QuickDraw 0 #51 June 25, 2003 QuoteFaber's Danish, give him a break ... how's your Danish? Yeah...Fabers one of the good guys. Aintcha Faber ? -- Hope you don't die. -- I'm fucking winning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SadSue 0 #52 June 25, 2003 Lmao Wolf... don't even go there dude!!!!!!!! I'm chilling in here for a bit, I'm tired of getting my ass beat Hope you don't get Banned! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lfhower 0 #53 June 25, 2003 Hell yes, you are a skydiver. You voluntarily jumped even if was tandem. You are one of us forever!!!! Never mind all the other stuff in this thread. I laid out of skydiving for 30+ years but I was still a skydiver, just not current........my .02 Always remember, when you get where you're going, there you are! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallingAngel 0 #54 June 25, 2003 I think I would define a skydiver as someone who enjoys doing it on a regular basis...which could be every weekend, every day, once a year...but skydiving definately has to be something that they enjoy doing. I feel it should be something they do more than once or semi-frequently...Like I've gone skiing a handfull of times but definately don't consider myself a skier because its not something I'm passionate about...Skydiving on the other hand... I also think ratings help define a skydiver too...because that shows that skydiving is something you enjoy. Although this is not a hard and fast rule, so lack or possession of ratings does not alone a skydiver make. All in all, I think its hard to define a skydiver, but basically, actually jumping (in my mind solo unless a disability prevents that) and passion for it definately has to come into play in my mind. Other than that, I think it has to be decided on a case by case basis. [I consider myself a skydiver becasue its something that's constantly on my mind, I do it as often as school, money and wuffo friends allow Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tbrown 26 #55 June 25, 2003 I've got a distant in-law relative (wife's cousin's cousin) who's quadraplegic, with very limited use of his hands. He broke his neck cliff diving in Hawaii right after graduting from high school. In 1981 he made a static line jump and would've actually gone into the record books as the first quad to jump, but the jump wasn't exactly "legal". That and it also turned out he broke a leg. I absolutely consider him to be a skydiver heart and soul, the closest thing I could think of to capare with would be static lining with my hans and feet shackled - scary. He's older, married and has three kids now, as well as a successful practice as a family counselor. And he loves and holds onto his one gutsy SKYDIVE. I think I might talk to him about possibly making a tandem one of these days, it's no longer unusual for a quad to make a tandem jump. People with disabilites who make even one jump, by whatever means they're able to have my deepest respect, because they're trying and won't let shit get in their way. But ordinary able bodied citizens are tourists. It's great that they can get that one jump they always wanted to make, and hopefully some of them will stick around and become real skideevers. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,446 #56 June 25, 2003 Quote1981 he made a static line jump and would've actually gone into the record books as the first quad to jump, but the jump wasn't exactly "legal". Damn. I'm impressed. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,446 #57 June 25, 2003 QuoteGirlfreinds or SO's (female only) of skydivers who have the patience to hang around the dropzone for hours have a special place in the community I'm curious -- does this mean that a guy who hangs around the DZ while his SO jumps (whether that SO is female or male) is less special? Why, exactly? Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Biscuit 0 #58 June 25, 2003 Elitist bunghole. ****************************************** The last mosquito that bit me had to book into the Betty Ford Clinic. -Patsy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zenister 0 #59 June 25, 2003 find your free bag yet?? i think its that blue thing in the lake...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riddler 0 #60 June 25, 2003 I already knew I wanted to be a skydiver before my first tandem, which was a sunset load. After the tandem, my tandem instructor offered me a beer (anyone remember how dry their throat was after their first jump?), and he said "Hang out with us tonight, we'll drink beer. You're a skydiver now, part of the family." I don't know if most skydivers would agree, but it made me feel pretty good at the time.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #61 June 25, 2003 My opinion....Oh shit here it goes. A skydiver is a person who jumps,pulls,deals with mals...ect. If all you do is Tandems...you are not a skydiver. You have skydived. For that matter if I quit jumping, I will not call myself a skydiver anymore. It truth I don't call myself a skydiver...I tell people I skydive...It's something I *do* not who I am. And I live on a DZ in FL. I still don't call myself a skydiver."