javiaven 0 #26 April 29, 2012 Quote Hi Peter, Quote The OP should try to find out who does live at the address the canopy was sent. I could not disagree more. It is NOT the responsibility of the OP. This is the ongoing problem everywhere. The people who made the mistake want to put the responsibility/problem onto the customer. What a great business plan. I sold my very first piece of parachute equipment back in 1965 & have been selling off/on ever since. The thing that works and that people can live with is communication. If it is going to be late: Let the customer know. If there is a color no longer available: Let the customer know. Some of my dealers think I am nuts with all of my emails about every little detail; but it prevents mistakes ( mostly ), and saves both of us time & money ( hopefully ). Communicate - communicate - communicate. Just my $0.02, for what it is worth. JerryBaumchen Thanks Jerry, precisely. Had I known they would not be available, I wouldn't have minded waiting. Hell, I still have my own canopy, I don't mind waiting for another month. And once all this happened, I actually did not get mad at them: I understand these things may happen. The one thing that just bothers me to no end has been the absolute lack of information. After having posted this here today, and on my Facebook, their Facebook, Twitter, and more emails, I did get an email from the girl at Eloy saying she is very sorry BUT she is at her 4-way camp, so I should call the factory in New Zealand to figure out what is going on, since they are now underhanded (bear with me: in order to reach them during NZ working hours, I have to call at 3am local time). And, of course, the international call is on me! Again, I feel like shit for posting this here, and I'm sure they are awesome people once you get to know them. But I definitely won't be doing any more business with them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
catfishhunter 2 #27 April 30, 2012 Don't feel sorry. As someone that ships hundreds of packages a month I can assure you it takes 1 phone call to fix soemthing like this but it should have happened immediatly. I am surprised the people that received your package haven't sent it back to fed-ex. Usually if an address is in your system it is a previous customer. MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
strop45 0 #28 April 30, 2012 QuoteI should call the factory in New Zealand to figure out what is going on, since they are now underhanded (bear with me: in order to reach them during NZ working hours, I have to call at 3am local time). And, of course, the international call is on me! No question you have received shit service, but complaining because its an international call and in a different time zone - really??? Where was NZA located when you decided to give them the business? Also you don't have to ring at 3am? Usually either the end of your day or first thing in the morning will work with business hours in New Zealand. Hopefully someone from NZA will sort this out for you soon. The people from NZA are all great people, apparently they are just poorly organised and crap at business !!The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." -- Albert Einstein Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pantanal 0 #29 April 30, 2012 Hello Javien, I work with NZ for quiet some time now and I´m sure they will strait it out for you,not to worry on this. Gui D31713prego Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #30 April 30, 2012 Quote That would be Icarus, who are unfortunately not the same company as NZA, although they manufacture a lot of the same canopy designs under license (plus at least one more). Not exactly True! Paul Martin, AKA Jyro, started NZ Aerosports in NZ. Jyro developed some pretty good canopies and later wanted to market them worldwide by using exsisting factories to manufacture them. "Icarus" was/is the design's brand name and was/is manufactured by NZ Aeosports in NZ, Precision in the USA, and CIMSA in Spain. Precision later fell out of producing the Icarus brand and started producing a somewhat similar line of canopies like the Kaos, etc.... If you buy a Icarus canopy (with the exception of the Neos), you are buying a Paul Martin designed canopy. The only difference is just where it was manufactured! The Neos was developed by CIMSA (which just happens to be the largest parachute manufacturer in the world...mostly military though) and was labeled under the Icarus name. Rumor has it, that by doing so, it caused some friction amongst the ranks that was later resolved. Cheers, MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EppyNephrine 0 #31 May 1, 2012 I used to be an Icarus (NZ) fanatic. Loved the JVX. However, I switched to PD simply because the customer service at NZ Aerosports is horrible. Sucks because the JVX suits me better than the Velo. But the customer service aspect is a pretty big deal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #32 May 1, 2012 Interesting. Now we have a second person saying the customer service sucks. The skydiving community is extremely small. Businesses cannot afford to get a bad rep.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #33 May 1, 2012 QuoteInteresting. Now we have a second person saying the customer service sucks. The skydiving community is extremely small. Businesses cannot afford to get a bad rep. I think that they'll survive thisYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Joellercoaster 6 #34 May 1, 2012 Quote Not exactly True! Thanks for the correction... I was on the right track but not precisely there Quote If you buy a Icarus canopy (with the exception of the Neos), you are buying a Paul Martin designed canopy. The only difference is just where it was manufactured! And the difference in manufacturing locations is enough for some people to want to buy the Kiwi versions, even though they cost more. Included in this list is a guy I know with a Crossfire in each of his rigs, one from each factory, both bought new, and he seems pretty vocal about his preference. (Obviously this is second-hand, I'm not an Icarus owner, though I am very likely to be at some point. They're great canopies.)-- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Decodiver 0 #35 May 1, 2012 QuoteInteresting. Now we have a second person saying the customer service sucks. The skydiving community is extremely small. Businesses cannot afford to get a bad rep. The OP has not had good service that is clear from what they relate. I am on my 7th and 8th canopies from NZ Aerosports and their customer service in relation to me has been nothing less than exemplary. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dean358 0 #36 May 1, 2012 Quote QuoteThe OP should try to find out who does live at the address the canopy was sent. I could not disagree more. It is NOT the responsibility of the OP. This is the ongoing problem everywhere. The people who made the mistake want to put the responsibility/problem onto the customer. What a great business plan. +10000 Unbelievable. Even if what the OP has said isn't accurate -- which I have no reason to suspect is the case -- then "sorry, we're off playing so we can't help you" is the worst excuse I've ever heard for not helping a customer. In any case, I'm not sure how things work in Europe but in the USA protecting customers from these types of biz practices is one of the key services the credit card companies provide. I had a similar problem to this once from a furniture manufacturer. As I had paid for the items with my American Express card I called up Amex and they credited my account on the spot. Amex then refused to pay the vendor until I was satisfied with the result. This is a good reason to always use a credit card -- not a debit card -- for on-line or remote purchases.www.wci.nyc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pms07 3 #37 May 2, 2012 Quote Hi Peter, Quote The OP should try to find out who does live at the address the canopy was sent. I could not disagree more. It is NOT the responsibility of the OP. This is the ongoing problem everywhere. The people who made the mistake want to put the responsibility/problem onto the customer. What a great business plan. I sold my very first piece of parachute equipment back in 1965 & have been selling off/on ever since. The thing that works and that people can live with is communication. If it is going to be late: Let the customer know. If there is a color no longer available: Let the customer know. Some of my dealers think I am nuts with all of my emails about every little detail; but it prevents mistakes ( mostly ), and saves both of us time & money ( hopefully ). Communicate - communicate - communicate. Just my $0.02, for what it is worth. JerryBaumchen Jerry nailed it in regards to customer service and communication. You can buy skydiving stuff from hundreds of sources but your best bet is to stick with those that have a proven track record of good customer service. I'm a faithful customer of places like Rigging Innovations, PD, Square1 and Chuting Star because they deliver, stay in touch and care about the customer. "I'm on vacation but will get back with you in a few weeks" is not a satisfactory response in today's business environment, especially given the widespread availability of high-speed internet,cellular comms, etc.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bofh 0 #38 May 2, 2012 Quote If you buy a Icarus canopy (with the exception of the Neos), you are buying a Paul Martin designed canopy. The only difference is just where it was manufactured! Isn't Icarus Reserve also designed by CIMSA? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #39 May 2, 2012 Quote Isn't Icarus Reserve also designed by CIMSA? Not Really. It is basically an exact copy of a PD reserve with the exception of the stabilizers the much needed, coated 725lb Spectra line. It is BTW, only manufactured at the CIMSA plant as they already had a QA program in place there. MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #41 May 2, 2012 QuoteQuote Isn't Icarus Reserve also designed by CIMSA? Not Really. It is basically an exact copy of a PD reserve with the exception of the stabilizers the much needed, coated 725lb Spectra line. It is BTW, only manufactured at the CIMSA plant as they already had a QA program in place there. MEL Hey MEL, you raised my eyebrow with this one. Both in private conversation and at PIA, it seems most everyone feels that coated Spectra is much more prone to tension knots and that's why (PD, for example) builds reserves with uncoated microline. Is there some data or information that would support the 'much needed coating' preference? Second, are you suggesting that NZAerosports doesn't have a QC/QA program? I don't jump their canopies, but I have spent quite a bit of time in their booths at PIA and other events interviewing them, and it seems they've got a very solid process. