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Hey, Bo, I think Bill was being a bit sarchastic. His arguements have been taken from many of the "war" threads on here that I'm guessing you may not have really read. He's just throwing it back now. Very deftly I might add.
Jessica 0
QuoteVery deftly I might add.
Yes, I'm chortling. Not audibly, though -- the TSA might be listening.
Skydiving is for cool people only
Sorry - haven't been on dz.com as much as of late. Yup - missed that one! Thanks for the clarification Chris.
_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....
wmw999 2,460
I'm glad you were clearer -- obviously I didn't have the balls to post it quite like that.
(looks down, checks self -- oh 
I'm a girl! No balls needed 
. Whew!)
Wendy W.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)
I thought it was "I am a girl, balls needed, please apply at office (arrow pointing up)." 
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."
Quote>Is Mayor Daley a crazyman?
He's a leader elected by the people, doing his best to protect the people of the US against terrorism. I think it's time to stop all the anti-TSA whining and support the US instead of the terrorists. There is, after all, a war on terror - and you're either for it or against it. What, did you think that 'flight restrictions' would stop terrorists who want to destroy Chicago?
Meigs will be destroyed, and we will all sleep safer at night knowing that another terrorist opportunity has been removed.
(to borrow a common theme here . . .)
Trolling again bill?
Viking 0
Wow i remember flying out of that airport in the first version of Microsoft Flight sim when you had to run it off DOS and windows 95 wasn't even out yet! I think we were playing it on a old Zenith 8088 machine by dad got from a friend. LOL
I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver
My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin
My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin
How dare you criticize our government's war on terror! Would you rather just wait until the terrorists kill another 3000 people before you 'allow' the government to protect you? What will you tell the families of those people?
Besides, closing all the small airports in this country affects only pilots and skydivers, and they're a tiny percentage of the population. Who cares about their rights when there are people living in fear? Something must be done, even if it might be wrong!
Besides, closing all the small airports in this country affects only pilots and skydivers, and they're a tiny percentage of the population. Who cares about their rights when there are people living in fear? Something must be done, even if it might be wrong!
The war on terror works like this Bill, tons of bombs and destruction over there so we can enjoy aviation freedoms over here. Thats just business buddy. That mayor is suffering from the n.i.m.b.y. syndrome and not trying to protect us. Carefull your DZ otter skippers may just lynch you up if you keep talking this way. Glen
billvon 3,008
.thumb.jpg.4bb795e2eaf21b8b300039a5e1ec7f92.jpg)
> Trolling again bill?
Yep! I get a kick out of seeing some people try to refute some of the same arguments they've been using.
Yep! I get a kick out of seeing some people try to refute some of the same arguments they've been using.
FallRate 0
Greenies shouldn't troll.
FallRate
I don't know anything about the politics invilved in this decision, and I choose not to engage in that part of this thread.
I will say that I did two demo jump there in 1992 and I'm sorry to see it go. It was a thrill exiting way out over Lake Michigan, with Soldier Field in sight during free fall.
I was told by a local that Meigs was built on the rubble from the Chicago fire that happened in the mid-1800's.
It was always a special jump memory for me. ![[:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png "[:/]"){kind=small}
Arrive Safely
John
John
Tf15 0
QuoteI don't know anything about the politics invilved in this decision, and I choose not to engage in that part of this thread.
I will say that I did two demo jump there in 1992 and I'm sorry to see it go. It was a thrill exiting way out over Lake Michigan, with Soldier Field in sight during free fall.
I was told by a local that Meigs was built on the rubble from the Chicago fire that happened in the mid-1800's.
It was always a special jump memory for me.
The politics are simple - King Richard's wife, Queen Maggie, has wanted a park named after her for at least 10 years, and the Meigs site is the chosen spot. King Ritchie has tried several times to close Meigs (he even had it shut down for several months a couple of years ago) but the Governor of IL and business leaders managed to keep it open.
This time King Richie has resorted to Gestapo-like tactics and is likely to have succeeded. The "National Security" rationalization is purely bogus.
It's the kind of thing to be expected when a family starts to believe it has a divine right to rule.
I just wonder where he found city workers willing to work all night.
Three times is enemy action
kevin922 0
Quote>Ahh so lets destroy all the airports and go back to horse and buggy travel, right?