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bvsdjumper 0 #62 June 25, 2003 The underlying question here is "What is a skydiver?" According to the USPA web site (section on 2003 SIM FAA Part 105): http://www.uspa.org/publications/SIM/SIMtext/FARPart105.htm#1053 QuoteParachute jump means a parachute operation that involves the descent of one or more persons to the surface from an aircraft in flight when an aircraft (I think they meant parachute) is used or intended to be used during all or part of that descent. Parachute operation means the performance of all activity for the purpose of, or in support of, a parachute jump or a parachute drop. This parachute operation can involve, but is not limited to, the following persons: parachutist, parachutist in command and passenger in tandem parachute operations, drop zone or owner or operator, jump master, certificated parachute rigger, or pilot. Parachutist means a person who intends to exit an aircraft while in flight using a single-harness, dual parachute system to descend to the surface. Parachutist in command means the person responsible for the operation and safety of a tandem parachute operation. Passenger parachutist means a person who boards an aircraft, acting as other than the parachutist in command of a tandem parachute operation, with the intent of exiting [sic] the aircraft while in flight using the forward harness of a dual harness tandem parachute system to descend to the surface. I didn't find a definition for skydiver. By the above, I think being a skydiver includes being a parachutist, parachutist in command, or passenger parachutist at some point in time. I strongly disagree that freefall or a solo (non-tandem) jump is required to be considered a skydiver. But when is one qualified to be considered a "skydiver"? Maybe you're only a real skydiver between the moment you leave the aircraft and the moment you land. Otherwise, you're just another person. But that's no good because we still want to be called skydivers even though we aren't currently performing the act of skydiving. Maybe you're only a real skydiver once you get a license. There are at least two problems with that. One is: What about students? Surely while they're commiting the act of skydiving (between the moments of exiting and landing) they are skydivers. But, once they reach the ground their status goes back to non-skydiver. That seems kind of odd. Two is: What about me and people like me? I have 230 jumps but never bothered with a license. Think of me what you will, but I am a skydiver. I don't think being a skydiver has anything to do with licenses or ratings. It may have to do with how a person feels about themself or how other people feel about them. As for me personally, I went through a static-line course. I personally felt like a "skydiver" when I jumped without rope or radio. I was doing it on my own (almost). But that's just how I felt about myself personally. Maybe I turned into a skydiver on my first jump because I fell in love with it immediately. I planned on being a one tandem wonder, but when we landed I had a very clear purpose to learn how to skydive on my own. As for your specific case, I'd say technically they are a skydiver. But, I think there are different kinds of skydivers: The casual (or occasional) skydiver. The world-class skydiver. The student skydiver. etc... It may be more appropriate for the person you're talking about to call themselves a casual (or occasional) skydiver. I think they are misrepresenting themselves a bit because when the typical whuffo hears that they are a "skydiver" the whuffo probably thinks skygod. Saying casual (or occasional) skydiver may put the whuffo into perspective. But in the end, as others have said. Who cares? It ain't no big deal. ArtSky-div'ing (ski'div'ing) n. A modern sport that involves parties, bragging, sexual excesses, the imbibing of large quantities of beer, and, on rare occasions, parachuting from aircraft. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites katiebear21 0 #63 June 25, 2003 Nobody's really addressed the question yet. Ever seen the movie, Sister Act, when Whoopi Goldberg is counseling the young girl singing? She said if you wake up and all you can think about is singing, then, girl, you're a singer! Well, I say, if you wake up, and all you can think about is skydiving, then, you're a skydiver! Katie Get your PMS glass necklace here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites celljumper 0 #64 June 25, 2003 Vallerina you just hit the nail on the head. People should not be getting upset by this. And people should not really give a @#$% what anybody else calls themself, as long as they are not claiming expert status and telling others what to do. and that's MY .02. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Faber 0 #65 June 25, 2003 Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Faber's Danish, give him a break ... how's your Danish? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yeah...Fabers one of the good guys. Aintcha Faber ? Ja jeg er dansker,en stolt en = yes im danish,and im proud of it I dont know if im good or bad, im me But i try to be nice i promice... Stay safe Stefan Faber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites happythoughts 0 #66 June 25, 2003 QuoteWell, I say, if you wake up, and all you can think about is skydiving, then, you're a skydiver! If you wake up and you're in freefall, then you're a narcoleptic. I have seen this question posed numerous times. The problem always seems to hinge on this: To say you are a ____ of any description usually means that you have some continued involvement with whatever topic that you are talking about. That is why people want to differentiate between a one-jump tandem student and a person with 100 current jumps. Saying that you are a tennis player usually means that you have played more than once and are active in the sport. What irritates people involved in any sport is when "posers" attempt to present themselves as experts. I have seen this in skateboarding, ex-military, and computer geeks. It happens everywhere. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites spedbus 0 #67 June 25, 2003 yeesh. as much as i love debating the logic behind religion, i get bored quickly with people taking that stance. anyway. you kids are right. i mean i'm not gonna start telling people i'm this skydiver guy under the pretence that they don't have any idea how experienced i am. 8 jumps does not a professional make. but i think most labels, especially "skydiver" are only useful for buttressing a person's self esteem. the way i track it is to me and for me only the definition is licensed. hence, i don't personally consider myself a skydiver. yet.You'll lose speed, but keep altitude. It will look like you have a choice, speed or height, but either way you're still gonna nose-dive into the ground. -Chuck Palahniuk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Mindcake 0 #68 June 25, 2003 I disagree spedbus....if you enjoy skydiving and you have the desire to go again and again then you are a skydiver, maybe not a expierenced one but a skydiver none the less. Don´t belive the hype Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mac266 0 #69 June 25, 2003 well i am in late on this but my 0.2 euros worth..... A skydiver is someone who is able to jump from an aircraft without any instructor guiding them. the same way that being PCA'd from a bridge from your mate does not make you a BASE jumper the same way that taking over the controls of your friends plane for 10 mins makes you a pilot the same way that riding on the back of a motorcycle makes you a biker get my drift? I appreciate that you may not have a choice - but why the big thing about whether you are a skydiver or not - in this world there are good and bad people - thats all that counts in the end!!!!! be safe always Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Muenkel 0 #70 June 25, 2003 I agree with you Happythoughts. When ppl ask me right now, my answer is I am a student skydiver going thru my training. I will not answer any questions about skydiving that I am not qualified to answer. However, the "student skydiver" line does get some chicks attention, so I like using it, despite the fact that it is the truth. Chris _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bobsled92 0 #71 June 25, 2003 >Jumping off a plane as a tandem,makes you an >passenger... You aint a pilot just becours you are on the plane.. if so.. i would like to know were i could pick up my licens.. as most of my 550+fligths are from an cessna 182,so i should have hours enough I read an interview in Parachutist "PROFILE" and a lady with Hi-experience said she doesn't enjoy giving Tandems because it's just a person carring "luggage" and not jumping for themselves._______________________________ If I could be a Super Hero, I chose to be: "GRANT-A-CLAUS". and work 365 days a Year. http://www.hangout.no/speednews/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #55 June 25, 2003 I've got a distant in-law relative (wife's cousin's cousin) who's quadraplegic, with very limited use of his hands. He broke his neck cliff diving in Hawaii right after graduting from high school. In 1981 he made a static line jump and would've actually gone into the record books as the first quad to jump, but the jump wasn't exactly "legal". That and it also turned out he broke a leg. I absolutely consider him to be a skydiver heart and soul, the closest thing I could think of to capare with would be static lining with my hans and feet shackled - scary. He's older, married and has three kids now, as well as a successful practice as a family counselor. And he loves and holds onto his one gutsy SKYDIVE. I think I might talk to him about possibly making a tandem one of these days, it's no longer unusual for a quad to make a tandem jump. People with disabilites who make even one jump, by whatever means they're able to have my deepest respect, because they're trying and won't let shit get in their way. But ordinary able bodied citizens are tourists. It's great that they can get that one jump they always wanted to make, and hopefully some of them will stick around and become real skideevers. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,446 #56 June 25, 2003 Quote1981 he made a static line jump and would've actually gone into the record books as the first quad to jump, but the jump wasn't exactly "legal". Damn. I'm impressed. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,446 #57 June 25, 2003 QuoteGirlfreinds or SO's (female only) of skydivers who have the patience to hang around the dropzone for hours have a special place in the community I'm curious -- does this mean that a guy who hangs around the DZ while his SO jumps (whether that SO is female or male) is less special? Why, exactly? Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Biscuit 0 #58 June 25, 2003 Elitist bunghole. ****************************************** The last mosquito that bit me had to book into the Betty Ford Clinic. -Patsy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #59 June 25, 2003 find your free bag yet?? i think its that blue thing in the lake...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #60 June 25, 2003 I already knew I wanted to be a skydiver before my first tandem, which was a sunset load. After the tandem, my tandem instructor offered me a beer (anyone remember how dry their throat was after their first jump?), and he said "Hang out with us tonight, we'll drink beer. You're a skydiver now, part of the family." I don't know if most skydivers would agree, but it made me feel pretty good at the time.