Marriage coming close to hitting Critical Mass--

[Dumpster 0]

Time for me to dump big time on my fellow DZ.commers here-

And "THANKS" in advance to all skydivers in general for being such cool people!

The wife tells me I've become a totally different person since I've started jumping - (3 years ago, and this season has been my best as far as frequency goes- On a 4-way team and averaging 5-10 jumps a week)

Her major complaint (as I perceive it-) is that I eat, sleep, and think nothing but skydiving all the time. According to her she and I have very little in common anymore. (I still have a monster sex drive, but don't get to share it with her, she says hers has dwindled. Hers used to be really strong, too- She is also 7 years my senior - I am 40 )

I can't remember what the "old Lenny" (pre-skydiving-) was like- I wonder what I/we did on Saturdays before this- other than sleeping off hangovers and working. I ask her what she plans on doing Satuday and she says - "clean house" So I go to the DZ, after making sure all my house chores are done during the week.

I try to share what we do, and how cool it is, and try to get her to come to the DZ but to no avail. I feel like she doesn't even want to try to dig it. If she does come to a DZ she sits and is anti-social.

We now have my 16 year old daughter living with us, who absolutely loves the sport, even though she has yet to make a single jump. She is learning how to pack for our RW teams.

I would love to keep the marriage together, but I don't want to be one of those guys who quit jumping because of his wife/ girlfriend. If I ever quit it will be due to medical reasons or old age, whatever that is.

I will admit to having what may be a bit of an obsessive personality. I rarely do anything halfway.

I really don't want to go through the pain of another divorce, but at least there won't be kids involved this time.

I thank her all the time for allowing me to indulge myself, and I find ways to pay for my jumping so we won't burden our finances.

The house keeps getting colder all the time in spite of what I try to do to compensate - Flowers for no reason, I even had a masseur come to the house by surprise just for her.

Now this may be the death knell-

We have a date to see a marriage counselor.

- Everyone I've talked to who has gone to one has wound up getting divorced.

I don't plan on giving up skydiving, wether we stay together or not-

If this marriage totally funnels and we cut away, I hope I get a decent reserve ride-

Either way, I know I've got some cool people to fall back on.

Sorry for the long post - but I just had to get it off my chest - I know this sport has split up a number of relationships - Ours won't be the first, or the last.

Now I'm off to do some shopping with my daughter Sarah- And we're headed to the DZ in the morning!!

Thanks and Blues! to everyone!

-Lenny

Easy Does It

[dzdiva 7]

Wow! I wish you all the best. At least you're willing to try to work things out.

"It's not just a daydream if you choose to make it your life..."

[Dumpster 0]

Thank you so much!

Easy Does It

[PhreeZone 20]

Sounds like you've decided that jumping is more important then the marriage. Thats one decision, but just look at Parachutist and see how many people last past 5 years. I think the average was something like 3-5 years, 350-700 jumps is the average span of most jumpers careers. Out off all the instructors that were at the DZ when I started 4 years ago only 3 are still there. Thats out of 15 instructors. Look around the DZ and see how many people have more then 1000 or even 1500 jumps. Its not many... No one wants to admit that they will burn out of the sport, but statisics say almost everyone will.

Do you want to come home to an empty house in 3 years, no longer be jumping and realize that your marriage fell apart over someting you don't even care about anymore?

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Layton 0]

Ok im one that has gone to a marriage counselor and am still married.one bit of advice on going to see this person.you are paying for this.so when you are asked a question awnser honestly and if you have questions by all means ask! we had some troubles a few years back and we went to see a really good counselor.things tooka while to work out but we now get along better than we ever have.does your wife have a problem with your daughter? My youngest from a previous marrige lived with us for a year and my daughter was veery hard to deal with but thats another story.My question is if your wife wants you to quit skydiving what will she want you to quit next?my wife took the first jump course did her jump and decided to not pursue jumping but told my well i see why you do this and you will not hear me complain about yur jumping and she doesnt.our days off are different my days off are sat. sun.hers are sun. mon. so i jump on saturday and we spent sunday together and then she has the day to herself on mondays so it works out well with us. good luck and let us know how things turn out.***if you are going to be stupid you better be tough

[Michele 1]

Wow, Lenny, that's rough.

Counseling is a good choice. It may be really hard, but stick with it, even if it feels like you're not getting anywhere. Lots of times, counseling can be confrontive - my parents took it, it didn't keep the marriage together, but made for an easier divorce. So stay with it, confrontive or not; as Layton said, honesty is vital for it to work. We build walls around ourselves because we fear hurt, fear loss. We do what we can to placate ourselves however we can, because we are scared of things not being good enough. You're good enough; she's good enough. And maybe, instead of building your good stuff up together, it's coming apart. The only way to really tell is to be brutally honest with yourself, and with your therapist.

