mbondvegas 0 #26 October 7, 2007 Quote I tell people to do what I did-buy 1.0 and eat your way to 1.3 I've recently done that. I was going to buy a 190 Pilot but recently gained an embarrasing amount of LB's (too much work, to many work lunches, too much travel, etc) and ended up getting a used 210 Safire2 at my "desired" wing loading (1.2 : 1). I would have preferred to have gotten there via the 190...but...- - - I am not afraid of tomorrow, for I have seen yesterday and I love today. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #27 October 7, 2007 Quote..These novice skydivers, like myself, are all fully capable adults... I disagree. YOU may be, but far be it to include everyone in that statement. By far, far and away, most youngsters don't know what they don't know and don't have the base knowledge to make intelligent decisions regardless of their "capability" as yet. Hence, they only have the recommendations of others to go by...which is the point of this thread. Quote...To lay blame at the feet of anyone but the person flying the canopy is a mistake... ...he can talk all day about how he was "peer pressured" into flying a small canopy, but ultimately he is going to be held solely responsible for that decision. I'm having a problem here. On the one hand you are correct. OTOH, if that's all they have to go by, I find it hard to fault a youngster who makes a decision based on inaccurate, misleading or totally false information provided by someone "more experienced". In those cases, I lay the "blame" squarely at the feet of the one doing the one-sided persuasion. We can help the youngsters by providing the other side of the story for them to see which way they go...then if they still insist on making an unwise decision, we need to stand up and just say NO. Case in hand: Young jumper here was pushed to buy a smaller-than-justifiable canopy based on info provided by one know-it-all "skygod". The others of us didn't know about it until after she was under canopy and then we had a "discussion" with both her and the DZO. She was allowed to jump it at her home DZ. She went to another DZ and they refused to let her jump it there citing it's size and her experience level. (Kudos to the other DZ!). She came back home and 'lo and behold she wound up hurting herself trying to make an avoidance manuever (tried to dodge a tree that suddenly jumped out in front of her. *sigh*) Now, 1 month later, she wants to buy one size smaller and the home DZ will not let her jump it here if she buys it. QuoteSome people will ALWAYS brag, and hand out their own brand of advice to new skydivers. To try to combat this would be like pulling teeth (very deeply rooted ones)... It is. But it needs to be done, IMHO. And it needs to be done more forcefully than is now generally occuring. Quotein my opinion, the focus should instead be on promoting responsibility and accountability to the new skydivers, in hopes that the idea of making educated, intelligent decisions prevails over a desire to impress people and fit in. Thank you for you're time. I can agree with this statement...IF those decisions are made based on adequate data. WE, those "combatting" the braggarts and foolhardy, need to do a better job of seeing that the youngsters have the whole story and not just one side of it. In summary: Please be careful what you are telling the youngsters. They, at first, only know what you tell them...make sure they are aware of and have available resources enough to be able to make intelligent decisions.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #28 October 7, 2007 Quote I see this phrase (or a variation thereof)..... That's damned assuming, if you ask me, for somebody to say that. How the hell does the speaker know what's going to bore the listener? Quote Are we creating a self-fulfilling prophecy? Are we planting a seed when we say "You'll get bored"? Yes. When you are addressing a youngster that has no knowledge base, you're telling them to expect it. Quote Are we creating a culture in which not downsizing is somehow "wrong"? Yes...and adding to a mind-set that already exists. Quote Are we planting a seed when we say "You'll get bored"? It's just sort of interesting to me that this statement is so very accepted within the community at the same time that we fight to keep 100-jump wonders off of highly-loaded, higher-performance canopies. At the same time, we've given them full license to say "I'm bored." And the fight goes on. What's interesting to me is that the "downsize" crowd is so persistent even when faced with logic and reason. You gotta give them credit for being so hard to battle.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #29 October 7, 2007 Quote Quote I tell people to do what I did-buy 1.0 and eat your way to 1.3 I'm dieting my way to 1.0 again, Right now I'm 1.3 on my Stiletto 150. I'm old school again. I think in a few years i will upsize to a crossfire 2 109 Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #30 October 7, 2007 Quote I think in a few years i will upsize to a crossfire 2 109 Don't do that. You'll get bored. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #31 October 8, 2007 Quote Quote I think in a few years i will upsize to a crossfire 2 109 Don't do that. You'll get bored. truthfully here is what I tell the students that I deal with... "Put your hand on my ankle" then I move my foot they get this disgusted look on their faces then I say "you have the rest of your life to skydive" So not all of us say these things Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