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #61 June 25, 2003 My opinion....Oh shit here it goes. A skydiver is a person who jumps,pulls,deals with mals...ect. If all you do is Tandems...you are not a skydiver. You have skydived. For that matter if I quit jumping, I will not call myself a skydiver anymore. It truth I don't call myself a skydiver...I tell people I skydive...It's something I *do* not who I am. And I live on a DZ in FL. I still don't call myself a skydiver."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bvsdjumper 0 #62 June 25, 2003 The underlying question here is "What is a skydiver?" According to the USPA web site (section on 2003 SIM FAA Part 105): http://www.uspa.org/publications/SIM/SIMtext/FARPart105.htm#1053 QuoteParachute jump means a parachute operation that involves the descent of one or more persons to the surface from an aircraft in flight when an aircraft (I think they meant parachute) is used or intended to be used during all or part of that descent. Parachute operation means the performance of all activity for the purpose of, or in support of, a parachute jump or a parachute drop. This parachute operation can involve, but is not limited to, the following persons: parachutist, parachutist in command and passenger in tandem parachute operations, drop zone or owner or operator, jump master, certificated parachute rigger, or pilot. Parachutist means a person who intends to exit an aircraft while in flight using a single-harness, dual parachute system to descend to the surface. Parachutist in command means the person responsible for the operation and safety of a tandem parachute operation. Passenger parachutist means a person who boards an aircraft, acting as other than the parachutist in command of a tandem parachute operation, with the intent of exiting [sic] the aircraft while in flight using the forward harness of a dual harness tandem parachute system to descend to the surface. I didn't find a definition for skydiver. By the above, I think being a skydiver includes being a parachutist, parachutist in command, or passenger parachutist at some point in time. I strongly disagree that freefall or a solo (non-tandem) jump is required to be considered a skydiver. But when is one qualified to be considered a "skydiver"? Maybe you're only a real skydiver between the moment you leave the aircraft and the moment you land. Otherwise, you're just another person. But that's no good because we still want to be called skydivers even though we aren't currently performing the act of skydiving. Maybe you're only a real skydiver once you get a license. There are at least two problems with that. One is: What about students? Surely while they're commiting the act of skydiving (between the moments of exiting and landing) they are skydivers. But, once they reach the ground their status goes back to non-skydiver. That seems kind of odd. Two is: What about me and people like me? I have 230 jumps but never bothered with a license. Think of me what you will, but I am a skydiver. I don't think being a skydiver has anything to do with licenses or ratings. It may have to do with how a person feels about themself or how other people feel about them. As for me personally, I went through a static-line course. I personally felt like a "skydiver" when I jumped without rope or radio. I was doing it on my own (almost). But that's just how I felt about myself personally. Maybe I turned into a skydiver on my first jump because I fell in love with it immediately. I planned on being a one tandem wonder, but when we landed I had a very clear purpose to learn how to skydive on my own. As for your specific case, I'd say technically they are a skydiver. But, I think there are different kinds of skydivers: The casual (or occasional) skydiver. The world-class skydiver. The student skydiver. etc... It may be more appropriate for the person you're talking about to call themselves a casual (or occasional) skydiver. I think they are misrepresenting themselves a bit because when the typical whuffo hears that they are a "skydiver" the whuffo probably thinks skygod. Saying casual (or occasional) skydiver may put the whuffo into perspective. But in the end, as others have said. Who cares? It ain't no big deal. ArtSky-div'ing (ski'div'ing) n. A modern sport that involves parties, bragging, sexual excesses, the imbibing of large quantities of beer, and, on rare occasions, parachuting from aircraft. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
katiebear21 0 #63 June 25, 2003 Nobody's really addressed the question yet. Ever seen the movie, Sister Act, when Whoopi Goldberg is counseling the young girl singing? She said if you wake up and all you can think about is singing, then, girl, you're a singer! Well, I say, if you wake up, and all you can think about is skydiving, then, you're a skydiver! Katie Get your PMS glass necklace here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
