skydivejersey 0 #26 June 2, 2003 Bikes rock! I ride mine to work everyday. I only use a car if I got no other choice need to shift a sofa or something. Even then I'll wonder if theres a way I can strap it one with a few bungies! Traffic jams make me smile. Rolling passed a load of pissed of car drivers with their misserable not moving for an hour faces. Rember the primary rules of biking - you are invisible and everyone wants to kill you and you will be OK. But start with a 600! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerm 0 #27 June 2, 2003 Quote.what you won't learn is other drivers quickly... thats what will probalbly kill you. Drivers treat bikers, sport bikers especially, like shit.. they don't see you and they don't care... that's actually why i stopped riding.... i figure i'm much less likely to be killed by someone else's fuckup in the sky than on the road... and i can (for the most part) CHOOSE the assholes i'm jumping with... can't choose the assholes you're driving with. but it's all about acceptable levels of risk Landing without injury is not necessarily evidence that you didn't fuck up... it just means you got away with it this time Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivejersey 0 #28 June 2, 2003 QuoteWell, my first 'real' motorcycle was the Hayabusa's ancestor, the Katana 1100. Rode it for 11 years Dont mean to rain on your parrade but a modern Hayabusa is a totaly different animal from what was rolling 11 years ago. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #29 June 2, 2003 Quoteyou're calling a "katana" a "real" bike ??? The 1990 GSX1100F Katana? With 103HP and a top speed of 143? Yeah, it was real enough for me. I sold it to a skydiver and it sure as hell is real enough for him. Course, my K1200RS with heated grips, anti-lock brakes, electronic cruise control, rev-limiter, catalytic convertor (Can I get an "AMEN! BillVon?) and 130HP is "realer" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivejersey 0 #30 June 2, 2003 yeah suppose your only looking at 80% more power and 30% less weight! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KawiZX900 0 #31 June 2, 2003 chill homie... 2 fingers down @ the road for ya already.... shit.... (gave em to ya on one wheel) Accelerate hard to get them looking, then slam on the fronts and rollright beside the car, hanging the back wheel at eye level for a few seconds. Guaranteed reaction- Dave Sonsky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,517 #32 June 2, 2003 The advice to take the Motorcycle Safety Foundation class first is really really good. You get to practice making simple user mistakes on their motorcycles. Light and easy-to-pick-up ones. This is goodness. As far as a really fast sport bike (I ride a cruiser), well, you can make them go slow as well as fast. You just have to decide to. But just like you should make your first rig one you don't mind getting dirty, make your first bike one that you don't mind dropping. That way you can concentrate on the main reason not to drop your bike -- because you're on it. And yes, they're all out to get you. Get a really good air horn and don't be scared to use it. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivejersey 0 #33 June 2, 2003 And a seriously good lid, an armoured jacked and some decent boots! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wceviper 0 #34 June 2, 2003 First things first, a lot of you have the wrong perspective on what will kill you. The first bike I really rode was a Harley sportster 883cc, I put maybe 1000 miles on that before I got my license. Then I bought a Buell Lightning X1 at 1203cc. They are both dangerous. A lot of people look at the CC count on a bike thinking that is the death factor, but its not. And comparing a motorcycle to a Canopy isn’t really fair either. You can control your speed no matter what size CC engine you have, but parachutes you cannot control your speed with a throttle, only brakes :) My point here, its the rider that kills them self because they do not have respect for the power between their Knee's. Just like someone who jumps a smaller canopy when they are not ready for it, no respect for the dangers of the sport. I rode all types of bikes before I figured out what I wanted. I was into the sport bikes, so I bought a Buell. 