riddler 0 #1 June 26, 2003 OK, so this one probably doesn't warrant posting in Incidents, but it's worth discussing. Last weekend, I was on a 4-way with a camera flier (a certain Canadian that we all know and love ) above us. One jumper was doing his 100th jump, and we were celebrating. We had an uneventful (read went-to-shit-from-the-start) skydive. After the usual track-off and open, I noticed a cutaway canopy. I identified the jumper under reserve, saw that he was headed for the target, and others were there to help him if necessary, so I opted to chase his main and freebag, rather than follow him down. When I got on the ground, the S&TA was just driving up to help collect the main and freebag. He noted that both brakes were still stowed and no lines were broken. After seeing the freebag and the color of the Reflex cap, I knew it belonged to the jumper that was doing his 100th. After talking to the jumper, I gathered this information. He pulled lower than anticipated (approx. 2,500 feet). At 1,500, he was still snivelling, and he elected to open his reserve without cutting away first. This resulted in a downplane, which he then cut away from. He landed, uninjured, but it obviously could have been worse. When I asked him why he chose to not cutaway first, he stated that he felt too low to cut away. The jumper has both a Cypres and a RSL. Other jumpers in the hanger saw the two canopies out at low altitude and assumed that it was a Cypres fire. Everything below this line is my opinion only. First off, I only have 175 jumps, so I never intentionally pull below 3,000 - I prefer 3,500. I intentionally pack for 700 to 1,000-foot openings. Pulling at 2,500 would get my heart going a bit and I might make some bad choices too. On a long snivel, I'm going to want to grab my toggles and pump them to try to inflate the canopy. Maybe the jumper didn't feel he had enough time to do this. In this situation, I would cutaway before opening my reserve. Going for silver first with a main out is risking a main-reserve entanglement. At 1,500 feet, under a streaming main, there is plenty of time to execute emergency procedures. An RSL will certainly help deploy quicker. At Mile-Hi (field elev 5050 feet), we tell jumpers they can chop as low as 1,000 feet (although hard-deck is higher for students). I've heard people state at sea-level, you can cutaway lower, but the thinner air up here takes longer to inflate the reserve, so we add a few hundred feet for safety. We all practice our emergency procedures religiously (I hope ). But do you have what it takes to cut away at 1,000 feet? Next time you're under canopy, when you get to 1,000 feet, look down, touch your handles, and say "What If?" I can tell you it's a pretty scary proposition. If it bothers you like it does me, I suggest you practice that several times until you get used to the idea. When that ground it coming up fast, it will be easy to make the wrong choice. In the end, the skydiver did what he felt he had to do and he survived, so it's hard for me to be too critical. But there are good emergency procedures and bad ones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #2 June 26, 2003 A Skyhook would help with the quickness of a reserve opening in situations like that.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #3 June 26, 2003 QuoteA Skyhook would help with the quickness of a reserve opening in situations like that. Which is why I think my next container will be a Vector Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #4 June 26, 2003 Yeah, I really want a Skyhook, but can't afford a new container...oh-well (for now).--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #5 June 26, 2003 Thank you for taking the time to post this. I certainly got a lot out of it. Blue skies buddy, Chris _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #6 June 26, 2003 Good post. Personally, I wouldn't do this, though: QuoteOn a long snivel, I'm going to want to grab my toggles and pump them to try to inflate the canopy. My personal mantra is don't f around with a high speed mal...chop it and move on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #7 June 26, 2003 QuoteMy personal mantra is don't f around with a high speed mal...chop it and move on. I like that attitude as well. I'll think about changing my priorities.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #8 June 26, 2003 QuoteQuote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On a long snivel, I'm going to want to grab my toggles and pump them to try to inflate the canopy. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My personal mantra is don't f around with a high speed mal...chop it and move on. i agree whith you besides i would say this is a low speed mal.I know it goes faster than if it were more out that a high slider,however i define a high speed mal as a mal were there comes nothing,you cant pull or you have a horseshoe. I think the guy should have cutted first through..but he lived so he did somthing rigth Stay safe Stefan Faber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #9 June 26, 2003 QuoteOn a long snivel, I'm going to want to grab my toggles and pump them to try to inflate the canopy. I'm not going to bother with my toggles but instead be pumping my rear risers. If this fails, then it's time to cutaway and move on to plan B. QuoteI think the guy should have cutted first through..but he lived so he did somthing rigth Yes several people talked to the jumper in question afterwards and I believe he realizes his mistake. Ironically myself and the jumper in question were talking about our lack of a reserve ride just before this jump (I've had my share of shit in this sport, but to date I still haven't experienced a reserve ride and don't know how I'll react). Well we know that this jumper did one big thing wrong (not cutting away after pulling his main pilot chute before he went for his reserve), But at least he saved his life after his two canopies developed into a downplane. All of a sudden AggieDave and Riddler have me thinking about the merits of a skyhook. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #10 June 26, 2003 I think a lot of people have a phobia about cutting away. You're committing yourself at that point, so it makes people want to cheat, wait a little longer, try deploying the reserve first, etc. That's not good thinking. Cutting away is what we do if things go wrong. Sure it's scary, but it works. While it's good that people are pulling higher (really, I'm all for it), it's creating an unsafe paranoia about doing anything below 3 grand. If you need to cutaway, you're almost always going to be below 3 grand. Hesitating and losing altitude by the precious second isn't helping you, if anything it's giving you false hope. I was dumb enough to try and clear a problem all the way down to 1200 ft once before I gave up and did what I should've done higher. That was a long time ago, so there was no AAD or RSL, with a round reserve at a DZ with about a 1400 ft. ground elevation. The cutaway, once I got off my ass and did it, went by the book, I was open very quickly. Those who hesitate shall inherit the earth - and that hurts. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymut 0 #11 June 26, 2003 Quote I'm not going to bother with my toggles but instead be pumping my rear risers. If this fails, then it's time to cutaway and move on to plan B. I about have my hands trained to go straight to my rear risers as soon as I feel the tug (and begin to see) my main inflate. If it seems as though it is sniveling too long, a few quick tugs. Still sniveling, then like yourself, time for operation main-chop. Matt A well-informed person is somebody who has the same views and opinions as yours. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #12 June 27, 2003 Quotego straight to my rear risers as soon as I feel the tug I used to do this too, but hooknswoop "enlightened" me. Doing this results in more off-heading openings (i.e. you may be inadvertently pulling a tiny bit harder on one side). If you don't grab the risers, you can focus on the horizon and hip-steer through the snivel if necessary to maintain on-heading opening. This is more significant when doing big-ways - you want to keep going in the direction you tracked away because there are more bodies in the sky. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites