skydivewings 0 #1 January 10, 2012 PD Optimum or Paratec Speed 2000, which Pack Small!???Someone can tell me ??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 279 #2 January 10, 2012 I think there was a thread about that sort of thing recently, where some actual numbers from the user manuals (available online) were quoted. Those numbers are not perfect of course, so rigger opinions may differ. Forgive me for being cranky, but why do people obsess so much about a few cubic centimetres difference on their back.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,362 #3 January 10, 2012 Hi Peter, Quote why do people obsess so much about a few cubic centimetres difference on their back.... Most skydivers are in their 20's. You are 22 yrs old, single, in a bar looking at two women. One is a 37B & the other is a 37C; which one will you go for? However, you could not be more correct. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #4 January 10, 2012 Jerry, That's on their front.Paul, Because they want to cram the 'biggest' reserve they can, that is really too small for them, in the smallest container they can. Never mind whether it will come out of there when they need it, let alone making their rigger mad. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #5 January 10, 2012 Quote I think there was a thread about that sort of thing recently, where some actual numbers from the user manuals (available online) were quoted. Those numbers are not perfect of course, so rigger opinions may differ. as by those numbers, the speed 2000 packs smaller.. but the optimum is ORANGE and fits my gear much better! (and i'm in my late 30's!) “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #6 January 13, 2012 QuotePD Optimum or Paratec Speed 2000, which Pack Small!???Someone can tell me ??? Is wearing a tiny rig that important to you? SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 279 #7 January 13, 2012 Attached is a graph I made to show the actual pack volumes vs. canopy size on one graph. According to manufacturers numbers, and assuming they both use the same 'modern' sizing method (as opposed to the older PIA method): The Speed 190 packs up as small as an Optimum 160, or a Speed 135 like an Optimum 113. The two canopies don't share any common canopy sizes, but one can interpolate with the graph. Up to about a 170, the Optimums are typically about 40 cubic inches larger, not changing much across sizes. The absolute difference starts to rise for larger sizes. The percentage difference is that the Optimum is very roughly about 15% bigger for the smaller sizes. Both designs are certified to 150 kts, but maximum weights vary. The Speeds are all certified to 254 lbs, while the Optimum is also 254 for the 113 to 143. Above that, the Optimum can take more weight than the Speed. Below that range, the Optimum is good to 220 lbs, in a size range the Speed doesn't offer, but that's offset by being able to buy a slightly larger Speed that supposedly packs up at least as small as the smallest Optimums. The other attachment compares canopy sizes, volumes, and maximum suggested & TSO'd weights, ordering the canopies by size for better comparison. It would still be interesting to know what riggers in the field find when comparing the canopies. (And it would be Europeans who have the most experience with both.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gzimmermann 0 #8 January 13, 2012 Interesting. I remember having read somewhere that the Optimum in fact behaves, scales like a bigger than advertised canopy size. Eg the 143 like a 154. I remember something about a PID standard to measure this? Could someone clarify please? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RIGGER 0 #9 January 14, 2012 Quote The Speeds are all certified to 254 lbs, The SPEED 2000 reserves from Paratec Germany were tested to 254 Lb. (115 kg) @ 150 Knt. BUT Paratec set a MSW limit per each size which is the LEGAL MSW by the Mfg. / Manual. PR/OP126 are certified to Max.Gross Weight of 254 Lb.(115 Kg.) @ 150 Knt. a SPEED 120 is certified to 72 Kg. (158 Lb.) @ 150 Knt. - Please see the attached links: SPEED 2000: http://www.paratec.de/en/products-parachutes/57/ PD OPTIMUM: http://www.performancedesigns.com/products.asp?product=op If a PD Optimum reserve needs to be patched from any reason at this time it is a Factory Repair only - PD does not sale the fabric out of factory. Few Points: *Both are fine reserves from good mfg. PD USA & Paratec Germany, both are approved under the FAA TSO C23D *All PD reserves came with Slinks. (SR-1) *Speed 2000 have metal links. *OP's are ORANGE. *Speed 2000's are WHITE. *PARATEC the Speed 2000 Mfg. does not allowed Senior Riggers to perform any repair on the Speed 2000, not even a minor Repair - all repairs will be made by the factory or Master Riggers only. *OP reserve have 40 repacks / 25 deployments limits before factory re-certification process & the fabric needs to be tested by clamps once a year by PD manual. *Fabrics are from a very specific supplier for each Mfg. for these canopies & it is not wide made like the standart 0-3 cfm (F-111) used for the PR's. Think Safe For You & Not Small For Fashion !!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RIGGER 0 #10 January 14, 2012 It is not the skydivers only, Mfg. also has a point to think why they mfg. tiny reserve canopies like 98 / 99 Sq.Ft. or so. There is no reason for such small "fabrics" in the market - you can find these packed on the "Big Boys" backs for "Good Looking / Looks Cool" reasons. Just think about line twists or choosing the best landing area with a small high loaded reserve above your head. Parachuting system should be choosed with logic based on the path the skydiver choose in the sport - the EP system should be a wise decision based on SAFETY not FASHION !!! Think Safe & Jump for a long time !!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
degeneration 5 #11 January 15, 2012 I think it is unlikely that Paratec and PD use the same volume measuring methods. I emailed paratec about what size of their reserves would be best for an Icon I3 (reserve pack volume range - 275-333 cu inch), as I was unsure to trust their measurements. By their measurements a 170 or 190 would be a decent fit. I know from other people's experiences that an Op. 143 fits ok in an I3 - 298 cu inch. Paratec replied stating that a Speed 135 would be a comfortable fit - 248 cu inch. Based on the 135's measurements, it should be way too lose if it is measured in the same way as PD's. So I personally think it is quite likely that it is not measured the same, and their VERY low pack volumes should be taken with a pinch of salt.Sky Switches - Affordable stills camera tongue switches and conversion adaptors, supporting various brands of camera (Canon, Sony, Nikon, Panasonic). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deyan 36 #12 January 15, 2012 Quote I know from other people's experiences that an Op. 143 fits ok in an I3 - 298 cu inch. Paratec replied stating that a Speed 135 would be a comfortable fit - 248 cu inch. Speed 150 fits OK in I3. Speed 135 will be soft. My experience with both reserves shows that they pack about the same. I still have the feeling that Speed packs a bit smaller than Optimum. Speed 120 ~ Optimum 113 Speed 135 ~ Optimum 126 Speed 150 ~ Optimum 143 Speed 170 ~ Optimum 160 I don't have an experience with their bigger sizes."My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
