benw853 0 #1 February 16, 2012 My packing seems to be coming along nicely. My only problem seems to be keeping line tension while packing. My lines are dacron and have a bit more bulk. Whenever I look back to check the lines, it seems that they are always dangling. my riser are straight and the slider is down on the stops. sometimes they are tight but always loosen back up. By the time I stow the lines, they are not even or organized stows because the lines seem to be uneven. I fell like I have tried everything. Why can't I keep them even!!! Advice, techniques? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #2 February 16, 2012 Milking the lines is something better learned by hands-on with a teacher.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,439 #3 February 16, 2012 Milking the lines is best not done at all. If, instead of trying to make each stow look perfect, you keep the line length as much as possible the same across all the lines, you'll find that htey look a lot better. Grab a bight of lines; put them in a stow. To make them look even, pull the loops (GENTLY) so that what's between is even. But don't pull hard enough to make any loop look big. Keep doing that until you're at the end -- that way the lines will all be pretty even at the end. If you take up a little bit of unevenness with each stow, they'll look great and not be uneven. And yes, getting an in-person demonstration or lesson is always best. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
itsbs2 0 #4 February 16, 2012 QuoteMilking the lines is best not done at all.Quote why is milking the lines not good to be done? I was taught to do this during my packing class and am just asking out of curiosity. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites popsjumper 2 #5 February 16, 2012 QuoteMilking the lines is best not done at all. I beg to differ. Quotehtey look a lot better....To make them look even.... But don't pull hard enough to make any loop look big. On the one hand, neatness counts for something. What counts for more is that the lines are even enough that the opening forces are as even as possible across all the lines as they pull through the stow band. What do you think might happen if short lines start pulling through the stow before the long ones? QuoteIf you take up a little bit of unevenness with each stow, they'll look great and not be uneven. You are describing milking here.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterrigger1 2 #6 February 16, 2012 Quote Milking the lines is best not done at all. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I beg to differ. Pops, Us very old school people were taught not to milk the lines. The reason was that our mains (rounds) had type II or type III lines that stretched if you milked them. If you did milk them, you ended ud with lots of loose lines at the canopy. The same still holds true to some round reserves packed today, so it is considered a bad technique to learn. Quote In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you take up a little bit of unevenness with each stow, they'll look great and not be uneven. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You are describing milking here. Not really. True milking of the lines is when a person uses his or her hand to tension the lines by sliding the hand up the lines toward the canopy. What Wendy is refering to is holding the lines in one hand (usually at the last stow and then with the other hand, moving up (without touching the lines)to the approximate next stow and pulling the slack lines somewhat towards yourself and the H/C. Then the stow is made. Call it a reverse milking of the lines so to speak. Cheers, MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,439 #7 February 16, 2012 Milking the lines (as I remember it being called back in the day) was when you pushed all the unevenness down towards the connector links -- then you ended up with a mass of spaghetti at the end, and beautiful stows until then. Not a good thing. That's from rigger class in the 1970's -- a couple of things have changed since then. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pchapman 279 #8 February 16, 2012 Ok, so it looks like "milking" may be a poor term to use on its own as it has different meanings to different people. You can milk all the slack bits of line to the canopy or to the risers and have a real mess there. Bad. One would have to be more specific about just what part of the lines are being milked when using the term. So I think what Wendy said is a reasonable way to put it, although it is tough to explain in text on the internet: QuoteIf, instead of trying to make each stow look perfect, you keep the line length as much as possible the same across all the lines, you'll find that htey look a lot better. [...] If you take up a little bit of unevenness with each stow, they'll look great and not be uneven. Going back to the original post: Quoteit seems that they are always dangling. my riser are straight and the slider is down on the stops. sometimes they are tight but always loosen back up. By the time I stow the lines, they are not even or organized stows because the lines seem to be uneven. Things may not be that bad when the canopy is over your shoulder -- only very slight differences in the lines may make them dangle in different curves and look sloppy. A BIT of sloppiness is OK because it can be fixed when the canopy is laid down -- that's a chance to put tension on the canopy and on the lines right at the canopy, to pull the lines tight, away from the harness. (Make sure the harness is anchored well and not sliding across the floor. More experienced packers can handle packing with less tension, but novices will have more trouble.) Pretty much at every stage one re- tensions the lines if they lose tension -- something which is easy to have happen. It can happen when laying the canopy down (so re-tension the lines), when the canopy is S-folded (so re-tension), when one is starting to stow the lines (so re-tension). But when doing the stows, don't overdo taking unevenness out of the bulk of the line, as that may make the next stow too uneven. If the lines started out well tensioned, then there shouldn't be too much unevenness 'coming out of' the line when making each stow. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites popsjumper 2 #9 February 16, 2012 QuoteMilking the lines (as I remember it being called back in the day) was when you pushed all the unevenness down towards the connector links -- then you ended up with a mass of spaghetti at the end, and beautiful stows until then. Not a good thing. That's from rigger class in the 1970's -- a couple of things have changed since then. Wendy P. Yes...as I remember it that way too. What's different today, and what I am saying, is "milking that slack towards the canopy instead of towards the links so that, at the end, you have nice even lines to stow in the container." That allows an even pull through the stows at deployment. The key is to start with evenness and you'll end with evenness. Maybe it's just a matter of semantics.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites popsjumper 2 #10 February 16, 2012 Quote Pops, Us very old school people were taught not to milk the lines. The reason was that our mains (rounds) had type II or type III lines that stretched if you milked them. If you did milk them, you ended ud with lots of loose lines at the canopy. The same still holds true to some round reserves packed today, so it is considered a bad technique to learn. No argument there "old school people". Quote If you take up a little bit of unevenness with each stow, they'll look great and not be uneven. You are describing milking here. Quote Not really. True milking of the lines is when a person uses his or her hand to tension the lines by sliding the hand up the lines toward the canopy. Unless I misunderstood, that is what Wendy was saying in her description..."taking up a bit of unevenness with each stow." Quote Call it a reverse milking of the lines so to speak. Which is why I commented on "milking" and questioning the process. Apparently, we are talking about the same thing. Keep in mind we are talking about sport canopies, not rounds and reserves. For sport canopies, "milk" the slack towards the canopy as you make your stows.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites popsjumper 2 #11 February 16, 2012 Keep in mind that we are addressing young jumpers here. Let's not confuse them with "old school" procedures, eh?My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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popsjumper 2 #5 February 16, 2012 QuoteMilking the lines is best not done at all. I beg to differ. Quotehtey look a lot better....To make them look even.... But don't pull hard enough to make any loop look big. On the one hand, neatness counts for something. What counts for more is that the lines are even enough that the opening forces are as even as possible across all the lines as they pull through the stow band. What do you think might happen if short lines start pulling through the stow before the long ones? QuoteIf you take up a little bit of unevenness with each stow, they'll look great and not be uneven. You are describing milking here.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #6 February 16, 2012 Quote Milking the lines is best not done at all. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I beg to differ. Pops, Us very old school people were taught not to milk the lines. The reason was that our mains (rounds) had type II or type III lines that stretched if you milked them. If you did milk them, you ended ud with lots of loose lines at the canopy. The same still holds true to some round reserves packed today, so it is considered a bad technique to learn. Quote In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you take up a little bit of unevenness with each stow, they'll look great and not be uneven. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You are describing milking here. Not really. True milking of the lines is when a person uses his or her hand to tension the lines by sliding the hand up the lines toward the canopy. What Wendy is refering to is holding the lines in one hand (usually at the last stow and then with the other hand, moving up (without touching the lines)to the approximate next stow and pulling the slack lines somewhat towards yourself and the H/C. Then the stow is made. Call it a reverse milking of the lines so to speak. Cheers, MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,439 #7 February 16, 2012 Milking the lines (as I remember it being called back in the day) was when you pushed all the unevenness down towards the connector links -- then you ended up with a mass of spaghetti at the end, and beautiful stows until then. Not a good thing. That's from rigger class in the 1970's -- a couple of things have changed since then. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 279 #8 February 16, 2012 Ok, so it looks like "milking" may be a poor term to use on its own as it has different meanings to different people. You can milk all the slack bits of line to the canopy or to the risers and have a real mess there. Bad. One would have to be more specific about just what part of the lines are being milked when using the term. So I think what Wendy said is a reasonable way to put it, although it is tough to explain in text on the internet: QuoteIf, instead of trying to make each stow look perfect, you keep the line length as much as possible the same across all the lines, you'll find that htey look a lot better. [...] If you take up a little bit of unevenness with each stow, they'll look great and not be uneven. Going back to the original post: Quoteit seems that they are always dangling. my riser are straight and the slider is down on the stops. sometimes they are tight but always loosen back up. By the time I stow the lines, they are not even or organized stows because the lines seem to be uneven. Things may not be that bad when the canopy is over your shoulder -- only very slight differences in the lines may make them dangle in different curves and look sloppy. A BIT of sloppiness is OK because it can be fixed when the canopy is laid down -- that's a chance to put tension on the canopy and on the lines right at the canopy, to pull the lines tight, away from the harness. (Make sure the harness is anchored well and not sliding across the floor. More experienced packers can handle packing with less tension, but novices will have more trouble.) Pretty much at every stage one re- tensions the lines if they lose tension -- something which is easy to have happen. It can happen when laying the canopy down (so re-tension the lines), when the canopy is S-folded (so re-tension), when one is starting to stow the lines (so re-tension). But when doing the stows, don't overdo taking unevenness out of the bulk of the line, as that may make the next stow too uneven. If the lines started out well tensioned, then there shouldn't be too much unevenness 'coming out of' the line when making each stow. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #9 February 16, 2012 QuoteMilking the lines (as I remember it being called back in the day) was when you pushed all the unevenness down towards the connector links -- then you ended up with a mass of spaghetti at the end, and beautiful stows until then. Not a good thing. That's from rigger class in the 1970's -- a couple of things have changed since then. Wendy P. Yes...as I remember it that way too. What's different today, and what I am saying, is "milking that slack towards the canopy instead of towards the links so that, at the end, you have nice even lines to stow in the container." That allows an even pull through the stows at deployment. The key is to start with evenness and you'll end with evenness. Maybe it's just a matter of semantics.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #10 February 16, 2012 Quote Pops, Us very old school people were taught not to milk the lines. The reason was that our mains (rounds) had type II or type III lines that stretched if you milked them. If you did milk them, you ended ud with lots of loose lines at the canopy. The same still holds true to some round reserves packed today, so it is considered a bad technique to learn. No argument there "old school people". Quote If you take up a little bit of unevenness with each stow, they'll look great and not be uneven. You are describing milking here. Quote Not really. True milking of the lines is when a person uses his or her hand to tension the lines by sliding the hand up the lines toward the canopy. Unless I misunderstood, that is what Wendy was saying in her description..."taking up a bit of unevenness with each stow." Quote Call it a reverse milking of the lines so to speak. Which is why I commented on "milking" and questioning the process. Apparently, we are talking about the same thing. Keep in mind we are talking about sport canopies, not rounds and reserves. For sport canopies, "milk" the slack towards the canopy as you make your stows.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #11 February 16, 2012 Keep in mind that we are addressing young jumpers here. Let's not confuse them with "old school" procedures, eh?My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