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bofh 0 #42 May 3, 2012 Quote Second, are you suggesting that NZAerosports doesn't have a QC/QA program? A friend got a JVX where they had forgot to cut the crossports on one chamber, so some things are lacking in their QA program if they have one. It made the openings a bit more interesting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #43 May 3, 2012 Quote A friend got a JVX where they had forgot to cut the crossports on one chamber, so some things are lacking in their QA program if they have one. It made the openings a bit more interesting. have seen gear from major manufacturers with holes+grommets missing (which makes the closing of the reserve tray interesting), inverted legstrap hardware (which would have made interesting openings too) etc etc etc... Has the JVX been inspected by the user/the person who put the canopy in service prior to use ? scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #44 May 3, 2012 QuoteQuote Second, are you suggesting that NZAerosports doesn't have a QC/QA program? A friend got a JVX where they had forgot to cut the crossports on one chamber, so some things are lacking in their QA program if they have one. It made the openings a bit more interesting. Sounds like it wasn't inspected properly when it was received. All manufacturers make occasional mistakes. It pays to inspect before jumping.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BETO74 0 #45 May 3, 2012 QuoteSounds like a very Mickey Mouse company. "Sorry we're all away right now, we'll get back to you when we have finished having our jollies around the world". Can you imagine PD or L&B or Sunpath behaving like this? I don't think so. I love Icarus canopies had a few myself for a while, but this is why I switch to PD anothe long while ago, now just try to get any of their canopies re-lined! I waited 6 months at one point a few years back. They got to get their shit together because they have an awesome product in my opinionhttp://web.mac.com/ac057a/iWeb/AC057A/H0M3.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
javiaven 0 #47 May 3, 2012 Quote Any updates????? Yes, in fact. They gave me sincere apologies, have tracked down and are express sending me the canopy, and are offering any compensation needed. I get lots of input from many friends saying they had great experience with them, so I hope this doesn't happen again, as I'm sure it's just been a lot of little problems building upon each other. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 855 #48 May 3, 2012 Thanks for giving them an honest chance, I knew Jyro would come through if he could. Good products, good people. Stupid humans make mistakes, glad they set it right. Enjoy your new canopy! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #49 May 3, 2012 Quote Isn't Icarus Reserve also designed by CIMSA? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Not Really. It is basically an exact copy of a PD reserve with the exception of the stabilizers the much needed, coated 725lb Spectra line. It is BTW, only manufactured at the CIMSA plant as they already had a QA program in place there. MEL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hey MEL, you raised my eyebrow with this one. Both in private conversation and at PIA, it seems most everyone feels that coated Spectra is much more prone to tension knots and that's why (PD, for example) builds reserves with uncoated microline. Is there some data or information that would support the 'much needed coating' preference? DSE, Well the data that you need can be found by asking any rigger who packs reserves with uncoated lines. The first thing will be that the uncoated line material is very prone to damage. It is hard to find a canopy that has been packed and used a few times that does not have frayed,fuzzy, velcro picked lines on it. Look at a canopy from the next reserve ride you see that has that type of material on it. Line replacements are common if the rigger is really doing his/her job of inspecting the lines. Second , the theory of uncoated tension knots is actually the other way around. Any rigger will tell you that coated lines will stow neater and cleaner than uncoated ones. So, neater,cleaner line stows should lead to better line deployments as most people would probably think. Also think through the process of uncoated lines getting hooked on the velcro during deployment. If just a couple are hung on the velcro and the rest are free to release! ...Well you can see the potential problem there. The one problem with coated lines is that many years ago , an AD was issued because the lines were stiff and hard after they had been packed for a while. We had to wash the lines on the canopy and then place the canopy back in service. The lines we use today have a synthetic coating that has not seen any issues with to date. Of note, just about 95% of all reserve manufacturers use the coated version today Quote Second, are you suggesting that NZAerosports doesn't have a QC/QA program? I don't jump their canopies, but I have spent quite a bit of time in their booths at PIA and other events interviewing them, and it seems they've got a very solid process. Negative! I was merely stating that they do not have an FAA or EU certified QA/QC program as of yet. They do in fact have an in-house QA program, just not one for certified, TSO canopies. CIMSA does.... Cheers, MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #50 May 3, 2012 QuoteWhat I don't understand: Why didn't FedEx offer to pick up the parcel and charge you for delivery to Spain? Unless the SHIPPER requests something like that... It is not going to happen. Imagine this: I knew you were getting a new canopy, so I called claiming to be you and asked it to be shipped instead to the vacant house down the street from me. If FedEx did that, then they would be responsible for the loss.... And that is not even taking the shipment out of the Country which requires a lot of customs paperwork (CI, SED if over 2.5k... etc)."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
