Traitors vs. Patriots

[Zennie 0]

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Oh, and welcome back Zennie....

Good to be back, thanks!

And I just wouldn't be me if I wasn't stirring the pot a bit.

- Z
"Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

[bodypilot90 0]

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True, and I guess what will happen now is that people will know that the DC's often run their mouths too. If that means no one goes to their concerts any more, they'll fade away into oblivion and no one will hear their message anyway. It's their careers to destroy if that's what they want to do. And if they do destroy their careers?

But wait Bill how about Penn and the other idiots who are crying now because no one wants them in movies and such. I agree they have a right to say things and even the right to be stupid. But they seem to think the world owes them a living. I guess next they will ask for some tax payer assistance to support their lifestyle. Do I hear you agreeing that they are on their own, sink or swim so to speak.

[billvon 3,076]

>But wait Bill how about Penn and the other idiots who are crying
>now because no one wants them in movies and such.

Well, this is the US! They can cry as much as they want. Doesn't mean anyone will listen.

>Do I hear you agreeing that they are on their own, sink or swim so to speak.

Of course; like we all are. Still, I have a feeling they'll do OK. Even Jane Fonda made a lot of money, even after her Hanoi escapades. We seem to get outraged very easily, but don't often carry that outrage into action (like refusing to see a movie featuring an actor we despise, for example.)

[JJohnson 0]

Hey! Fat is fat, whatever the reason.........Not every pregnant woman I know put on 500 lbs....

JJ

"Call me Darth Balls"

[jraf 0]

Dude, I bet you are Mr. Gorgeous. Want to give me a call? I know this cool club in town.

jraf

Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui.
Muff #3275

[JJohnson 0]

>but we don't often carry that outrage into action<

Oh yeah we do. Americans are great action takers...even over-reaction takers......But we tend to have real short memories and move on to the next media fed outrage.......

JJ

"Call me Darth Balls"

[misskriss 0]

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Hey! Fat is fat, whatever the reason.........Not every pregnant woman I know put on 500 lbs....

[JJohnson 0]

WHAT????? I'm just saying.........

JJ

"Call me Darth Balls"

[billvon 3,076]

>Americans are great action takers...even over-reaction takers......

Well, I guess I can agree with that. We do seem to react in odd ways, though - boycott french wines to try to get back at Chirac?

>But we tend to have real short memories and move on to the next
>media fed outrage.......

Yep. I can remember when Bin Laden was public enemy #1. Now he's become an "oh yeah, did we find him yet?" In 10 years he will have faded into the background, a vauge sort of bogeyman like Castro that schoolkids have to study about and that most people simply ignore.

"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him."
- Bush, 9/13/01

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."
- Bush, 3/13/02

"I am truly not that concerned about him."
- Bush, 3/13/02

[redtwiga 0]

Speaking of Castro, look who's back in action...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-2602220,00.html

[JJohnson 0]

If any country ever fully realizes the way to defeat the U.S. is too sneak up on us.......by NOT pissing us off, NOT interrupting Monday Night Football, NOT stopping the flow of beer..........instead our enemies always seem to want to shock us by tweaking our nose.
The Japanese came damn close to buying most of the U.S....

so as a country we can be bought or rented but never conquered..what a great slogan.

JJ

"Call me Darth Balls"

[skydyvr 0]

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Really? Can you site one example of any action taken by the administration to uphold the right of US citizens to speak out against the war? I don't remember seeing them going out of their way to make sure protestors weren't hassled.

Kev, I don't understand. No "action" by the administration is needed to protect protestors from being hassled. The right to speak out is in place already, and the only protestors I've seen have trouble are the ones breaking laws.

I've heard of no federal effort to stifle lawful anti-war protest, have you?

OTOH, you can easily search through the speeches of Bush's cabinet and find plenty of precise intent to create and defend free speech here and abroad. This is the stuff to which I refer.

Why, just a few days ago Bush made remarks to reporters about how great it was that the Shiites were now able to speak out in protest, even though the protest was against himself, the US, and the war.

. . =(_8^(1)

[marcandalysse 0]

While I was at the gym last night I saw that CMT the cable country music tv network was showing a Dixie Chicks video, so they can't all be pissed off and censoring the band....

I haven't the patience to read all the posts in this thread, but regarding the discussions about what is a 'concentration camp'...

The asians I know refer to the "Internment Camps" (the USA term) where we put the WestCoast Japanese during WWII as "Concentration Camps". I tried to debate their use of the term, but gave up....

Marc

"The reason angels can fly is that they take themselves so lightly." --GK Chesterton

[skydyvr 0]

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Even Jane Fonda made a lot of money, even after her Hanoi escapades. We seem to get outraged very easily, but don't often carry that outrage into action (like refusing to see a movie featuring an actor we despise, for example.)

I don't boycott anyone in hollywood based on their politics, because if I did there would suddenly be a very limited choice of movies to watch!