If divorce is what comes, then let it come. Don't be too angry, allow it to take it's course, realize you are your own person, before, during and after the divorce. It's your choice, mostly, how you will react to whatever is going on. Find a good, listening friend, and talk it out. There are many here who would listen, myself included. Reach out and talk, should you need to. Grieve, but move toward another goal.

I am always wary when I hear it's about skydiving...I don't think it is, in my opinion. It's about something else, some other fear/loss, and cloaks it's self in an easy excuse. For my ex, when sex stopped, he attributed it to I had put on weight. Yes, I had, but the truth is that he was attracted to men...when a person is not honest with the real issue, then excuses come through. And if you listen to your heart, you will know when you're being dishonest, and you will also know when you are being lied to...even if the liar doesn't realize they're lying. And sometimes they don't.

Maybe you will be married this time next year, and maybe not. But you will still be you, with all your perfections and imperfections. be true and honest to yourself, and you will manage to come through this. And as I said, there are many who will listen.

Many hugs, Lenny.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[TheRus 0]

Dude, I am mid-divorce as we speak so I can totally sympathize with you. Mine is going under for different reasons but I feel ya just the same man...

You got one thing right for sure - this is probably THE most supportive group of folks on the planet!

PM anytime you feel the need to...

Yeah, it's fine, we'll walk down the line. Leave our rain, a cold trade for warm sunshine
You my friend, I will defend... and if we change, well, I love you anyway

[slowpoke 0]

Let me be provocative. I think that your should divorce and release your wife to get on with her life. Have you thought about why she is so against you jumping? Let me give you a possibility: maybe she is so concerned about you and your safety that she can not bare to witness your demise (Ok people lets not argue the safety angle).

I have the same problem, but we agreed to disagree and comfort each other with love and affection whenever possible.

Your very thinly veiled assertion that she is boring and menopausal is just offensive. Have you thought that you may be boring one and have nothing to offer other that a hump or two. No matter how good you are, she may not be interested in yells like “alti, reach, pull” while she is "servicing' you. She can probably do better by her self.

Read your own the post again. I expect this kind of thing from an emotional 18 year old whining about his gf.. At least you can do is “cc” this to your wife and let her join the discussion. Hey why not!.. the rest of the world is now privy to your private life!! At least we can hear her side of the story. What will you do when she actually finds out about this post? Your profile provides us with all the info needed for someone to let her know. What about Sarah, what will she think about this?

I think that you are tying to ditch her and need some support from this community to do so. Do you really want too be cool? Go home, stop talking about skydiving and get a life. Separate you life into skydive and home life"compartments" and enjoy each, but never try to combine the two as they are not compatible. I have leaned this from a very cool 20 year old.

As for the skydivers being cool people. Debatable. I am new to the sport (AFF student) and what I see is a collection of interesting people. At the moment I am enthusiastic, but I can also see how I can get very bored with the small, incestuous community with very limited interests and conversation topics (forgive me people, but I think that this is very true).

Slow

“True identity concealed to protect the guilty”

[Unstable 9]

Best Wishes from over here. I REALLY wish you two the best - no person should have to go throught the pain of a divorce, it isn't something i would wish upon ANYBODY.
I hope your counselor helps. I'm glad that you had the sense to seek professional help, you owe it to yourself, your relationship, and your significant other.
I don't mean to sound like a preacher, but maybe taking some time away from the sport would be a good thing in your life right now. Losing a good hobby and a lifestyle is one thing, losing your loved one is another. Spend some saturday with her - take her out for a day.

Best wishes. You have the privilage of being in a sport that behaves like a family, so know that your skydiving brothers & sisters will always be there for you.

Blue Skies,

=========Shaun ==========

[Michele 1]

Dear slow...

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with very limited interests and conversation topics

I think that, having been here a little while, you would've discovered far more about this community than that...considering this is your third post, and the only one I can find on here (I guess the other two were deleted?), I would guess you haven't spent a terrible amount of time understanding what's going on.

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I have the same problem, but we agreed to disagree and comfort each other with love and affection whenever possible.

I am glad you and your significant other have managed something which some people can't, and for that, a hearty congratulations to you both! How about sharing how that conversation went, and what it was like, and how you came up with a solution instead of threatening (to me, at least) to tell the family this post exists? That would be constructive, rather than destructive; helpful rather than detrimental; campassionate rather than critical.

Just my thoughts...

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[Snowwhite 0]

Ok, ole timer here. Been married 29 years. Longer than alot of you have been alive. Marriage counseling 16 years ago, musta worked, we're still here. We have a very non traditional marriage, he lives in South Carolina, I live in Illinois. We have been living apart in various together ways for the last seven years, not because we want to, but because of necessity. We went to the WFFC in Quincy 6 years ago as whuffos, because we wanted something that we could do 'together' and I got hooked. Not on skydiving, but on the life. I have been a part of the WFFC staff for the last 5 years. He started jumping this year.

