potentially dangerous practice?

[frazeebd 0]

I was at the drop zone this weekend working on jumps 18-20 (so almost up to my A license now) and came across something on conversation that I am curious about.
One of the other guys, a recent A licensee with a total of about 30-35 jumps has decided that he should advise us newer guys... He asked what I was flying and I told him (a Navigator 240 currently), and his comment was:
"Ohh.. its time to downsize! Just go to like a 220 or 210 and when you get under canopy, just undo you're chest strap and it lets the parachute open up wider and controls easier!"
Now... I'm nowhere near naive enough to take any of this advice, so no need to post replies like 'don't do it!!"
My real question is about opening the chest strap under canopy... this sounds to me like a potentially dangerous practice... is it commonplace? I know that you do it in preparation for a water landing so you can escape you're harness, but to be doing it for control purposes?

[kkeenan 14]

It is a somewhat common practice to loosen the chest strap, i.e. let it out to the stop at the end, not to release it completely. On some rigs, this does allow a bit more spread of the lines.

I think that the effect on a canopy such as your is probably negligible. Your friend is only passing on the things he sees the "big guys" doing.

Yes, it is possible to actually fall out of your harness if you remove the chest strap and don't know what you're doing, so I would advise against it.

Kevin K.

_____________________________________
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?

[dragon2 2]

Nobody I knows intentionally totally undoes his cheststrap under canopy. Loosening it up however is a way to make the canopy fly better, along with collapsing and stowing the slider behind your head. These are things you'll learn to do later on in your jumping career, as all these things take up a bit of time esp at first and most student type canopies do not allow collapsing/stowing the slider anyway.

Are you sure loosening the cheststrap is not what he meant?

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[frazeebd 0]

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Are you sure loosening the cheststrap is not what he meant?

Well, he claims that the rig he is jumping is a bit small for him (and he is a large guy), so that his chest strap is barely fastened at all anyways...not much slack... so he opens it, although loosening it was what he was talking about.

[billvon 2,991]

>just undo you're chest strap and it lets the parachute open up wider and controls easier!"

Dangerous advice. Should you need to use your reserve, having the chest strap disconnected will make it harder to find the handles and may result in you falling out of the harness on opening. And unless you're collapsing your slider, pulling it over your links and stowing it, taking off your chest strap won't do anything anyway.

> is it commonplace?

No. Loosening it is commonplace, but taking it off is rare (because it's sorta foolish.)

[JohnRich 4]

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...taking it off is rare (because it's sorta foolish.)

Unless you're participating in a POPS hit-and-rock competition, where you have to get out of your rig as fast as possible on the ground. Then, removal of the chest strap in the air is essential. However, this practice should only be done by foolish old men who act like little children on a playground.

[airtwardo 7]

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...taking it off is rare (because it's sorta foolish.)

Unless you're participating in a POPS hit-and-rock competition, where you have to get out of your rig as fast as possible on the ground. Then, removal of the chest strap in the air is essential. However, this practice should only be done by foolish old men who act like little children on a playground.

Who you callin' OLD!?

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[labrys 0]

The only time it's recommended that you disconnect your chest strap is in preparation for landing in water.

Owned by Remi #?

[jdfreefly 1]

I sometimes think the most dangerous thing a person with 20 jumps can find on a dropzone is a person with 30 jumps.

Next time he, or another low jump wonder, wants to give advice, drag him in front of an instructor and ask him to give the advice a second time.

If you can't tell a jumper something in front of the 5 best skydivers on a DZ, you shouldn't say it.

Methane Freefly - got stink?

[jheadley 0]

That's a great saying! So true.

[slotperfect 7]

As previously stated by many others who replied to this thread, loosening is common - disconnecting is not. I loosen my chest strao on every rig I jump, both military and civilian.

Arrive Safely

John

[azureriders 0]

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I sometimes think the most dangerous thing a person with 20 jumps can find on a dropzone is a person with 30 jumps.

Next time he, or another low jump wonder, wants to give advice, drag him in front of an instructor and ask him to give the advice a second time.

If you can't tell a jumper something in front of the 5 best skydivers on a DZ, you shouldn't say it.

Sorry, but that whole post was worth repeating, so there you go

[bob.dino 1]

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...when you get under canopy, just undo you're chest strap and it lets the parachute open up wider and controls easier!"

Well it might if you had a collapsible slider pulled behind your head... without that, it ain't doing a bloody thing for the flight characteristics of your canopy, as the slider will prevent the parachute from spreading out.

[popsjumper 2]

Your question has been answered.

Let me ask that you help yourself, and help the next guy that he offers advice to, by letting your instructors know that he is telling students that kind of "advice".

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[winsor 236]

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...when you get under canopy, just undo you're chest strap and it lets the parachute open up wider and controls easier!"

Well it might if you had a collapsible slider pulled behind your head... without that, it ain't doing a bloody thing for the flight characteristics of your canopy, as the slider will prevent the parachute from spreading out.

The only time I might loosen my chest strap is if I am shooting accuracy and using a split slider.

When I am using a collapsible slider pulled down the risers, I am usually under a canopy where I really do not need to milk the last vestige of performance out of it, since it has so much performance to begin with. YMMV.


Blue skies,

Winsor

[UDSkyJunkie 0]

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just undo you're chest strap and it lets the parachute open up wider and controls easier!