How dare you criticize our government's war on terror! They know things you don't, ya know. They could know that there are plans for terrorism that involve Meigs that you know _nothing_ about. Would you rather just wait until the terrorists kill another 3000 people before you 'allow' the government to protect you? What will you tell the families of those people?
Besides, closing all the small airports in this country affects only pilots and skydivers, and they're a tiny percentage of the population. Who cares about their rights when there are people living in fear? Something must be done, even if it might be wrong!
Who said I was criticizing our government? I was simply going along with quade's line of thought and guessing what the next, obviously logical, step in fighting terrorism would be. History repeats itself right? Looks like things were much safer in the past why not revert back to that type of travel.
Cajun 0
Quote
How dare you criticize our government's war on terror!
Is it just me or does this remind anyone of McCarthyism (sp?) That's what really scares me.
Craig 0
From the Chicago Tribune:
(sorry, no link, found it on rec.aviation.piloting)
The following is an edited transcript of Richard M. Daley's news conference
with reporters Monday on the closure of Meigs Field.
"As most of you know by now, we have closed Meigs Field.
"We have done this to protect the millions of people who live, work and
visit our downtown Chicago in these very uncertain times.
"Nine days ago, as you know, we announced that the FAA and the Homeland
Security Department had approved our request for a temporary flight
restriction over the greater downtown area.
"We are grateful to those agencies for approving the restriction, but it is
simply not enough to ensure an appropriate level of safety and security to
the people of Chicago.
"First of all, a temporary flight restriction is just that: A temporary. It
could be lifted at any time, without the approval of the mayor, the City
Council or the people of Chicago.
"More important, it does not address the problem that occurs every day as
the aircraft approaches Meigs Field, within a few hundred yards--and only a
few seconds flight time--of our tallest buildings.
"And not just our tallest buildings, but the hundreds of thousands of people
who attend not only the Taste of Chicago and the Grant Park concerts, our
museum park, Navy Pier, our water filtration plant, who will be using our
beaches and visiting our museums.
"Those airplanes appear to be going to Meigs, but with a sudden turn they
could cause a terrible tragedy downtown or in our crowded parks.
"That scares me, and it scares people who live, work and visit downtown and
use our parks and work every day here in the City of Chicago. ...
"The closure of Meigs reduces our risk and the perception of risk, and it
will make Chicago a safer city and make us feel like a safer city.
"Why did we act so quickly? Because the fears exist right now.
"To do this any other way would have been needlessly contentious and
jeopardized public safety. ...
"I am not willing to wait for a tragedy--as some have asked me to do--to
happen here before making a very difficult and tough decision."
- - -
Reporter--Why did you do it the way you did it? In the middle of the night.
I mean, there are people saying it's not that you closed it, but the way you
did it.
Daley--We took appropriate steps to do it.
Reporter--Why do it in the middle of the night?
Daley--We made the decision and we did it for public safety.
Reporter--What about your agreement with the state ...
Daley--Had no agreement whatsoever.
Reporter--There is no agreement?
Daley--No. No.
- - -
Reporter--The Friends of Meigs says you did it like storm troopers.
Daley--No.
Reporter--There have been people on the radio calling in and saying the
manner in which it was done is dictatorial and it's like no public input and
as Friends of Meigs in their press release says, "storm troopers in the
middle of the night."
Daley--No.
Reporter--Why not?
Daley--Just not.
Reporter--Can't anybody explain why it was necessary
Daley--Necessary to basically close the airport, we believe, for public
safety and that's what I said.
- - -
Reporter--You had a political deal with former Gov. George Ryan.
Daley--Yeah.
Reporter--It didn't pass, but Gov. Ryan appeared to do everything he could
to pass it
Daley--I did too. I think I had a lot to do with it too.
Reporter--Your party controlled the United States Senate then ...
Daley--But I worked with Republicans as well, thank you.
Reporter--Does this hurt your credibility with other politicians who might
want to do a deal?
Daley--No. No.
Reporter--Why not?
Daley--It just won't.
Reporter--Didn't welsh?
Daley--No, I didn't welsh. There's no agreement. There's no federal
legislation.
- - -
Reporter--Why did you wait until now to do this? Did you wait until you
determined through research that you had the legal authority ...
Daley--No. I think just the whole debate about the flight
restriction--temporary flight restriction. How difficult that was, how hard
it was to get as compared to Mickey and Minnie getting it.
Reporter--But you won that battle ...