1203cc, 90flbs of torque at 5500rpms, Top speed of 145. Plenty of power, And come on now, Who needs to go faster than 120 (Besides free flyers :) )?? Besides, doesn’t going fast in a straight line get real boring real quick? I think it does..... You can kill yourself on a bicycle going 10mph and hitting a curb. Don’t let the CC number make you think any different, just have respect for that number. Personally, I wouldn't get an brand new bike to learn on. Also, Check insurance prices in your Area, that will be a big factor in buying a bike. You would be looking at 2500+ a year for a new ride on what is considered a "Super Bike". I totally recommend a CC Rider course, I would compare that with first jump training, EVERYONE should take it. I learned a lot. Just my 2 cents :) Hope you get something out of it, and just like Skydiving, have respect for the bike, and ride like you are invisible. Basically, pretend that no one can see you and they could drift in your direction at anytime killing you. That will keep you more aware and it will keep you alive. My Motorcycle -JasonYou may push me around, but you cannot win! You may throw me down, but i'll rise again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chachi 0 #35 June 2, 2003 Here is my advice. I ride a Ninja 750 so I love bikes. I would recommend riding a dirt bike for a summer or so before stepping on a street bike. It will teach you to handle when tires go sideways and lots of different situations. Also if you think you should buy a 1300cc motorbike for your first machine your nuts. That is to much power for most people. Get a nice fast easier to handle 600 for your first bike. Buy something older because you might have a small wipe or drop your first year. Then buy something same size and newer, the years will have made the bike more powerful and lighter. Then you can get bigger if you want. These are just suggestions, but I do know people that went out got a licence and bought 12 and 1300cc's and they fit into 5 gallon drums after a couple weeks. You can kill yourself worse thean a velocity on these and if you don't respect them you will die. ~Chachi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #36 June 2, 2003 Quotechill homie... 2 fingers down @ the road for ya already.... shit.... (gave em to ya on one wheel) Dude, I'm chillin like a villian. I hear yah! "Pretty cool. For an old guys bike" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steel 0 #37 June 2, 2003 Fast bikes are great. But a bike that is so powerful that you (or anybody without years of experience AND developed talent in the art) is scared to touch the throttle just a little too much and doesn't make any sense. 5 or 6 hundreds are the best starters and are not in anyway limiting unless your well over 200 pounds. If you achieve the level most bikers achieve then you probably will never outgrow a 600. 900s are a little too powerful for a beginner but a 1300 hundred to start out on is just outright stupid. Don't get me wrong I am pretty sure if I would have started out on a 1300, I probably would have not been hurt. But I would have had a lot less fun on it. Most of my riding concentration would have gone to not giving it too much throttle and flipping over. Oh and its noticeable more expensive to buy and to insure.If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KawiZX900 0 #38 June 2, 2003 yeah, no brain buckets... who wants a brain if you can't drink with your own mouth... Accelerate hard to get them looking, then slam on the fronts and rollright beside the car, hanging the back wheel at eye level for a few seconds. Guaranteed reaction- Dave Sonsky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #39 June 2, 2003 There are two types of motorcyclists in this world: 1) Those who have crashed. 2) Those who have yet to crash. I fall into the crashed category (one nasty crash on a dirt bike where I hurt my knee and one low-siding my crotch rocket on a very tight mountain switch back road in British Columbia). My head struck the ground on my crotch rocket crash and if I hadn't been wearing my brain bucket, I likely would have died. That helmet is now a souveneur as helmets are only good for one crash, then they need to be retired (they're like a cracked egg shell once they've been dropped). Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BikerBabe 0 #40 June 4, 2003 How the hell did I miss this thread? Obviously from my name, I ride a bike. I still consider myself a newbie motorcycle rider, though, and I've been riding for 4 years. I would highly recommend the MSF course...it's totally worth it, and will teach you how to be as safe as possible on a bike. Also, an almost unanimous opinion among bikers and dealers is that a Suzuki SV 650 or SV 650S is a wonderful starter bike. That's what I have, and I'll probably not sell it for a good long while. It has a shorter sit height than most sportier bikes, and it is very light compared to others in it's class. I think the advice to get a dirtbike and ride that for a year is really good. It doesn't have to be a big one, and you can pick up a used 100cc dirt bike for cheap. Good luck, have fun, and be safe.Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
