skydiverek 63 #1 February 27, 2012 Is it based on the Jerry's B "RAX" system, or BASIK's "LES"?: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=311134958899600&set=a.296035097076253.82007.272611446085285&type=3&theater http://www.youtube.com/user/SkyWideSystems/videos http://www.facebook.com/SkyWideSystems http://www.swsrigs.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alexey 6 #2 February 27, 2012 It is based on "RAX"Lexa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KellyF 16 #3 February 27, 2012 From what I can make out of the drawing in the facebook link, it looks more like it's based on Eric Fradet's concepts where the straightening of the bridle pulls a pin and disconnects the RSL. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverek 63 #4 February 27, 2012 Eric Fradet's Interlock is here: http://images2.freshpatents.com/pdf/US20090127395A1.pdf Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fcajump 164 #5 February 27, 2012 Jerry B - VERY Nice!! CONGRATS. So, when is it going to be in a rig at my local dealer?? JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BKR 0 #6 February 27, 2012 QuoteFrom what I can make out of the drawing in the facebook link, it looks more like it's based on Eric Fradet's concepts where the straightening of the bridle pulls a pin and disconnects the RSL. Hi Kelly based on the L.E.S. Eric's baby before the Interlock.Jérôme Bunker Basik Air Concept www.basik.fr http://www.facebook.com/pages/Le-Luc-France/BASIK-AIR-CONCEPT/172133350468 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alexey 6 #7 February 27, 2012 Sorry guys, but its for sure based on RAX. We have posted a schematic drawing, that describes the general principles of operation (extraction of reserve parachute by cuted-away main), when we started installing DRD not only on military systems (where it was for several years now), but also to civil rigs. Sorry for incomprehension. Alexey Sharadkin, owner of SWS and designer of Fire h\c.Lexa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,436 #8 February 27, 2012 Hi Bartek, Quote Is it based on the Jerry's B "RAX" system, or BASIK's "LES"?: It is SWS's version of the RAX System. Alexey tried to duplicate the RAX from the drawings in Eric Fradet's rigging book, but he could not get it completely figured out. He contacted me & I sent him a mockup along with the instructions. SWS photos attached. Anything else? JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beatnik 2 #9 February 27, 2012 It really looks like the drawing in Eric's Patent even if it is a version of the RAX. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverek 63 #10 February 28, 2012 Working Interlock link (view, do not download): http://www.freepatentsonline.com/8074934.pdf Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,436 #11 February 28, 2012 Hi Beatnik, QuoteIt really looks like the drawing in Eric's Patent even if it is a version of the RAX. Eric & I have exchanged lot of info over the last few years. I have sent him one of my mockups of the RAX System. And he has installed his system on a mockup container that I sent to him. And we continue to exchange info at this time. They are very different systems. If you had both in your hand you would quickly see the differences. Not to be negative towards you, but you only have 'some' information to reach the conclusion that you did. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beatnik 2 #12 February 28, 2012 QuoteNot to be negative towards you, but you only have 'some' information to reach the conclusion that you did. I think you may have got me a little wrong Jerry. I was commenting on the drawing that was posted in the link from the OP not on the actual system. I just clicked on the last person in the thread when I posted. The pictures you posted are pretty small and I have trouble making out what you are trying to post. It doesn't matter, the sketch in the link looks just like the Interlock and nothing from any photos of your RAX system. I don't know what other information I needed to base my statement on. Edited to add the sketch I am referring to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,436 #13 February 28, 2012 Hi Beatnik, Quote I think you may have got me a little wrong I've been wrong before, and will be wrong in the future. From that sketch, there is a lot of similarity between Eric's system & the RAX System. But that is about where it ends; other than both do use a pin. Want to get your hands on a mockup of the RAX System? JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eric.fradet 17 #14 February 29, 2012 QuoteSorry guys, but its for sure based on RAX. We have posted a schematic drawing, that describes the general principles of operation (extraction of reserve parachute by cuted-away main), when we started installing DRD not only on military systems (where it was for several years now), but also to civil rigs. Sorry for incomprehension. Alexey Sharadkin, owner of SWS and designer of Fire h\c. _________________________________________________ Alexey Sharadkin wrote me down in march 2008 in order to get more information about my device, he obviously wanted to get it for free, so I did not want to cooperate since I have no confidence in a manufacturer working in a country as Russia, not based of a rule of law . Eric Fradet Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alexey 6 #15 February 29, 2012 Calling me and the whole country Russia thieves - you do very rude. (despite the fact that I live in Ukraine, it's another country, not Russia). Although, for you, we probably all are the same dirty communists, right? Returning back on topic: it is not too difficult, digging on the Internet, to perform reverse engineering of any idea now. If anyone want to do it. With so much photographs and diagrams of the patent's - it is not any difficult. We made a prototype of your design, and RAX. And we made real life test with your design, and the RAX. And RAX worked better. We connected with you and Jerry to find out - where the bugs are (if any), to make desicion - which idea to develop further. Jerry respond with mochup and all info needed to finish developing. And you respond with price for the idea and nothing more. So we worked with Jerry (thanks one more time for that). And it have nothing to do with recieving it for free or not - working on military contract, the price actually doesnt matter much...Lexa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Divalent 145 #16 February 29, 2012 FYI, if you reverse engineer a patented invention, or just read the patent application to figure out how to make one, or even if you just independently came up with the same invention on your own, you still will be infringing the patent by making the item. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KellyF 16 #17 February 29, 2012 Alexy, IMO, you should not put the small pocket on the bridle. Jerry and I disagree on this, but the the fact is it only makes for a little bit neater packing, but it WILL cause the pin to bend during a high speed malfunction/cutaway. This is because it prevents the RAX from rotating when the reserve PC takes over during the deployment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likestojump 3 #18 February 29, 2012 QuoteFYI, if you reverse engineer a patented invention, or just read the patent application to figure out how to make one, or even if you just independently came up with the same invention on your own, you still will be infringing the patent by making the item. You make the classic mistake of quoting US laws to a non-US entity. The OP is bound by Ukranian laws, which may be different (no idea if they are, or not). Also he just stated that it's possible to reverse engineer something, but he also said that he contacted the makers and the system he uses is done with the permission of the inventor (or at least so I read it) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alexey 6 #19 February 29, 2012 Quoteor just read the patent application to figure out how to make one I you sure about that? Quoteyou still will be infringing the patent by making the item. it depends on the law in your contry, does it? In our - it's protect invertor from someone who will sell (or anyway else make a profit) his idea.Lexa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Divalent 145 #20 February 29, 2012 QuoteQuoteor just read the patent application to figure out how to make one I you sure about that? Yes. The whole purpose of a patent is to give the inventor a limited period of exclusive rights in exchange for them disclosing to the world how to make/use the invention. (A patent could be invalidated if the patent application does not full disclose this information.) QuoteQuoteyou still will be infringing the patent by making the item. it depends on the law in your contry, does it? Yes, although in general, the laws and protection are almost the same for countries that are members of the World Trade Organization. Not sure if the Ukraine is a member, but regardless, a patent would prevent you from using, making, and selling a patented device in a WTO country without a licensing agreement from the patent holder. QuoteIn our - it's protect invertor from someone who will sell (or anyway else make a profit) his idea. Fine if that is Ukraine law. But making and using would be precluded in most other countries. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alexey 6 #21 February 29, 2012 QuoteIMO, you should not put the small pocket on the bridle. Jerry and I disagree on this, but the the fact is it only makes for a little bit neater packing, but it WILL cause the pin to bend during a high speed malfunction/cutaway. This is because it prevents the RAX from rotating when the reserve PC takes over during the deployment. I read about that somewhere before, but - its the way it was inverted by Jerry and tested by me. And we tested it with a few very-heavy-loads (for military). I dont want to do the re-test with new construction, and will use it as-is. If we will see any problems with RAX - I'll inform Jerry and you about that.Lexa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eric.fradet 17 #22 February 29, 2012 Returning back on topic: it is not too difficult, digging on the Internet, to perform reverse engineering of any idea now. If anyone want to do it. With so much photographs and diagrams of the patent's - it is not any difficult. ____________________________________________________ You are right when you wrote it is not as difficult to make a copy, it is much more difficult to have a brain and use it, I have no doubt what you Research and Development Department is a copy-cat machine, I responded with price because I spent a huge amount of money to develop and protect my device against people like you who just spend their time to steal other people idea, with no respect for intellectual property, otherwise you would at least ask to use my drawing patent...Of course I do not believe a word about what you say about price matter.... eric fradet Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KellyF 16 #23 February 29, 2012 Quote ...but - its the way it was inverted by Jerry and tested by me... I assume by "inverted" you mean invented.... INVENTED by Jerry???? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alexey 6 #24 February 29, 2012 QuoteYou are right when you wrote it is not as difficult to make a copy, it is much more difficult to have a brain and use it, I have no doubt what you Research and Development Department is a copy-cat machine, I responded with price because I spent a huge amount of money to develop and protect my device against people like you who just spend their time to steal other people idea, with no respect for intellectual property, otherwise you would at least ask to use my drawing patent...Of course I do not believe a word about what you say about price matter.... I'm shocked by your ability to see through space and time. And really impressed by your ability to test someone IQ trough the internet. May be you need to patent that ability too??? And - about your question, as a whole One good feature of life in our wild areas, where bears walk - is the ability to take responsibility for your words. It teaches not to say bad things without proof about the interlocutor, even over the Internet, because you can then answer for your words. God bless the civilization... Or - you can go further - see it as patent infringing - be a 100% civilized men, sue me... QuoteI assume by "inverted" you mean invented.... INVENTED by Jerry???? Sorry about that. I've recieved mochup and manual from Jerry. I need use different word for that....Lexa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,436 #25 February 29, 2012 Hi Kelly, Quote INVENTED by Jerry???? In SKYDIVING Magazine, Issue #325, dated August 2008, on Page 21 is an article about the RAX system. This article was written by the publisher, Mike Truffer based upon a number of emails between us. In the article it says: Baumchen doesn't claim to have invented the RAX. "Please give Kelly Farrington credit for the original idea," he said. "I only took it and ran with it because he was too busy." Just for the record. And I'm staying way far away from the dispute stuff. JerryBaumchen PS) The RAX System is not patented. It is free for anyone to use. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