celljumper 0 #64 June 25, 2003 Vallerina you just hit the nail on the head. People should not be getting upset by this. And people should not really give a @#$% what anybody else calls themself, as long as they are not claiming expert status and telling others what to do. and that's MY .02. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #65 June 25, 2003 Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Faber's Danish, give him a break ... how's your Danish? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yeah...Fabers one of the good guys. Aintcha Faber ? Ja jeg er dansker,en stolt en = yes im danish,and im proud of it I dont know if im good or bad, im me But i try to be nice i promice... Stay safe Stefan Faber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #66 June 25, 2003 QuoteWell, I say, if you wake up, and all you can think about is skydiving, then, you're a skydiver! If you wake up and you're in freefall, then you're a narcoleptic. I have seen this question posed numerous times. The problem always seems to hinge on this: To say you are a ____ of any description usually means that you have some continued involvement with whatever topic that you are talking about. That is why people want to differentiate between a one-jump tandem student and a person with 100 current jumps. Saying that you are a tennis player usually means that you have played more than once and are active in the sport. What irritates people involved in any sport is when "posers" attempt to present themselves as experts. I have seen this in skateboarding, ex-military, and computer geeks. It happens everywhere. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spedbus 0 #67 June 25, 2003 yeesh. as much as i love debating the logic behind religion, i get bored quickly with people taking that stance. anyway. you kids are right. i mean i'm not gonna start telling people i'm this skydiver guy under the pretence that they don't have any idea how experienced i am. 8 jumps does not a professional make. but i think most labels, especially "skydiver" are only useful for buttressing a person's self esteem. the way i track it is to me and for me only the definition is licensed. hence, i don't personally consider myself a skydiver. yet.You'll lose speed, but keep altitude. It will look like you have a choice, speed or height, but either way you're still gonna nose-dive into the ground. -Chuck Palahniuk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mindcake 0 #68 June 25, 2003 I disagree spedbus....if you enjoy skydiving and you have the desire to go again and again then you are a skydiver, maybe not a expierenced one but a skydiver none the less. Don´t belive the hype Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mac266 0 #69 June 25, 2003 well i am in late on this but my 0.2 euros worth..... A skydiver is someone who is able to jump from an aircraft without any instructor guiding them. the same way that being PCA'd from a bridge from your mate does not make you a BASE jumper the same way that taking over the controls of your friends plane for 10 mins makes you a pilot the same way that riding on the back of a motorcycle makes you a biker get my drift? I appreciate that you may not have a choice - but why the big thing about whether you are a skydiver or not - in this world there are good and bad people - thats all that counts in the end!!!!! be safe always Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #70 June 25, 2003 I agree with you Happythoughts. When ppl ask me right now, my answer is I am a student skydiver going thru my training. I will not answer any questions about skydiving that I am not qualified to answer. However, the "student skydiver" line does get some chicks attention, so I like using it, despite the fact that it is the truth. Chris _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobsled92 0 #71 June 25, 2003 >Jumping off a plane as a tandem,makes you an >passenger... You aint a pilot just becours you are on the plane.. if so.. i would like to know were i could pick up my licens.. as most of my 550+fligths are from an cessna 182,so i should have hours enough I read an interview in Parachutist "PROFILE" and a lady with Hi-experience said she doesn't enjoy giving Tandems because it's just a person carring "luggage" and not jumping for themselves._______________________________ If I could be a Super Hero, I chose to be: "GRANT-A-CLAUS". and work 365 days a Year. http://www.hangout.no/speednews/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #72 June 25, 2003 QuoteI read an interview in Parachutist "PROFILE" and a lady with Hi-experience said she doesn't enjoy giving Tandems because it's just a person carring "luggage" and not jumping for themselves. Oh fuck her! Just because she was in Parachutist and has high numbers does not make her right. Sounds to me like she is a bit stuck up and a little too impressed with herself. Chris _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #73 June 25, 2003 not quite how you can be "wrong" about what you enjoy or not, she doent enjoy tandems because they are pretty much on an amusement ride (unless its a step to say AFP) what exactly is the tandem passenger doing for the TM? (other than paying his or her bills) what is the TM doing for the passenger? umm just EVERYTHING! tandem passengers are paying cargo. desire and ability are very important drive factors, but if you havent exited an aircraft with a parachute on YOUR back, so that you are the one person responsible for your fate.... well IMO your not a skydiver...yet, and that doesnt mean you cant be..____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #74 June 25, 2003 What does a tandem passenger due for a tandem master? How about give them a chance to teach? Give them a chance to turn someone on to the sport and perhaps change that person's life forever. Chris _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #75 June 25, 2003 all of which could also be done thru AFF and you meet most standards for 'skydiver' right away, since you did it all for yourself, with instructional assistance only if you brainlocked...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