towerrat 0 #41 June 4, 2003 ***Post: There are two types of motorcyclists in this world: 1) Those who have crashed. 2) Those who have yet to crash. Quoteexactly! if you haven't dumped your bike it's because you're not riding it.Play stupid games, win stupid prizes! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites KawiZX900 0 #42 June 4, 2003 You know what.. I beg to differ on the whole Motorcycle saftey course thing.... Maybee... but if you are at all an aggressive type of performance oriented person I'd run not walk to your nearest motorcycle shop or Borders or barnes an noble's and buy these two books A Twist of the Wrist 1- Keith Kode A Twist of the Wrist 2- Keith Kode He'll walk you through the basics in one with really nice diagrams, and thorough explanations that any grease monkey or intellectual can understand explaining camber, pitch, apex's and all kinds of fun stuff. Some of the crotch rocket makers used to include a couple free trained days at a pro circuit race track in the purchase of a new bike, I don't think anyone does that now, but I would seriously consider investing 1000 bucks in the rider courses wherever you are, I need to make it up to Laguna Seca sometime next fall.. But it was my opinion, and my buddy Dave's that the MSC would drill some of the wrong things to do in a tight situation into your head.... like what do you do if you're crusing the freeway at 85 and your're boxed in and in your lane theres a wood pallete or somthin? A:) you compress your front fork, and as its coming back up, you jam on the gas and help the collum back with your arms and drive over that shit on one wheel. Better chance of moving over or through it if you've already got the body of the bike over the object and the one wheel going over has power.. Or if you know your're going to wipe, and your're goiing 140.. what do you do? take both hands of the bars and get big like in AFF you'll be blown off the back of the bike by the realative wind and you'll lose at least 40 mph off your impending crash than if you statyed with the bike.. If you've got your leather on than you'll be on your back pad and sliding into thrid... (buy Joe Rocket gear) then theres the whole do I stay with the bike or let go of the bike? I'll share Dave's story with you, one time down on the track he just got his body on top of the side of the bike that wasnt busy grinding it self into the deck. Saving himself some road rash.. ANother time he lost it doing 160ish and was sliding on his back, telling me that he'd shift sides of his back to distribute the intense heat that was searing his armor into his skin, well he looked at the guy next to him that was sliding as well and he thought he was going slow enough to stand up. Wrong! He was still cruising when he went to get up and got pitched over a couple times and back onto his back. That wreck burned through his metal heel plated boots and ground one of his heels down. Looks like someone cut a 2.5 tablespoon block of butter sized chunk of flesh out of his heel... don't wear sneakers when you ride, there is nothing quite as unnerving as having your laces get stuck in the fuckin shifter... That sux.... Accelerate hard to get them looking, then slam on the fronts and rollright beside the car, hanging the back wheel at eye level for a few seconds. Guaranteed reaction- Dave Sonsky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MagicLou 0 #43 June 4, 2003 QuoteRember the primary rules of biking - you are invisible and everyone wants to kill you and you will be OK. That philosophy was let me survive as one of the "still to crash" crowd for 24 years. I've driven every sport & super bike out there (remember the Honda CBX I sold my last bike 4 years ago when I bought my Corvette, and my blood boils every spring. I bought a 35th anniversary Trans Am last year, but that didn't help. So I just test drove a Honda 954-RR and a Honda RC-51. Still can't wipe the smile off my face. Kind of like my first FF. The point is don't throw a leg over one of these things unless you're willing to become an addict. (That includes paying HUGE insurance premiums ) Two finger wave. LouLou ___________________________________ . . . now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb - Dark Helmet Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wildblue 7 #44 June 4, 2003 QuoteHow the hell did I miss this thread? No kidding! Thanks for bumping it up... If you've never ridden before, take th MSF course. If this is your first bike, do not buy new (unless you have money to waste) and do not buy any modern super-sport bike (R6, Kawi 600, F4i, etc) - unless I'm on your life insurance