jraf 0 #26 April 25, 2003 I totally agree with you. Tactfull and respectful are two words that in no way fit to my description. Doing bad things because your country tells you to do it is neither good nor honorable. And I wish to remind you that the country also consists of people who disagree. In other words it's doing awful things cause the Generals think it's OK. The government very often is never informed of them till the next press scandal. The question of conscientious objectors comes to mind. How do you refuse an order you disagree with? Then again if it is against your beliefs, how can you carry it out? (I think calling me a traitor might get me a bit upset...not a good idea)jraf Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui. Muff #3275 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #27 April 25, 2003 I forgot about that! You're right - even morons can do some good sometime. Moron might not be the correct term. Misguided soul with a proclivity for undertaking legal actions for causes/persons with no rationale might be a better adjective phrase for him....I dunno. Thanks Mark! I HAD forgotten about the Branch Davidians. fruit rollups, Vinny Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #28 April 25, 2003 Bill, I believe the difference here is that people who listen to rush and Howard tune in specifically for the purpose of hearing them run their mouth. That is especially the case with Rush and all the other political-based talkshows/lecturers. People there to watch a political lecture in person would likely get just as bent as I am on this matter if that person were to pick up a harmonica and start playing some corn pone in the middle of his speech. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #29 April 25, 2003 I agree. I these folks are invited somewhere to give their thoughts on politics, that's fine, they can give what ever thoughts they want, and I can choose to go or not go... But if they are invited someplace to give their thoughts on, say baseball, to recieve an award, or to sing a song, thats all they should speak about, out of respect for their hosts, if not the audiance... If they want to speak out, they need to go to a rally, or do it in private... and maybe even come up with articulate argument of their own... only very small people bash one persons position without having their own. JoshAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,073 #30 April 25, 2003 >Spouting a bunch of shit on stage "just because you have a captive > audience" is horse-shit. Shut up and sing, biotch. One could say the same thing about all the entertainers who say "we support our troops" on stage - and there are a lot more of them than there are dixie chick types. Both have the right to say what they want to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ERICCONNELLY 0 #31 April 25, 2003 ...as has been said before, THE BILL OF RIGHTS unfortunately, there are a lot of people who Quotespout your, sometimes skewed or flawed, opinion on a variety of topics. It's your job as a intelligent being to sort out the nonsense. Just as unfortunate most people are too damn lazy to do this and just listen to what they want to hear and try to block out anything that upsets their world view. My 2 cents Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jraf 0 #32 April 25, 2003 Quote Michael, you've hit upon a good point. It always amazes me that many leftists cower under the 'I was exercising my freedom of speech' mantra whenever someone else exercises their own freedom of speech to criticize them. It seems these loud mouths on the left are so arrogant and self righteous that they can't fathom that the other person has a problem with their actions/statements/opinions. They therefore incorrectly conclude that the person has a problem with Freedom of Speech. egg rolls, Vinny I think you can hardly call me a leftist. Most people here think I am a NaziLiberty has nothing to do with leftism. What is leftist nowdays anyway? Freedom and liberty has only one meaning. Remember that there is only a thin wall between the extreme left and the extreme right. You may disagree with poeple, you ma oppose their views, but statements like "shut up and sing"? a) very primitive b) extremely against the freedom of speach In conclusion, having seen it myself I could call people who say that Communists. Or Nazis. Take your pick, both are equally bad in my book.jraf Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui. Muff #3275 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,073 #33 April 25, 2003 >Bill, I believe the difference here is that people who listen to rush > and Howard tune in specifically for the purpose of hearing them run > their mouth. True, and I guess what will happen now is that people will know that the DC's often run their mouths too. If that means no one goes to their concerts any more, they'll fade away into oblivion and no one will hear their message anyway. It's their careers to destroy if that's what they want to do. And if they do destroy their careers? Hey, I'll still have more respect for them than for the left-wingers who vandalize stores, or the right-wingers that beat the crap out of protesters because they disagree with them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #34 