Daley--No. No. We did not win it in the sense that Mickey and Minnie got it
before us.
Reporter--But once you got it, why were you still determined to go the extra
...
Daley--Overall, when you talk about the safety of the buildings, our
downtown, the safety of people working, the safety of people living, the
concern that we have today is a valid concern.
Reporter--Do you feel a government that put Disney World above the City of
Chicago ...
Daley--I think that was a mistake, yes.
Reporter--And you felt you had to do this unilaterally because the Congress
and the White House weren't going to do enough for you?
Daley--Well, again, they have to understand when we talk about homeland
security, it's not just in Washington, D.C. It's basically in America.
- - -
Reporter--What about the argument that with the Meigs tower manned, the
airspace was actually safer than it will be now with no one.
Daley--No. They have no firepower.
Reporter--But they could certainly notify people.
Daley--No firepower. They have no firepower.
- - -
Reporter--Is it fair to say that if you had done it in an orderly fashion
with a press release you would have opened the door for weeks or months of
litigation and that would have basically not solved the problem?
Daley--You could answer your own question. You could answer your own
question. You could answer your own question. I'm not going to answer that.
- - -
Reporter--Mayor, are you confident that the vast majority of residents will
initially support this?
Daley--Well, again, when you talk about public safety, the fear that people
have, yes. We have the largest concentration of high-rise buildings in North
America. We're very proud of that. We keep expanding that, as you know. And
that's the safety, first and foremost.
Reporter--Did you consult any of the aldermen?
Daley--No, not yet.
- - -
Reporter--Doesn't good government function best in the light of day?
Daley--Yes.
Reporter--What would have been the problem ...
Daley--That's why I'm here today. That's why I'm here today.
Reporter--What would have been the problem ...
Daley--We think it was appropriate dealing with public safety.
- - -
Reporter--Mr. Mayor, will you recommend that the Park District make this a
park?
Daley--That will be up to them. That will be up to them.
(sorry, no link, found it on rec.aviation.piloting)
The following is an edited transcript of Richard M. Daley's news conference
with reporters Monday on the closure of Meigs Field.
"As most of you know by now, we have closed Meigs Field.
"We have done this to protect the millions of people who live, work and
visit our downtown Chicago in these very uncertain times.
"Nine days ago, as you know, we announced that the FAA and the Homeland
Security Department had approved our request for a temporary flight
restriction over the greater downtown area.
"We are grateful to those agencies for approving the restriction, but it is
simply not enough to ensure an appropriate level of safety and security to
the people of Chicago.
"First of all, a temporary flight restriction is just that: A temporary. It
could be lifted at any time, without the approval of the mayor, the City
Council or the people of Chicago.
"More important, it does not address the problem that occurs every day as
the aircraft approaches Meigs Field, within a few hundred yards--and only a
few seconds flight time--of our tallest buildings.
"And not just our tallest buildings, but the hundreds of thousands of people
who attend not only the Taste of Chicago and the Grant Park concerts, our
museum park, Navy Pier, our water filtration plant, who will be using our
beaches and visiting our museums.
"Those airplanes appear to be going to Meigs, but with a sudden turn they
could cause a terrible tragedy downtown or in our crowded parks.
"That scares me, and it scares people who live, work and visit downtown and
use our parks and work every day here in the City of Chicago. ...
"The closure of Meigs reduces our risk and the perception of risk, and it
will make Chicago a safer city and make us feel like a safer city.
"Why did we act so quickly? Because the fears exist right now.
"To do this any other way would have been needlessly contentious and
jeopardized public safety. ...
"I am not willing to wait for a tragedy--as some have asked me to do--to
happen here before making a very difficult and tough decision."
- - -
Reporter--Why did you do it the way you did it? In the middle of the night.
I mean, there are people saying it's not that you closed it, but the way you
did it.
Daley--We took appropriate steps to do it.
Reporter--Why do it in the middle of the night?
Daley--We made the decision and we did it for public safety.
Reporter--What about your agreement with the state ...
Daley--Had no agreement whatsoever.
Reporter--There is no agreement?
Daley--No. No.
- - -
Reporter--The Friends of Meigs says you did it like storm troopers.
Daley--No.
Reporter--There have been people on the radio calling in and saying the
manner in which it was done is dictatorial and it's like no public input and
as Friends of Meigs in their press release says, "storm troopers in the
middle of the night."
Daley--No.
Reporter--Why not?