I just separate the actor's political outlook from his/her talent level. It helps to understand that hollywood types are liberal largely because their brains operate with the "touchy feely" type of brain activity, rather than the "thinker" way of thought held by conservatives.

One way of thinking isn't necessarily better than the other, it's just the way it is, and I'm not giving up movie night over it.

. . =(_8^(1)

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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where exactly in the job description of "singer" or "entertainer" does it state that you have the right to spout your, sometimes skewed or flawed, opinion

It isn't a job title, its a right because they are American, they have this right just as much as anyone else. We have this forum to say what we want, they have a microphone. The medium may be different, but the idea is the same.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[PhillyKev 0]

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Kev, I don't understand. No "action" by the administration is needed to protect protestors from being hassled.

You said:

"Our current administration has done nothing but affirm and uphold the right of people to speak out against the war. There are plenty of examples of this in the public record. "

You're saying there are examples of public record of the administration upholding those rights. That implies some action was taken to defend those rights. So, what are those examples?

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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I think the Dixie Chicks are getting everything they deserve. Chuck

It almost feels like you are saying: Once you get fame, you no longer have the freedom to say anythign you want? Should your income be affected because of what you express on here, in the workplace, at the bar, etc?

True, you have the right to walk out of a concert, boycott etc - that is your right as well. But their freedom shouldn't be clip just because they have fame and make more money than most.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[skydyvr 0]

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You're saying there are examples of public record of the administration upholding those rights. That implies some action was taken to defend those rights. So, what are those examples?

I just clarified my statement by saying that Bush & Company verbally "affirm and uphold" free speech rights. Those affirmations are all over the record books. I didn't mean it any other way, sorry for the ambiguity in my writing.

. . =(_8^(1)

[PhillyKev 0]

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just clarified my statement by saying that Bush & Company verbally "affirm and uphold" free speech rights.

Understood....

I heard someone verbally affirm that the infidels have not reached Baghdad, not even within 100 miles. I don't believe that guy either.

[skydyvr 0]

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I heard someone verbally affirm that the infidels have not reached Baghdad, not even within 100 miles. I don't believe that guy either.

You mean the Wings didn't really defeat the infidels frm Anaheim?

. . =(_8^(1)

[billvon 3,076]

>I've heard of no federal effort to stifle lawful anti-war protest, have
>you?

The Bush administration supported NYC in denying a permit to demonstrate against the war with Iraq:
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There's a peace march scheduled in New York City today. But it will be more like a peace standstill. Unlike the 602 cities around the globe where protesters plan to march together to protest a war on Iraq, New York authorities won't allow it. . . .

The Bush administration - which is in the midst of trying to sell the war to the public - filed a brief urging the judges to uphold denial of the permit. And the Bloomberg administration has no intention of forcing a St. Patrick's Day standstill instead of a parade - even though it's bigger and likely more raucous.
-----------------------------

More here.

[skydyvr 0]

[replyThe Bush administration - which is in the midst of trying to sell the war to the public - filed a brief urging the judges to uphold denial of the permit.

[Beerlight 0]

Jraf, you kill me......Do you have anything positive to say about the U.S.??? Like, what a great military we have? Or, man they really conducted themselves well in Operation Iraqi Freedom. Or gosh, I'm behind those guys 100% and wish I could've been over there helping out? Or something freakin positive?!!

Dude, you must do a lot of solo jumps................

[jraf 0]

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Jraf, you kill me......Do you have anything positive to say about the U.S.??? Like, what a great military we have? Or, man they really conducted themselves well in Operation Iraqi Freedom. Or gosh, I'm behind those guys 100% and wish I could've been over there helping out? Or something freakin positive?!!

Dude, you must do a lot of solo jumps................

My dear little friend. Most things I have to say about our great country are VERY positive. We have the most efficient military machine in the world. The one eyed is the king of the blind in that capacity. Military and efficient mutually exclude each other just as in the very strange phrase"military intelligence".

I will not comment about the conduct in the operation someone for some unknown reason called Iraqui Freedom as it was a complete blunder. We will suffer the consequences in the future. The support of the freed locals is obvious from the demonstrations going on. One thing we definitely achieved is what the arabs could not for the last 100 years - we united the Shia and Sunni muslims.

Coming back to our country: We still have the biggest and most progressive economy in the world. We live in a gorgeous country and we do enjoy many freedoms. We have the best education system in the world (Yes we do - those who are willing can learn), we have the best medical system in the world and I could rant for hours and hours. Last but not least I live in the skydive Mecca of the world between ZHills, Deland and Sebastian and exactly 5 miles away from the wind tunnel.

As to my jumps - I jump at ZHill, have plenty of friends to jump with as in ZHills we have already solved the problem and we take our heads out of our asses before we speak! Shalom!

jraf

Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui.
Muff #3275

[WeakMindedFool 0]

Then don't go to the show! Don't buy the CD. Music has ALWAYS been about politics, especially rock/blues and even country. Whip out some of those old records you have, read the lyrics and pause and reflect.
Peace

Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves.
-Eric Hoffer -
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