policy. I will echo what bikerbabe said "Suzuki SV 650 or SV 650S is a wonderful starter bike" an ex500 is even a really nice bike, and can go fast enough to scare you. Don't but something new and fast with lots of plastic - you will drop it and be pissed. Your foot slips at a stop sign and the bike falls over, you just did $$ damage. And you will drop it. You'll hear just as many people say "Ah, start with the R6, you'll be fine, I was!" as you'll hear "yeah, 100 jumps? spinetto at 1.6? Sure! Go ahead, I did it and I was fine, just respect it" -- how many people have you seen or heard bust themselves up or kill themselves under a canopy they shouldn't have been under? You get the same thing with bikes. And please, please, please - wear a helmet at least. Boots, leather jacket, leather pants(or at least the kevlar reinforced jeans) and a good set of leather/kevlar gloves are even better. What's really frightening - you started this thread almost exactly like this one guy did a few years ago on a sportbike message board much like this one. He had one or two people tell him to go ahead and get the R6, he'd be fine. He had a flood of people beg him not to. He got the R6, he even post "hehehe! I'm gonna diiiiiie!" ...... he did. Slammed that nice pretty R6 that his daddy bought him into a telephone pole. I'll see if I can find the threads if you don't believe me.it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CanuckInUSA 0 #45 June 4, 2003 Good god I don't really know how to respond to such a post. But I'll try (and I'm sure we won't see eye to eye on every topic). But hopefully we can keep the flaming to a minimum as it's not my intentions to preach to people about motorcycles. I just feel that formal instruction saves lives that's all. QuoteYou know what.. I beg to differ on the whole Motorcycle saftey course thing.... Maybee... but if you are at all an aggressive type of performance oriented person I'd run not walk to your nearest motorcycle shop or Borders or barnes an noble's and buy these two books A Twist of the Wrist 1- Keith Kode A Twist of the Wrist 2- Keith Kode He'll walk you through the basics in one with really nice diagrams, and thorough explanations that any grease monkey or intellectual can understand explaining camber, pitch, apex's and all kinds of fun stuff. I do think reading the "Twist of the Wrist" books is worthwhile as they do have great information in them. But am I to understand that you think someone new to motorcycles should by pass actual physical instruction in favor of reading a book geared towards more advanced drivers? And then even worse, attempt to practice what is written in the book before a certain foundation of motorcycle skills are learned and ingrained into the new motorcyclist? You put a new meaning to the word "Donor-cycle" don't you. People need to be taught countersteering, breaking and basic control before then need to worry about the apex of a turn. Quotebut I would seriously consider investing 1000 bucks in the rider courses wherever you are, I need to make it up to Laguna Seca sometime next fall. Yes by all means once the motorcyclist has achived a certain skill and knowledge level, attending one of these courses is a great idea. QuoteBut it was my opinion, and my buddy Dave's that the MSC would drill some of the wrong things to do in a tight situation into your head.... like what do you do if you're crusing the freeway at 85 and your're boxed in and in your lane theres a wood pallete or somthin? A:) you compress your front fork, and as its coming back up, you jam on the gas and help the collum back with your arms and drive over that shit on one wheel. Better chance of moving over or through it if you've already got the body of the bike over the object and the one wheel going over has power. Dude I don't know where you're getting your negative information about safety courses (maybe not all courses are the same), but the one I attended in the mid 90s up in Canada had excellent instructors and they did teach me to do this. In fact, we went way beyond just the theory of this principle as the instructors had us physically drive over wooden crates and tires (in a control environment) to prove to ourselves that it can be done. QuoteOr if you know your're going to wipe, and your're goiing 140.. what do you do? take both hands of the bars and get big like in AFF you'll be blown off the back of the bike by the realative wind and you'll lose at least 40 mph off your impending crash than if you statyed with the bike. First off I have been 145 mph on my bike on a country road, so what I'm about to say is a little hypocritical. But dude those sort of speeds should be saved for the race track. People are risking