Nice... I'm glad you didn't buy into this!

As said, loosening will allow it to open wider, which slightly increases lift due to the flatter canopy. Also as said, unless you pull the slider past the toggles, which can't be done on a lot of rental rigs anyway, there will be no effect. Plus, the effect is less on a 220 Nav or similar vs. say, an 84 Velo. On top of that, I'd put $100 on anyone with 30 jumps even being able to detect that small difference in performance in the first place.

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If you can't tell a jumper something in front of the 5 best skydivers on a DZ, you shouldn't say it.

This is truly genious advice! It's up there with my current downsizing advice:

"You'll be ready to downsize when people stop giving you shit about your landings."

"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

[hackish 8]

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As said, loosening will allow it to open wider, which slightly increases lift due to the flatter canopy. Also as said, unless you pull the slider past the toggles, which can't be done on a lot of rental rigs anyway, there will be no effect. Plus, the effect is less on a 220 Nav or similar vs. say, an 84 Velo. On top of that, I'd put $100 on anyone with 30 jumps even being able to detect that small difference in performance in the first place.

I've been loosening the chest strap for a while now. The only thing I've found flying a sabre 210 is that I can get a very slight hip turn (I mean barely a 20-30 degree turn in 5 seconds of flight) with it loose but forget it if tight plus it's more comfortable. I tried datalogging the descent rates in full flight with the chest tight and not but couldn't record any difference.

-Michael

[rygon 0]

ive only done 11 jumps so pls dont listen to me for advice..i'll just give me my own experience

1st of all im 5'8 and weigh 11st..my 1st 8 jumps have been on a nav 280 and only downsized because a) astudent (ie AFF lvl1-7) needed the rig and b) i have done 6 stand up landings

with 3 jumps on the nav240 (at hibalstow btw) ive landed all 3 standing up..yet i know that i havent learnt as much as i can from that canopy..personally i feel comforable with it and reckon i could land something smaller if i wanted to but i dont...I want another say 10 jumps on this + a canopy couse to learn how to handle it properly before jumping anything smaller

The way i see it i'd rather be looked at as someone slow/pussy etc (which isnt going to happen at my dz) the be scared shitless riding a canopy im not experienced at playing with (fuck it could kill me...why bother)
also at the mo im a scaredycat with adjusting anything...i have my chest strap loose enought to fit say 2 hand in when standing p straight and my leg straps not so tight that its cuttin off blood. when im under canopy i like my leg straps half way between my dick and my knees...i feel comfortable with that...but sometimes i cant do that if ive tighten them to much ...so being uncomfortable isnt the end of the world...then again if you kill youself doing something someone else said will be

personally id rather take small steps than bigguns

and aslo your post has helped me quite a bit and im glad it hasnt changed into the normal..."what the fuck are you on about youve obly had xx jumps" Its great to see a (to me) good question answered properly

[Jon26 0]

IMHO, noone can tell you it's time to downsize except yor instructor and even then, you don't have to. I've noticed there are a lot of v. experienced skydivers who jump large canopies. It seems like there's no real necessity (sp?) to downsize at all unless you are getting into swooping or just want to get a bit more ground speed for fun.
I've done a bit of downsizing lately, mainly because i bought my own rig with a 150 main which i figured would last me a long time but is too small for me at the moment.
I don't really buy into the downsize as quickly and as much as possible thing (yet) and am hoping to stick with the 150 for a long time.

Anyway, i'm ranting, i just wanted to add that i don't think people should feel pressured to downsize at all.

[marinho 0]

Hi Brian,
Loosing up the chest strap is a good thing to do to improve the canopy performance.
You don't need that at this time. Once under your canopy, check for traffic and your spot.
Learn to fly your canopy in a safe way for yourself and others. Learn about flight patterns, turbulence and any thing that can improve safety for you and your friends.
Be safe and blue skies,

Gus Marinho

[UDSkyJunkie 0]

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I've noticed there are a lot of v. experienced skydivers who jump large canopies. It seems like there's no real necessity (sp?) to downsize at all unless you are getting into swooping or just want to get a bit more ground speed for fun.

Yep, that's prettymuch true. with the performance of ZP canopies today, most people would want to downsize at least to the 1.0 - 1.2 W/L range, just to get a little more penetration on windier days but beyond that there's no reason unless you want to swoop... and even then you don't HAVE to downsize... I used to get 100+ feet out of my Sabre1 135 @ 1.2 regularly. Wouldn't win any competitions, but it was still a lot of fun.

And it's true about the very experienced jumpers too... look around, and you'll find a lot of people with many thousands of jumps jumping 150 stiletto's or similar, and most of them are perfectly happy with it. My dad has been jumping one for like 12 years, has over 2000 jumps on it, and figures he'll keep jumping it until it disintegrates and then buy another Stiletto 150. some people think it's silly, but then again the last time he didn't stand up a landing was about 5 years ago and the entire next plane load turned around and took off their gear... they figured if it was too windy and turbulent for him, they didn't want to be up there.

I think the "pressure" to downsize is like the "pressure" to start smoking in high school. I never felt pressured to smoke, and I never felt pressured to downsize. Others had a different experience, but I kind of think it's all dependant on who they hang out with and how they interperet and react to others.

"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."