Longer risers coupled with longer brakes?

[hokierower 0]

As I was getting adjusted to a new canopy (Sabre2 150) this past weekend I was performing usual manuevers, i.e. toggle turns, toggle flare, riser turns, riser flare, almost stall on toggles, almost stall on risers, etc. and ran into an issue with my front riser turns where the instant I touch the fronts, the canopy bucks. Looked at the brake lines during the manuever and sure enough, there's barely any slack in them and I'm deflecting the tail as soon as I thick about my fronts

So in order to properly execute my eventual landing, I need to lengthen the brake lines (2-4"). Unfortunately, doing so will decrease the bottom end of the flare. To counter-act that, my initial thought is to get longer risers (currently using 20") so that the brakes can be longer but the bottom of the flare remains in the same point.

My question is what will this do to the canopy's characteristics. Searching through old threads I saw that increasing the riser length will increase the recovery arc, but is there something else that I need to be concerned with?

[erdnarob 1]

Hello,
About the risers length:

1) first of all you have to consider the length of your arms. Obviously, you need to be able to reach your toggles after your parachute is deployed. remember that after opening, your harness is up by few inches.

2) Increasing the risers length will give you a longer toggles range and therefore will allow you to brake deeper for a full flare.
You Sabre 2 has a long toggle range then it is compatible with longer risers.

(Warning, some parachute like the Safire has a short toggle range then if you put long risers on it, expect to get the stall point relatively early sometimes at chest level)

3) the proper steering line set up is when flying with toggles fully up (full speed) there is arch in the steering line (due to the relative wind) with an arrow of about 10-12 inches (deflection of the steering line) while a straight steering line means that the tail of your parachute is under tension then slighly on brakes.

I suggest you to see a rigger and discuss the issue.

Good luck and tell us when your modifications with satisfy you.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[5.samadhi 0]

can you stall the canopy with toggles all the way down? If you can then lengthening the brake lines won't matter...never need to stall the canopy on landing (believe me) so it wont take away from your "bottom end".

is your lineset fairly old???

[hokierower 0]

1. Arm length is not an issue.

2. Toggle range is not necessarily an issue unless I increase the brake lines, at which point I'll no longer be able to fully flare.

3. There is little if any deflection in the brake lines, i.e., the first couple of inches are not pulling the slack out of the lines, they're starting the flare.

4. Yes, I can stall the canopy with my arms fully extended and rolling the wrists to get the last little bit. I know that I'll never need to stall it, but knowing where I can get every inch of flare that I need is the goal.

5. No, lineset is probably mid-life, but I haven't measured trim on it.

[SethInMI 174]

Quote

My question is what will this do to the canopy's characteristics. Searching through old threads I saw that increasing the riser length will increase the recovery arc, but is there something else that I need to be concerned with?

If you saw someone say that increased riser length will cause an increased recovery arc, I bet you saw someone else call bullshit on being able to tell the difference.

Your A lines are about 120", plus 20" of riser and 20" of MLW so 160" from the seat of the harness to the canopy. If you change that by 4" or 2.5%, I don't think you would notice.

As an FYI, I flew a Sabre 2 150 with 24" risers loaded at about 1.3 and set up the brakes so that there were about 3-4" of slack takeup before the tail started to deflect, and it landed great, IMHO. I am 6'3" tall, but my arms are shorter than average for someone of my height.

I strongly suggest doing a trim check, just to see where you are. I recently got a Sabre 2 135, and found that it probably had more jumps than it was advertised, and so had about 3.5" of shrinkage in the brake lines. I had to let the brakes out by about 5" to get the canopy back to factory.

Seth

It's flare not flair, brakes not breaks, bridle not bridal, "could NOT care less" not "could care less".

[DaVinciflies 0]

My experience is that Sabre2 150's and 135's need 3-4" extra on the brakelines even with a new lineset for stable front riser use.