Daley--Just not.
Reporter--Can't anybody explain why it was necessary
Daley--Necessary to basically close the airport, we believe, for public
safety and that's what I said.
- - -
Reporter--You had a political deal with former Gov. George Ryan.
Daley--Yeah.
Reporter--It didn't pass, but Gov. Ryan appeared to do everything he could
to pass it
Daley--I did too. I think I had a lot to do with it too.
Reporter--Your party controlled the United States Senate then ...
Daley--But I worked with Republicans as well, thank you.
Reporter--Does this hurt your credibility with other politicians who might
want to do a deal?
Daley--No. No.
Reporter--Why not?
Daley--It just won't.
Reporter--Didn't welsh?
Daley--No, I didn't welsh. There's no agreement. There's no federal
legislation.
- - -
Reporter--Why did you wait until now to do this? Did you wait until you
determined through research that you had the legal authority ...
Daley--No. I think just the whole debate about the flight
restriction--temporary flight restriction. How difficult that was, how hard
it was to get as compared to Mickey and Minnie getting it.
Reporter--But you won that battle ...
Daley--No. No. We did not win it in the sense that Mickey and Minnie got it
before us.
Reporter--But once you got it, why were you still determined to go the extra
...
Daley--Overall, when you talk about the safety of the buildings, our
downtown, the safety of people working, the safety of people living, the
concern that we have today is a valid concern.
Reporter--Do you feel a government that put Disney World above the City of
Chicago ...
Daley--I think that was a mistake, yes.
Reporter--And you felt you had to do this unilaterally because the Congress
and the White House weren't going to do enough for you?
Daley--Well, again, they have to understand when we talk about homeland
security, it's not just in Washington, D.C. It's basically in America.
- - -
Reporter--What about the argument that with the Meigs tower manned, the
airspace was actually safer than it will be now with no one.
Daley--No. They have no firepower.
Reporter--But they could certainly notify people.
Daley--No firepower. They have no firepower.
- - -
Reporter--Is it fair to say that if you had done it in an orderly fashion
with a press release you would have opened the door for weeks or months of
litigation and that would have basically not solved the problem?
Daley--You could answer your own question. You could answer your own
question. You could answer your own question. I'm not going to answer that.
- - -
Reporter--Mayor, are you confident that the vast majority of residents will
initially support this?
Daley--Well, again, when you talk about public safety, the fear that people
have, yes. We have the largest concentration of high-rise buildings in North
America. We're very proud of that. We keep expanding that, as you know. And
that's the safety, first and foremost.
Reporter--Did you consult any of the aldermen?
Daley--No, not yet.
- - -
Reporter--Doesn't good government function best in the light of day?
Daley--Yes.
Reporter--What would have been the problem ...
Daley--That's why I'm here today. That's why I'm here today.
Reporter--What would have been the problem ...
Daley--We think it was appropriate dealing with public safety.
- - -
Reporter--Mr. Mayor, will you recommend that the Park District make this a
park?
Daley--That will be up to them. That will be up to them.
Saying that tearing up Meigs Field to prevent terroism makes as much sense as tearing down a school because there may be a pediphile in the area. (Maybe Daley will start that policy next week)
Daley finally got the TFR over the city - but a good portion of Ohare traffic flies directly over downtown for final approach. It took Daley almost a week of public media bashing to get the TFR, I doubt they will be sending AWACs our way anytime soon.
Also, as Chris pointed out - no more tower looking over the city. Nor, is there a support infrastructure for emergency vehicles (lifeflight). And the airport was also used as a staging ground for airborne construction projects in recent years. This is a HUGE hit to the already failing Chicago economy. For those that are not from the area - within a 5 minute walk from the airport is the largest convention center in the country - and a good amount of convention traffic arrived via Meigs field. If you check out http://friendsofmeigs.org/ you will find several articles that talk about how the airport helped with public safety, and how it increased safety with VFR traffic.
If you lived in Chicago, you would understand just how much BS this whole thing is. For years the Mayor has been trying to make the entire lakefront a park - this includes Meigs. The Govenor and the Mayor had a very vocal and media driven fued over this. Acting this way at 1am is a thug/goon tactic.
I am all for making this country safe - but not at the expense of everything that makes America as great as it is. It seems that certain people, legislature, and organizations are hell-bent to start up a police state to enforce safety.
Daley has lost my vote.
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....
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