Now for the advice. A person attempts to control another by limiting where they can go, who they can go with, how long they can be there, who they can talk to, what they can talk about. And they make it sound like "you don't love me if you talk to,, go to,,, talk with...The issue is not where you were, what you were doing, who you were doing it with, how long you were there, well you get the idea. The issue is CONTROL. When this(skydiving) issue is cleared up, there will be another control issue, and another and another. The unfortunate thing is, the CONTROLING individual rarely sees this.
You have two choices. And I would never be the one to tell you which one is the choice for you... Force the divorce issue, and make her face her controling ways (and risk her not recognizing her problem and continuing with the divorce). Or live with the control and ignore her whining when it comes to skydiving, and be ready to deflect the next type of control, and the next, and the next......If you want to know which one of these worked for me,,,,,pm me......

skydiveTaylorville.org
freefallbeth@yahoo.com

[wmw999 2,485]

Good luck, Dumpster. All I can say is to listen, and don't ignore stuff just because it's uncomfortable. There are two people in any relationship, and she has to want it to continue, and you have to want it to continue.

Once you both decide that, then you can work on how to make your joint life continue, rather than your individual ones. They're a critical part of it.

And while I'm not evidence of it, I know a number of people who are still married and have used marriage counseling. It's not a sign of failure, it's an investment.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[leroydb 0]

ditto to what she said

Leroy


..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

[Dumpster 0]

Thanks to one and all for your insight. I knew I was coming to one of the best places for some support.

I've got alot of thoughts going through my brain right now, it's gonna be fun sorting them out. Right now it's time to relax, and get to bed-

Thanks again!

-Blues!

Easy Does It

[dzdiva 7]

Good night!

"It's not just a daydream if you choose to make it your life..."

[slowpoke 0]

Hi Michele,

I don't expect anyone to agree, but if my reply forces Lenny to have a second look at his situation it will achieve something positive, I hope.

I appreciate your gentle methods of trying to reinforce the post etiquette, but I think that you should also read the two posts and consider this from the side of people who can not defend or put their side of the story across. I guess that I see people at my DZ with the same attitude: spend the whole weekend at the DZ and then complain about their wuffo partners and friends who can't understand the need to jump and the need to socialize with like minded friends.

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your third post, and the only one I can find on here (I guess the other two were deleted?), I would guess you haven't spent a terrible amount of time understanding what's going on.

Let me make a few things a bit clearer:

a. This is really my fist (now second post). I have no idea what the other two are about? I have been lurking on the list for some time, but I waited to at least experience my first jump before I joined.

b. I take your point about being positive and supportive. I agree and generally I am. One side of the story does not constitute a true picture and just because we participate in the same sport we don't really need to agree or sympathise all the time.

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... came up with a solution instead of threatening (to me, at least) to tell the family this post exists?...

c. Threatening ?? No I would not be interested in threatening anybody. I simply printout that this is a public forum. I would be very upset to discover via a second source that my VERY private life is discussed on the WWW without my involvement or permission.

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...I am glad you and your significant other have managed something which some people can't, and for that, a hearty congratulations to you both! How about sharing...

My problem is a distance from being solved. My better half (and I mean this) is a sensible lady who is genuinely concerned for me and my well being. When she did find out that I had my first jump, she was very emotional and at the time used language that I never heard her use before; such was the intensity of her feelings toward this sport. I didn't do very much except that I agreed with her, gently pointed out where she was wrong and simply hugged her at every opportunity and kept asking for a bit of space and tolerance. As she is a friend as well as my wife she silently agreed to put up with me and skydiving. She will NEVER agree with me, she will always HATE the sport and she will NEVER go to the DZ, but SHE WILL ALWAYS support me. On my part I always think about her when I am at the DZ because I know that she is unhappy and hoping that I am safe. I guess that when I signed up, we agreed that death will be what parts us.

There it is. My apologies if I offended anyone.

Slow

“True identity concealed to protect the guilty”

[Luna 0]

I've read all the replies so far, and there's some good points made. I just wanted to add one thing. A marriage is all about compromise. Neither of you will be 100% happy with everything, and so you just learn to give and take. If you are committed, it's not so hard. From what you are saying, I'm not seeing a willingness to compromise on the skydiving issue. I think counseling will be good, and one thing that you really need to get clear on while you are there is exactly what upsets her about the skydiving. Is it the danger aspect? Is it the frequency? Is it because she no longer feels a connection to you because she cannot share this thing that now is your whole life? Find out what it is, and then find a way to either address it (for example, if it's the danger, you can explain that you never take extra risks, and explain all the safety devices you use, etc.), or you can find a way to compromise (for example, if it's a loss of connection, agree to find something else that you can both enjoy together, and most important, agree to give up some of your dedicated skydiving time to do it with her). Frankly, from what I'm reading, she is probably feeling like skydiving is more important to you than she is. Hey, if it's true, get out! Don't keep her in that kind of a relationship. That's like having an affair with another woman and refusing to give it up, but not wanting a divorce either. But, if it's not true, you need to find a way to make her feel that you love her more. Good luck to you!