organ donorship when they ride bikes at excessive speeds on city streets and highways. There are too many unknown variables (traffic and debris to name a few) on public roads to be riding a powerful machine near it's limits. QuoteIf you've got your leather on than you'll be on your back pad and sliding into thrid... (buy Joe Rocket gear) Yes leather, a helmet and back pad are highly recommended and mandatory on the racing circuits. But many recreational motorcyclists ignore this all important safety gear (very few have even seen a back pad let alone wear one) and they need this gear just as much if not more than the racer. In summary, I think we're not in total disagreement with some topics. But I'm obviously a little more cautious about the whole topic. Maybe because I have crashed, because I know people who've died and/or been crippled. And maybe because I'm likely older (I have no idea how old you are) and am more conservative with my motorcycling (I did briefly try recreational road racing in the mid 90s but quit because it was too expensive and dangerous for me at the time). I guess you can call me the motorcycle nazi. In fact substitute motorcycle with canopy and I guess I could sound like one of our friendly neighborhood canopy nazis here on dropzone. Peace bro and be careful on your crotch rocket. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,517 #46 June 4, 2003 QuoteI do think reading the "Twist of the Wrist" books is worthwhile as they do have great information in them. But am I to understand that you think someone new to motorcycles should by pass actual physical instruction in favor of reading a book geared towards more advanced drivers? And then even worse, attempt to practice what is written in the book before a certain foundation of motorcycle skills are learned and ingrained into the new motorcyclist? What he said. You're always better off learning the basics right and then going from there. You'll have a much longer riding career if you start on bikes that will forgive mistakes. Kinda like jumping small canopies, y'know... (ducking and running) Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites KawiZX900 0 #47 June 4, 2003 I guess i didnt phrase that right.... I meant to say, go to a course desinged around your purchase... if you get a rocket, go to rocket school.. they do have beginner track days to teach people how to handle the bike that's hands on w/video, professional instrucition and not just some tool with a book and a Marlboro who rode a few buckets to the county fair back in the day.... I didn't post that right at all... but at the tracks, the pros will put you in the know, the equivalant to canopy flight school I suppose. CannuckinUSA, your MSR sounds better than what I took in Cali. I drove around some cones at 5mph and thats it.... give me a couple hours and I'll post links... Accelerate hard to get them looking, then slam on the fronts and rollright beside the car, hanging the back wheel at eye level for a few seconds. Guaranteed reaction- Dave Sonsky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,517 #48 June 4, 2003 Quotethe MSR is just book work crap.. If you mean the MSF beginner's class, it's not. It's a 2-day class that includes learning how to ride, including some simulated minor emergencies, on THEIR bikes. That means you get to practice driving over your first 4X4, your first curb, your first gravel, all on someone else's lightweight bike. If you drop it, they'll help you pick it up, and you won't cry about it. There is no downside here. None. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites KawiZX900 0 #49 June 4, 2003 I guess i never even did one then. When I got my M licence they just gave me a written test and some freakin cones. I thought, hmmm thats it? I edited my post to remove (crap) cause it looks like i'm the one who's full of shit Here's a word to the wise, If you are following your buddies line through the twisties keep off his/her ass by 200 ft+ that way you don't make them feel crowded, forcing them to open it up to stupid speeds to get some breathing room.. And it also gives you plenty of reaction time in case they let theirs get from under em Accelerate hard to get them looking, then slam on the fronts and rollright beside the car, hanging the back wheel at eye level for a few seconds. Guaranteed reaction- Dave Sonsky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,517 #50 June 4, 2003 QuoteI guess i never even did one then. When I got my M licence they just gave me a written test and some freakin cones. There's an experienced riders' class too. You do a lot of the same things on your own bike. You get coached before doing the exciting stuff, so that you don't drop your bike. Might be worth looking into, especially if they have one that's got a lot of sport bike riders at it. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 2 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. 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KawiZX900 0 #42 June 4, 2003 You know what.. I beg to differ on the whole Motorcycle saftey course thing.... Maybee... but if you are at all an aggressive type of performance oriented person I'd run not walk to your nearest motorcycle shop or Borders or barnes an noble's and buy these two books A Twist of the Wrist 1- Keith Kode A Twist of the Wrist 2- Keith Kode He'll walk you through the basics in one with really nice diagrams, and thorough explanations that any grease monkey or intellectual can understand explaining camber, pitch, apex's and all kinds of fun stuff. Some of the crotch rocket makers used to include a couple free trained days at a pro circuit race track in the purchase of a new bike, I don't think anyone does that now, but I would seriously consider investing 1000 bucks in the rider courses wherever you are, I need to make it up to Laguna Seca sometime next fall.. But it was my opinion, and my buddy Dave's that the MSC would drill some of the wrong things to do in a tight situation into your head.... like what do you do if you're crusing the freeway at 85 and your're boxed in and in your lane theres a wood pallete or somthin? A:) you compress your front fork, and as its coming back up, you jam on the gas and help the collum back with your arms and drive over that shit on one wheel. Better chance of moving over or through it if you've already got the body of the bike over the object and the one wheel going over has power.. Or if you know your're going to wipe, and your're goiing 140.. what do you do? take both hands of the bars and get big like in AFF you'll be blown off the back of the bike by the realative wind and you'll lose at least 40 mph off your impending crash than if you statyed with the bike.. If you've got your leather on than you'll be on your back pad and sliding into thrid... (buy Joe Rocket gear) then theres the whole do I stay with the bike or let go of the bike? I'll share Dave's story with you, one time down on the track he just got his body on top of the side of the bike that wasnt busy grinding it self into the deck. Saving himself some road rash.. ANother time he lost it doing 160ish and was sliding on his back, telling me that he'd shift sides of his back to distribute the intense heat that was searing his armor into his skin, well he looked at the guy next to him that was sliding as well and he thought he was going slow enough to stand up. Wrong! He was still cruising when he went to get up and got pitched over a couple times and back onto his back. That wreck burned through his metal heel plated boots and ground one of his heels down. Looks like someone cut a 2.5 tablespoon block of butter sized chunk of flesh out of his heel... don't wear sneakers when you ride, there is nothing quite as unnerving as having your laces get stuck in the fuckin shifter... That sux.... Accelerate hard to get them looking, then slam on the fronts and rollright beside the car, hanging the back wheel at eye level for a few seconds. Guaranteed reaction- Dave Sonsky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MagicLou 0 #43 June 4, 2003 QuoteRember the primary rules of biking - you are invisible and everyone wants to kill you and you will be OK. That philosophy was let me survive as one of the "still to crash" crowd for 24 years. I've driven every sport & super bike out there (remember the Honda CBX I sold my last bike 4 years ago when I bought my Corvette, and my blood boils every spring. I bought a 35th anniversary Trans Am last year, but that didn't help. So I just test drove a Honda 954-RR and a Honda RC-51. Still can't wipe the smile off my face. Kind of like my first FF. The point is don't throw a leg over one of these things unless you're willing to become an addict. (That includes paying HUGE insurance premiums ) Two finger wave. LouLou ___________________________________ . . . now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb - Dark Helmet Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildblue 7 #44 June 4, 2003 QuoteHow the hell did I miss this thread? No kidding! Thanks for bumping it up... If you've never ridden before, take th MSF course. If this is your first bike, do not buy new (unless you have money to waste) and do not buy any modern super-sport bike (R6, Kawi 600, F4i, etc) - unless I'm on your life insurance policy. I will echo what bikerbabe said "Suzuki SV 650 or SV 650S is a wonderful starter bike" an ex500 is even a really nice bike, and