time i payed attention and linked it to the first following the storyline.

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aerialkinetics.com

[jtval 0]

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how many classes of geek cards are there? i know i am a card carrying Simpsons geek.

I bet they at least have their coach ratings

as a dumb computer guy who went to see the movie on 1 hour and 30 minutes sleep I liked parts of it and kinda clouded over when the architech was speaking. I got the main gist butthere was some things I was trying to follow in reltion to programming etc that wnet way over my head


I suggest readin alice in wonder land to get as grip on this movie

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[billvon 2,991]

>4. Neo was created by the machine to study why Number 2 happens,
> hence his knowledge, emotion and thoughts combined with the
> oracle's studies of the human psyche are compiled together and
> sent back to the source for the machine to try to perfect the matrix
> so that the acceptance rate for matrix becomes 100%.

Going from the Architect's speech, he is more a side effect than an intentional creation. He is indeed studied and his reactions compiled, but this is so that _fewer_ of him (i.e. people who reject the matrix) are created. There is some evidence that this is not working; this version of the One seems, from the Architect's admission, smarter than the rest.

Saying the oracle is feeding her studies into the next version of the matrix may be assigning more cooperation between parts of the 'matrix management' that really exists. Clearly we have Smith, a still-powerful no longer under control of the matrix management. (There was evidence of this in the first episode as well.) We have the oracle who appears to be relatively independent of the rest of the matrix. We have Merovingian who is cognizant of the basic functioning of the matrix but is neither on Zion's nor the management's side.

[Cornholio 0]

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Going from the Architect's speech, he is more a side effect than an intentional creation. He is indeed studied and his reactions compiled, but this is so that _fewer_ of him (i.e. people who reject the matrix) are created

Exactly, except for the part about Neo being a side effect. It was planned for Neo to be pulled from the Matrix to find out what makes humans tick. Neo was created as a troubleshooting mechanism. He is to gather data from the humans and then report this back to the source. The source will then use this data to further perfect the next version of the matrix to attempt to achieve 100% acceptance. If there is 100% acceptance, then there is no further need for Zion as there will be no more anomolies.

Butthead: Whoa! Burritos for breakfast!
Beavis: Yeah! Yeah! Cool!
bellyflier on the dz.com hybrid record jump

[Zenister 0]

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Going from the Architect's speech, he is more a side effect than an intentional creation. He is indeed studied and his reactions compiled, but this is so that _fewer_ of him (i.e. people who reject the matrix) are created

Exactly, except for the part about Neo being a side effect. It was planned for Neo to be pulled from the Matrix to find out what makes humans tick. Neo was created as a troubleshooting mechanism. He is to gather data from the humans and then report this back to the source. The source will then use this data to further perfect the next version of the matrix to attempt to achieve 100% acceptance. If there is 100% acceptance, then there is no further need for Zion as there will be no more anomolies.

i dont think Neo is planned at all. His capture (or return) and then extracting of data e to restart Zion is planned, but thats a reaction to the anomolie not an intent from the beginning..

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[FliegendeWolf 0]

Is it possible that Neo himself is actually a program? A bit of code which, in the words of the Oracle, has a purpose and is fulfilling it?

A One that Isn't Cold is Scarcely a One at All

[Remster 30]

[whisper mode] its just a movie [/whisper mode]

Remster

[MattM 0]

[whisper] go away and don't read this thread then [/whisper]

Matt

[Zenister 0]

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Is it possible that Neo himself is actually a program? A bit of code which, in the words of the Oracle, has a purpose and is fulfilling it?

well i think one of the points of the movie (philosophically) is that everyone is a 'program' in that way "has a purpose and is fulfilling it"

but for Neo to be a program then the speculation about everything taking place inside the matrix must be true and Neo would be the most clever and complex bit of programing ever..programs doubt? love? dream?

(of course that would be a great excuse for Keanu's acting )

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[FliegendeWolf 0]

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but for Neo to be a program then the speculation about everything taking place inside the matrix must be true and Neo would be the most clever and complex bit of programing ever..programs doubt? love? dream?

But the whole Matrix is pretty clever programming when you get down to it...and consider Agent Smith who has his own desires and agenda.

It seems to me that if a machine were to infiltrate the human world, the best way to do it without raising suspicion is to make the machine unaware of its own machine nature. We have also seen Agent Smith infiltrate the human world, so it can be done within the rules of the movies.

Being just another subroutine would explain Keanu's acting, but it would also explain why his skills are so far beyond those of the other humans.

A One that Isn't Cold is Scarcely a One at All

[Magistr8 0]

If Neo was really a program created by the matix then it seems that he would loose all of his powers when he left. how do we explain how he disables the "Sentinals" at the end of the second movie?

Neo is something of a trash bin in the eyes of the matrix. He is the sum of a remainder in an otherwise perfect equation. Although he is not a program his identity in the matrix is stacked as more and more equations are unbalanced. Therefore in time he becomes more powerful and that is why it takes so long to find him.

Just a theory I am playing with.

[Remster 30]

I think Neo is a sexual fantasy program created by the Oracle… Think about it… meetings in the park, at her bachelor pad… very clandestine I’d say.

Remster

[jtval 0]

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how do we explain how he disables the "Sentinals" at the end of the second movie?

it wasnt Neo who did that..it was coincidence!
the EMP was triggered if he was a program then he would go into some sort of coma like state while he was infected AKA shorted out

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[Magistr8 0]

I'm not sure it was a coincidence, he was able to feel the sentinals and they ran into a wall when he put his hand out. Based on the last movie, when an emp was triggered, the sentinals just dropped flat.

I am wondering why he went into a coma and how agent smith was able to leave the matrix. This also tells me is that agent smith actually able to leave the matrix many times through different people.

"Impossible is a word to be found only in the dictionary of fools." Napoleon Bonaparte