I'm walking a marathon to raise money for the Leukemia & Lymphoma Society. Click Here for more information!

[Michele 1]

Morning, Slowpoke.

Thanks for the considered response - I appreciate your taking my post well and understanding where I am coming from. Not being in either Len's or your shoes, I can only offer an ear and a shoulder; I can only offer support and friendship.

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you should also read the two posts and consider this from the side of people who can not defend or put their side of the story across

I have, and I understand (not agree with, but understand) your commentary. In one perspective, yes, it could be considered unfair that Len posted what he did. But it can also be said that he came to friends, and came to a place for some support, and needs that right now. When you really consider it, how does anyone really know anyone here ever tells the truth or the whole story? When it's considered from that position, of course you will only be getting someone's perspective and as we all know, 6 blind men will describe the same elephant 6 different ways. After a while, there are certain people you learn to take with a grain of salt, you know? Len posted his feelings; and those are real, true for him, and important to him. He also asked for support, which I will always bring to the table...

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then complain about their wuffo partners and friends who can't understand the need to jump and the need to socialize with like minded friends.

Interesting point, and agreed with somewhat. But why shouldn't one prefer to socialize with likeminded folk? I too get bored quickly with people who always complain about this or that, but then, hey, I do the same...people who bowl, for example, talk to others who bowl. People who golf spend a great deal of time with those who golf. Fishing, hiking, camping, work, etc...people will a) always complain about not being understood, b) will always prefer those who enjoy the same things, and c) can have conflict with others who don't understand. So I am not sure that this is a sport specific issue, and if it is an issue for you, then I suggest you don't indulge in it. Did that make sense? (It's still very early for me

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I have no idea what the other two are about? I have been lurking on the list for some time, but I waited to at least experience my first jump before I joined

When I check your profile (because I had seen you on-line lurking but not posting), it shows a total of 4 posts made. What I saw was:

Last Logon:Jul 12, 2003, 4:17 Posts: 4 (0.1 per day)
Real Name:No name entered.

Your search for slowpoke returned 2 results
Subject Username Forum Post time
Re: [Michele] Marriage coming close to hitting Critical Mass-- slowpoke General: Talk Back Jul 12, 2003, 12:49 AM
Re: [Dumpster] Marriage coming close to hitting Critical Mass-- slowpoke General: Talk Back Jul 11, 2003, 7:27 PM

So it shows there were 2 additional posts made, but unaccessible for some reason. Perhaps I was too quick in thinking they had been deleted - if not, my apologies. But that is what I was working from.

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just because we participate in the same sport we don't really need to agree or sympathise all the time.

We don't. But there is often a way to disagree with someone in this kind of post which doesn't "provoke" at a time where provocation may not be called for. By the same token, when one puts something out, one must expect that there will be slams and tweeks...because we are really diverse, this community. We come from all areas of life, all parts of the world, all thoughts, opinions, politics, religions, etc...and disagreements are bound to occur - even between close friends. But I still assert that there is a way to do it which will not exacerbate a situation, and still disagree - at least in this kind of post. (Political threads notwithstanding, however. ).

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I would be very upset to discover via a second source that my VERY private life is discussed on the WWW without my involvement or permission.

Then I would suggest you don't. If it occurs, and you find out, then take it up with the person who did discuss your life (and likely their life, as well). But to suggest that someone could find all the info needed to bring the rest of the parties into the discussion is, in my opinion, provoking, and while I may have taken it incorrectly, to me at least a bit of a threat. Thus my comment to you.

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When she did find out that I had my first jump, she was very emotional and at the time used language that I never heard her use before; such was the intensity of her feelings toward this sport

Thanks for sharing this part of your conversation about your agreement with your wife about your sport. I am not sure why she had to "find out" after you'd had your first jump, however, but such is not my business. You and she found a way to "agree to disagree", and make the beginning of your adventures in the sport work. I most wholeheartedly hope that agreement continues.

However, if it doesn't, and you find yourself in a position similar to Len's (knocking wood it doesn't happen), then I would hope you have developed enough solid friendships here (or elsewhere) to come to should you find yourself needing advice and support at a time when you feel most lonely and vulnerable.

Divorce in this sport is not unusual. As other people have pointed out, it is rarely the sport which causes the rift...it is the control, the fear, the something which steps in-between communication and expression of self in a partnership which can burden it beyond repair. Len is taking the steps of counselling to see if the rift can be repaired, and for that, there is ONLY significant support and listening from my side.

And that's my choice. How you want to participate in things is yours.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~