can go fast enough to scare you. Don't but something new and fast with lots of plastic - you will drop it and be pissed. Your foot slips at a stop sign and the bike falls over, you just did $$ damage. And you will drop it. You'll hear just as many people say "Ah, start with the R6, you'll be fine, I was!" as you'll hear "yeah, 100 jumps? spinetto at 1.6? Sure! Go ahead, I did it and I was fine, just respect it" -- how many people have you seen or heard bust themselves up or kill themselves under a canopy they shouldn't have been under? You get the same thing with bikes. And please, please, please - wear a helmet at least. Boots, leather jacket, leather pants(or at least the kevlar reinforced jeans) and a good set of leather/kevlar gloves are even better. What's really frightening - you started this thread almost exactly like this one guy did a few years ago on a sportbike message board much like this one. He had one or two people tell him to go ahead and get the R6, he'd be fine. He had a flood of people beg him not to. He got the R6, he even post "hehehe! I'm gonna diiiiiie!" ...... he did. Slammed that nice pretty R6 that his daddy bought him into a telephone pole. I'll see if I can find the threads if you don't believe me.it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #45 June 4, 2003 Good god I don't really know how to respond to such a post. But I'll try (and I'm sure we won't see eye to eye on every topic). But hopefully we can keep the flaming to a minimum as it's not my intentions to preach to people about motorcycles. I just feel that formal instruction saves lives that's all. QuoteYou know what.. I beg to differ on the whole Motorcycle saftey course thing.... Maybee... but if you are at all an aggressive type of performance oriented person I'd run not walk to your nearest motorcycle shop or Borders or barnes an noble's and buy these two books A Twist of the Wrist 1- Keith Kode A Twist of the Wrist 2- Keith Kode He'll walk you through the basics in one with really nice diagrams, and thorough explanations that any grease monkey or intellectual can understand explaining camber, pitch, apex's and all kinds of fun stuff. I do think reading the "Twist of the Wrist" books is worthwhile as they do have great information in them. But am I to understand that you think someone new to motorcycles should by pass actual physical instruction in favor of reading a book geared towards more advanced drivers? And then even worse, attempt to practice what is written in the book before a certain foundation of motorcycle skills are learned and ingrained into the new motorcyclist? You put a new meaning to the word "Donor-cycle" don't you. People need to be taught countersteering, breaking and basic control before then need to worry about the apex of a turn. Quotebut I would seriously consider investing 1000 bucks in the rider courses wherever you are, I need to make it up to Laguna Seca sometime next fall. Yes by all means once the motorcyclist has achived a certain skill and knowledge level, attending one of these courses is a great idea. QuoteBut it was my opinion, and my buddy Dave's that the MSC would drill some of the wrong things to do in a tight situation into your head.... like what do you do if you're crusing the freeway at 85 and your're boxed in and in your lane theres a wood pallete or somthin? A:) you compress your front fork, and as its coming back up, you jam on the gas and help the collum back with your arms and drive over that shit on one wheel. Better chance of moving over or through it if you've already got the body of the bike over the object and the one wheel going over has power. Dude I don't know where you're getting your negative information about safety courses (maybe not all courses are the same), but the one I attended in the mid 90s up in Canada had excellent instructors and they did teach me to do this. In fact, we went way beyond just the theory of this principle as the instructors had us physically drive over wooden crates and tires (in a control environment) to prove to ourselves that it can be done. QuoteOr if you know your're going to wipe, and your're goiing 140.. what do you do? take both hands of the bars and get big like in AFF you'll be blown off the back of the bike by the realative wind and you'll lose at least 40 mph off your impending crash than if you statyed with the bike. First off I have been 145 mph on my bike on a country road, so what I'm about to say is a little hypocritical. But dude those sort of speeds should be saved for the race track. People are risking organ donorship when they ride bikes at excessive speeds on city streets and highways. There are too many unknown variables (traffic and debris to name