April 25, 2003 Then stay home and buy the album. The reason I see live bands is because it will be different from their pre-recorded product. Whether that's a difference in the music itself, or their stage production, or them actually *gasp* talking to the crowd. I'd rather here a 15 word quip about someone's politics at a concert than have them say the name of the city they're in (that they only know because it's written on a cue card taped to the stage) so everyone can cheer..."Yeah...they said the name of the place where we live". It's not like they went on some long diatribe...it was one freakin' sentence. Now Eddie Vetter on the other hand, needs to shut the f up Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,544 #35 April 25, 2003 Quote>Spouting a bunch of shit on stage "just because you have a captive > audience" is horse-shit. Shut up and sing, biotch. One could say the same thing about all the entertainers who say "we support our troops" on stage Ayup. Got it in one. Freedom of speech (note that doesn't include punching someone as self-expression) is exactly that. Manners or fear of reprisal is what makes you moderate the way you express your opinions. Using fear as a means to control speech says more about the user than the speaker. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #36 April 25, 2003 I totally agree with you. Tactfull and respectful are two words that in no way fit to my description (I think calling me a traitor might get me a bit upset...not a good idea)*** As to the first statement, you're PROUD of this??? And as to the second, your statement sounds a wee bit like a vailed threat... what's up with that? Jeez... -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jraf 0 #37 April 25, 2003 Nope, not a threat. No need. I just think it is a bad idea to call anybody a traitor if you don't have evidence of trason as described by law. It just is a very serious accusation and people might seriously ask to have it substantiated.jraf Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui. Muff #3275 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #38 April 25, 2003 OK Jraf. Time to come back to reality dude. I wasn't referring to you cowering behind the FOS mantra - I was referring to the Dixie Twits, Eddie Vedder, Tim Robbins, Susan Sarandon, et al. Not sure how you thought I was referring to you from the context of my post, but I was not doing so. I don't read a lot of your stuff being here only for a short time, but from what I've read I can't accurately say you're a Nazi. A bit deranged, perhaps.Saying 'shut up and sing' isn't indicative of one holding to Marxist/Leninist tenets, nor those of the goose-steppers in the Nazi party. Stating that such a remark is against FOS is an untenable position as well. Furthermore, your remark about a 'fine line' separating the far left & far right has about as much factual basis as Clinton giving and abstinence seminar. They are about as close as we are to Pluto. Same solar system - different orbits. Nazi's and Commies hold beliefs more akin to the left - socialized medicine, state run economy, price controls, etc - than they do with conservatives, who seem to be doing the most Hollywonk booing and bashing. I stand by my previous posting. beers to all, Vinny the Anvil Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,073 #39 April 25, 2003 >There's a wierd vibe going on in this country right now. Yep. A quote from Bruce Springsteen that I think sums it up: ------------------------ The Dixie Chicks have taken a big hit lately for exercising their basic right to express themselves. To me, they're terrific American artists expressing American values by using their American right to free speech. For them to be banished wholesale from radio stations, and even entire radio networks, for speaking out is un-American. The pressure coming from the government and big business to enforce conformity of thought concerning the war and politics goes against everything that this country is about - namely freedom. Right now, we are supposedly fighting to create freedom in Iraq, at the same time that some are trying to intimidate and punish people for using that same freedom here at home. I don't know what happens next, but I do want to add my voice to those who think that the Dixie Chicks are getting a raw deal, and an un-American one to boot. I send them my support. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #40 April 25, 2003 I didn't call you a traitor, so why are you bringing this up? -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #41 April 25, 2003 I think the Dixie Chicks are getting everything they deserve. The general public and the people who own the radio stations and record stores are also free to express their opinion. Just like the signs at restaurants which state "we retain the right to refuse service for any reason", those stations are in no way required to play or sell records from artists who they dislike for any reason. Hey, if you really want to listen to them, then go buy a CD at their concert. Once again, just my (very popular, it seems) opinion. If that band is concerned about their record sales or radio play, then they need to figure out what is and is not acceptable in the general public's eye. Piss enough people off and you will find out rather quickly how short-lived your star power can last. I think it's plenty fair. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #42 April 25, 2003 Here Here! Sums it up perfectly I think... -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #43 April 25, 2003 Bill, you're missing it dude. I challenge you to give me ONE example of any government entity punishing someone for exercising their right to free speech. One person fined, imprisoned, or otherwise punished for exercising their freedom of the press. It's not the government nor is it corporations 'punishing' these nit-wits. It's the American public exercising THEIR freedom to NOT WATCH, LISTEN TO, or in ANY way support those whose beliefs they find repulsive. Kind of like Vietnam vets refusing to let their kids watch that Fonda moron. Corporations make their money off of the public. Corporations exist to make money. Therefore they CARE about what the public feels, and hire spokesmen/spokeswomen accordingly. That's capitalism at work dude. Not repression. hops, malt, and sugar, Vinny Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
misskriss 0 #44 April 25, 2003 I was bothered by what they said but not to the degree that I"ll stop listening to their music. The only problem I really have with them is that they sing about Vietnam and soldiers dying and then in the second breath say the things they said. Can't use both sides of the coin to appease both crowds... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,073 #45 April 25, 2003 >The general public and the people who own the radio stations and >record stores are also free to express their opinion. I think that's exactly right. Of course, any time someone censors a band, a singer, a book etc it becomes instantly popular; censorship is still a big deal in the US and people buy the record or book to see what the big deal is about. The stink that many are making about the dixie chicks is sending their message a lot further than it ever would have gotten on its own. Had everyone simply left their concerts in disgust, and stopped buying their records, there would be no prime time Dianne Sawyer interviews or long articles about their political views - and most people wouldn't even know their political stand. >Piss enough people off and you will find out rather quickly how short >lived your star power can last. Yep. In the end, how successful any singer is depends on how many people want to listen to him (or her.) If no one wants to hear her words or her music she will very quickly fade away. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JJohnson 0 #46 April 25, 2003 HERE HERE!!!! Could not have said it better and was trying until I read your post. We are a democracy...I have a right not to listen to something, look at something, to not pay for something.and if I am the owner of a business I have the right not to use something...like say I'm a radio station owner..I don't like you and I ain't playing your song.......I am simply making use of the same rights that enabled you to record it in the first place..... Then the fucking ACLU gets involved and sues me........JJ "Call me Darth Balls" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cgross 1 #47 April 25, 2003 I don't go to my Mechanic for advise on my Cancer, and I don't really want to go to my entertainers for poitical advise.... unless they are running for office!!! Spout off all you like dixie chicks... Do it in a foriegn country, and I will exercise my right to boycott you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jessica 0 #48 April 25, 2003 QuoteThe fat pig in the band and the mouse in her pocket? That woman is not fat. I probably weigh more than she does, and if you called me a fat pig, I would be very angry. Perhaps you are using the term "fat pig" metaphorically.Skydiving is for cool people only Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JJohnson 0 #49 April 25, 2003 I don't recall any Jarhead calling you a traitor......I called you potential scum...... What you are is a critical, cynical rabble rouser with no tact. And these appear to be your good points....by your own admission. By all means question the government. But do not slight the military for doing their job. Or call someone a Nazi or Weak-minded because they disagree with your line or method of questioning. If you want to question the government how about mandantory seat belts?? A little freedom robbing safety law? Or how about cameras in public places? Gun ownership cards? Your right to bear arms? Abortion issues? Things like this are where our government is whittling away our freedom. We were right and justified to go into Iraq. So how about showing some support for the people that fought the war?JJ "Call me Darth Balls" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DYEVOUT 0 #50 April 25, 2003 Quote I don't go to my Mechanic for advise on my Cancer Your mechanic is probably bright enough to know how little you value his medical opinion. He probably just does his job and STFU, the way he should. If your mechanic is a guy. ----------------=8^)---------------------- "I think that was the wrong tennis court." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
