NeedToJump 0 #226 June 13, 2003 First off I am an American citizen, secondly I never said that the US does not provide assistance for Israel. The US provides a TREMENDOUS amount of assistance in many many ways and I am very grateful for it. Yes there is a problem and I acknowledge that the US and Israel are on the same side of the problem - we are both against the terroist extremist groups, NOT against Muslims. How can you try to judge me and post my views (that you got TOTALLY WRONG) on this forum? Please, don't speak for me and don't pretend that you know how I think.Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steel 0 #227 June 13, 2003 No its pretty clear that they hated us first. Think about Afganistan, how much we supported them because we didn't want the Soviets to take them over and then they gave a safe haven to Ossama Bin Laden. We are not talking about one man we are talking about one country. A country that we helped and then helped sponsor that horrific attack on us.If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #228 June 13, 2003 QuoteNo its pretty clear that they hated us first. See Wendy, you got it all wrong. It is ok because they hated us first. They hate all of us first - BAD We hate them all back - PERFECTLY FINE Hopefully you will now understand this very obvious fact. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steel 0 #229 June 13, 2003 - we are both against the terroist extremist groups, NOT against Muslims. You know what that sounds like to me. Imagine if I had a pet alligator and then I showed him to you and you pet him and you found he was very nice. Then you started telling people some alligators are nice. Well technically you wouldn't be lying because you found my exceptional alligator to be nice. But realistically if you convinced certain people that some alligators were nice then these same people you convinced would be out there loosing limbs.If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FliegendeWolf 0 #230 June 13, 2003 It might be a useful exercise to read back through all of your posts and replace the word "Muslim" with the word "American" and vice-versa.A One that Isn't Cold is Scarcely a One at All Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #231 June 13, 2003 SkyDekker, you over complexify things... They hate all of us first - BAD We hate them all back - PERFECTLY FINERemster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #232 June 13, 2003 QuoteSkyDekker, you over complexify things... They hate all of us first - BAD We hate them all back - PERFECTLY FINE I am sorry Remi, I stand before you all, completly and utterly corrected Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #233 June 13, 2003 QuoteImagine if I had a pet alligator Of course, if you define Muslims as terrorists, its pretty easy to prove that a Muslim is a terrorist...Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeedToJump 0 #234 June 13, 2003 QuoteYou know what that sounds like to me. You know what? At this point I really don't care what that sounds like to you. Those are my views which I am entitled to and you have yours which you are entitled to. What I do care about is you falsely voicing my opinions what you in fact have no idea what they are. QuoteRemember all Israelis are not like Ari (NeedtoJump). Most of them are very grateful to the U.S.. That statement made by you has absolutely no basis in reality. I disagree with what you say (and have experienced the situation first-hand) so suddenly I'm against the United States? Tell me where I said I am not grateful to the US... please...Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steel 0 #235 June 13, 2003 Please help educate me here. Because I can come up with many reasons for the dislike with the Palestinians but what bad did we ever do to Afganistan for them to hate us. I will forget all the good things we did for them but just tell me what bad thing did we ever do to that country. (Before they sponsored 9/11 that is ofcourse)If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeedToJump 0 #236 June 13, 2003 We went into Afganistan during the Cold War to protect them (us) from Russia. We put money and weapons into their country and promised to support them and help them in return for their allegiance against Russia. Once the USSR fel apart we left leaving their country in its condition without giving them any further assistance and following through with our promises. Once we had no more political interests there, we left leaving them pissed at us. That is my understanding of it which could be wrong. If anyone else knows more, please correct me.Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steel 0 #237 June 13, 2003 Well I will give you that you did make a point for a possibility. However, I think that falls extremely short of any justification.If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,070 #238 June 13, 2003 >But what makes me laugh is that unless your one of them they hate you too! Hmm, all the Muslims I work with seem to like me. As far as I can tell, the only hatred on this thread is coming from you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #239 June 13, 2003 Quoteall the Muslims I work with seem to like me. That proves it then Bill, you must be an Aligator... eehh... I mean a terrorist... ehhhh.. I mean a Muslim, yeah, that must be it...Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,070 #240 June 13, 2003 >No its pretty clear that they hated us first. I think I tried that one in like 3rd grade. >Think about Afganistan, how much we supported them . . . We supported them by giving millions in weapons and ammunition to fanatic terrorists. > . . . and then they gave a safe haven to Ossama Bin Laden. Bin Laden _was_ one of those fanatic terrorists. We helped create him. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rendezvous 0 #241 June 13, 2003 dude you don't know diddly about what happened in Afganistan then. Afganistan would have been a happy and prosperous country had the Soviets and us not made it our playing fields to see who could screw whom better. Let me enlighten you with the facts without too much detail: In 1973 Afganistan, a very normal country at that time, need funds for development and modernization. The goverment of Afganistan approached the US and the Soviets for help but was turned down because of the US and Pakistan alliance. Afganistan and Pakistan were at the time and until the Taliban came into power opposed to each other due to territorial disputes. The Afgan goverment however was received possitively by the Soviets. The Soviet Union had been looking for this opportunity and immediately agreed to provide financial and infrastructure support. Foreign aid soon became foreign intervention. Once Daoud realized the gamble that he had made, it was too late. The Soviets became entrenched in Afghanistan, initially in the unsuccessful propping up of the minority Afghan communist parties, and finally with the official invasion of Afghanistan in 1979. US could not afford the growth Soviet influence in the region and specailly Afganistan which was too strategically placed to be overlooked. Result,America responded by throwing $2 to $3 billion into the Afghan war against the Soviets, relying on Pakistan to help shape the U.S. strategy. Because of its territorial disputes with Afghanistan, Pakistan has never been a proponent of Afghan nationalism. Instead, Pakistan encouraged an Islamic fundamentalist approach to mobilizing against the Soviets. Harnessing the anger of the Muslim world over the invasion, the United States and Pakistan supported an Islamic war against the Soviet Union. The CIA went all out to promote Islamic Jihad. It enticed the Afgans to bocome Mujahids and fight for their faith. The war that lasted 10 years as a result of the US-Soviet enimity left 1.5 million Afgans dead, 5 million refugees, the exodus or death of its intellectual community, more than a million landmines, 500,000 widows, hundreds of thousands of orphans, and extremist Islamic groups in Afghanistan armed with some of the deadliest American weapons. As the soviet union fell the interest the US and the west lost interest in the region leaving behind a mess and a political vacuum for the next 10 years. And you my friend say, we helped them and they don't like us. Do you even understand what loosing 1.5 million people means in a country that made the mistake of seeking foreign aid so that it could also become modern and prosperous. For you Afgans are the Turban clad guys on CNN. Do you even know any Afgans. I suggest go find some and then speak to them about what they've been through due to our Cold War and 10 years after that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steel 0 #242 June 13, 2003 Wow! Ok so what I am getting from this is that we encouraged Islamic Jihad because in this case if benifitted us since it was directed toward the Soviets. Later when the Soviets were out of the picture it was redirected toward us. Ok so that was a mistake that we made. From the dates you gave, blame could be place on Nixon, Ford or Carter but either way it was an American mistake. One that is being made right now. We don't care that they are insane as long and they direct their hostilities toward somebody else. Then was the Soviets now I am not sure who if anybody. But we still are playing this game suggesting that their countries are not acting as breeding grounds for Islamic Jihad (insane individuals).If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
harryskydives 0 #243 June 13, 2003 Sorta like we did in Salem. We killed people systematically there because we thought they practiced some bizarre religion. Oh so now if we can find something really f uped in history, then that makes it OK to travel the world killing people of a different religion. And i believe the Salem witch trials were caused by lysergic acid poisoning. Most of us now realize it is wrong to kill people just because of their religion! Don't run out of altitude and experience at the same time... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
harryskydives 0 #244 June 13, 2003 of the proclamation of the state of Israel there were three jewish extremist groups operating in the region. Yeah we refer to that time as WORLD WAR II. SO your answer to my question is: Some ones great grandfather pissed on someones cousins uncle and the UN does not give the Palestine arabs enough welfare. There fore it is alright to preach hate and death from the Mulsim pulpit. Don't run out of altitude and experience at the same time... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,070 #245 June 13, 2003 >Oh so now if we can find something really f uped in history, then that > makes it OK to travel the world killing people of a different religion. Uh, no. We've figured out that's wrong nowadays (at least most of us have.) It would be good if we could stop pushing that as a solution. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
harryskydives 0 #246 June 13, 2003 It would be good if we could stop pushing that as a solution. Now i really do not understand. To stop killing in the name of religion is not a solution. Seems to me it could be a hugh start. Please let me know your answer. I will forward it to the Presidents of USA Philippines, Thailand, India, Pakistan, Iran (ooops), Cambodia, Malayisia, France ( naah), Spain, Lets just say Africa, Asia, Europe, Australia, N & S America. Don't run out of altitude and experience at the same time... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sfc 1 #247 June 13, 2003 Quote- Imagine if I had a pet alligator and then I showed him to you and you pet him and you found he was very nice. What a total pile of horse shit (I mean the post just incase anyone thought I was making a personal attack) Imagine I was viewing dz.com and I found one right right racist and came to the conclusion that all skydivers were the same... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