a few) on public roads to be riding a powerful machine near it's limits. QuoteIf you've got your leather on than you'll be on your back pad and sliding into thrid... (buy Joe Rocket gear) Yes leather, a helmet and back pad are highly recommended and mandatory on the racing circuits. But many recreational motorcyclists ignore this all important safety gear (very few have even seen a back pad let alone wear one) and they need this gear just as much if not more than the racer. In summary, I think we're not in total disagreement with some topics. But I'm obviously a little more cautious about the whole topic. Maybe because I have crashed, because I know people who've died and/or been crippled. And maybe because I'm likely older (I have no idea how old you are) and am more conservative with my motorcycling (I did briefly try recreational road racing in the mid 90s but quit because it was too expensive and dangerous for me at the time). I guess you can call me the motorcycle nazi. In fact substitute motorcycle with canopy and I guess I could sound like one of our friendly neighborhood canopy nazis here on dropzone. Peace bro and be careful on your crotch rocket. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,517 #46 June 4, 2003 QuoteI do think reading the "Twist of the Wrist" books is worthwhile as they do have great information in them. But am I to understand that you think someone new to motorcycles should by pass actual physical instruction in favor of reading a book geared towards more advanced drivers? And then even worse, attempt to practice what is written in the book before a certain foundation of motorcycle skills are learned and ingrained into the new motorcyclist? What he said. You're always better off learning the basics right and then going from there. You'll have a much longer riding career if you start on bikes that will forgive mistakes. Kinda like jumping small canopies, y'know... (ducking and running) Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KawiZX900 0 #47 June 4, 2003 I guess i didnt phrase that right.... I meant to say, go to a course desinged around your purchase... if you get a rocket, go to rocket school.. they do have beginner track days to teach people how to handle the bike that's hands on w/video, professional instrucition and not just some tool with a book and a Marlboro who rode a few buckets to the county fair back in the day.... I didn't post that right at all... but at the tracks, the pros will put you in the know, the equivalant to canopy flight school I suppose. CannuckinUSA, your MSR sounds better than what I took in Cali. I drove around some cones at 5mph and thats it.... give me a couple hours and I'll post links... Accelerate hard to get them looking, then slam on the fronts and rollright beside the car, hanging the back wheel at eye level for a few seconds. Guaranteed reaction- Dave Sonsky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,517 #48 June 4, 2003 Quotethe MSR is just book work crap.. If you mean the MSF beginner's class, it's not. It's a 2-day class that includes learning how to ride, including some simulated minor emergencies, on THEIR bikes. That means you get to practice driving over your first 4X4, your first curb, your first gravel, all on someone else's lightweight bike. If you drop it, they'll help you pick it up, and you won't cry about it. There is no downside here. None. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KawiZX900 0 #49 June 4, 2003 I guess i never even did one then. When I got my M licence they just gave me a written test and some freakin cones. I thought, hmmm thats it? I edited my post to remove (crap) cause it looks like i'm the one who's full of shit Here's a word to the wise, If you are following your buddies line through the twisties keep off his/her ass by 200 ft+ that way you don't make them feel crowded, forcing them to open it up to stupid speeds to get some breathing room.. And it also gives you plenty of reaction time in case they let theirs get from under em Accelerate hard to get them looking, then slam on the fronts and rollright beside the car, hanging the back wheel at eye level for a few seconds. Guaranteed reaction- Dave Sonsky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,517 #50 June 4, 2003 QuoteI guess i never even did one then. When I got my M licence they just gave me a written test and some freakin cones. There's an experienced riders' class too. You do a lot of the same things on your own bike. You get coached before doing the exciting stuff, so that you don't drop your bike. Might be worth looking into, especially if they have one that's got a lot of sport bike riders at it. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
