rhino 0 #26 March 20, 2003 QuoteThe students in Tiananmen square that were killed were all idiots then or were they standing up for their beliefs and were killed for them Were they told they would be shot for being there? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #27 March 20, 2003 QuoteNo, he runs into a crossfire because he's ordered to. Not to save anyone. Not to draw fire. Not because he thinks that's where safety is. He's ordered to advance and he does. Is he an idiot? Does your example apply to this situation? Are you suggesting that Rachel Corrie was ordered to stand in front of the bulldozer? Are you suggesting that Rachel Corrie had a sworn oath to carry out such an order? - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Schroeder 0 #28 March 20, 2003 was she told she would be killed? No. Few people look at a bulldozer and consider it crushing them, compared to the people who look at a rifle and imagine being shot by it. She was stepping backwards and fell. It ran her over. Do I respect her, yes, this had a component of accident to it, but it wasn't completely. To call her an idiot.... jesus. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #29 March 20, 2003 Jimbo makes a valid point.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #30 March 20, 2003 HUMAN SHIELD code named HERE IS YOUR SIGN!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Schroeder 0 #31 March 20, 2003 Hey rhino, mind if I ask the origin of your new catchy "Here's your sign" bit? Am I recalling correctly that it was some comedians material, but, how did it go? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #32 March 20, 2003 Apparently you know the origin.. Everyone does...JEff Foxworthy I think.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
misskriss 0 #33 March 20, 2003 I do have to say, Rhino... She believed in her cause the same way you believe in the United States of America. You are willing to die for what you believe in and she died for what she believed in. I don't think that makes her stupid. I think that makes her passionate....we all have things that we are passionate about....our families, our country, our religion...etc. Some go the distance as do our soldiers on the front line and as this woman did. May she rest in Peace.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #34 March 20, 2003 Quotewas she told she would be killed? No. Few people look at a bulldozer and consider it crushing them, compared to the people who look at a rifle and imagine being shot by it. She was stepping backwards and fell. It ran her over. Do I respect her, yes, this had a component of accident to it, but it wasn't completely. To call her an idiot.... jesus. It's a bulldozer and it's probably got a top speed of what, 8MPH? I think she probably saw it coming. I also think that she probably had plenty of warning that it wasn't going to stop. To defend her.... Jesus. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Schroeder 0 #35 March 20, 2003 yeah, ok, foxworthy... lol, so this is pretty well the context right? http://www.stargazersrealm.com/MAIN/funnies/heresyoursign.html And..... So, you've called alot of people stupid lately haven't you? not only off-board people, but even on-board people. Nice, it takes some wit to find new ways to insult/attack people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #36 March 20, 2003 QuoteShe was stepping backwards and fell. It ran her over. Really? From http://www.npr.org/programs/atc/transcripts/2003/mar/030317.banse.html QuoteBANSE: Protesters from the group also have experience stopping bulldozers by sitting down in front of them. That's what Rachel Corrie tried to do yesterday, but this time the bulldozer did not stop. An Israeli army spokesman says the driver had trouble seeing and calls it a `regrettable accident,' but Corrie's group claims the action appeared deliberate. Doesn't matter. She should have known the thing was going to kill her, it's not as if she didn't have warning it wasn't going to stop."Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #37 March 20, 2003 >It's a bulldozer and it's probably got a top speed of what, 8MPH? Typically about 25 mph with an acceleration curve of about 2mph/ per second. It will easlly out run a person. Untill you've driven one you have no idea the power of one. you lose sight of everything about 20 feet infront of you and thats all of about a second out. (I miss playing with heavy tools)Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Schroeder 0 #38 March 20, 2003 Stand toe-to-bumper with a truck, trip backwards when it starts moving at 8mph, and then tell me how long it takes before your feet are under it. Plus those blades are wide, like 12-14 feet at least. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DYEVOUT 0 #39 March 20, 2003 Wow, There are actually people who think it is noble to allow a bulldozer to run oneself over - for ANY reason. Far out. ----------------=8^)---------------------- "I think that was the wrong tennis court." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #40 March 20, 2003 I didn't call her stupid I called her NUTS. Their is a difference in dying for something and dying needlessly for nothing. Live to fight another day I say. She made a decision. She knew the danger of her decision. The act was suicide it was her choice. She was willing to throw her life away to save a house because she felt her American passport gave her clout as a human shield. Human shields are essentially volunteering to commit suicide. THAT IS WHAT SHE DID. The Palestinians are paying their respects to her. She is more powerfull know that she is dead than when she was alive. Who knows. I have little respect for someone that dies needlessly like that. I have NOTHING but respect for a soldier that dies in combat or a firefighter that dies trying to save lives. To each his or her own... Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #41 March 20, 2003 QuoteThe act was suicide QuoteI have little respect for someone that dies needlessly like that. QuoteI have NOTHING but respect for a soldier that dies in combat or a firefighter that dies trying to save lives. Amen. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
misskriss 0 #42 March 20, 2003 hugs and kisses.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #43 March 20, 2003 QuoteUntill you've driven one you have no idea the power of one. you lose sight of everything about 20 feet infront of you and thats all of about a second out. (I miss playing with heavy tools) Precisely why she should have known better than to be there in the first place.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Schroeder 0 #45 March 20, 2003 http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03/16/rafah.death/index.html Hmm... cnn seems to be a little more in-depth: "She was raising her hands and yelling at the bulldozer driver to stop," Arraf said. "The bulldozer driver paid no attention. ... He buried Rachel with dirt, which ended up, obviously, knocking her down. Then he ran over her, and then reversed and ran over her again." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazerq3 0 #46 March 20, 2003 I have to agree with Rhino on this one to dye for saving someone or helping some one in need is one thing but to jsut stand there and die over some building or just because you feel the need to believe in it is another....Was she stupid?? No ..was her act of dieing over this stupid..YES...I mean hell I dont belive in people driving drunk but I'm not going stand infront of a drunk driver to prove my point!!... Like I said ina diff thread I'd do the same thing the driver did.... if you come to my house stand in my drive way and protest that I drive an SUV and dont want me to leave...guess what ...if I'm leaving then I'm leaving!!! If you want to stand there tell me what kind of undercairage (sp) I got then thats your stupidity!! jasonFreedom of speech includes volume Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevin922 0 #47 March 20, 2003 my god.. i never would have thought a post that i DELETED would get so many friggin replies... hell the ones I write that I leave there don't get this many unless of course they contain pictures of my now ex-girlfriend's boobies. I deleted the post because it was rather graphic, didn't pertain to skydiving, and I got my initial question of "was this for real" answered rather quickly. Yeah it's a public forum, yada yada.. and yeah I've seen much worse working on an ambulance but I figured it was better to just avoid a large argument by deleting it. Obviously that wasn't the case:) I think she is nuts... however mainly because I don't have the same feelings towards the situation as she did. It takes a lot to be willing to die for a cause... forinstance secret service are willing to take a bullet for the president in esence... are they stupid? I don't think so.. i'm sure she was intelligent as well however I think this whole situation is/was a little pointless. I don't agree with "tree huggers" trying to stop ships and everything else.. I think they are counterproductive to the nation's economy. If you want to stand out in front of the white house butt-ass nekkid with a sign then fine.. if you want to sit in your tractor in the middle of a lake, again -- fine, just don't say you have explosives thus fawking up traffic and productivity of our nation. People who are willing to die for their cause are not idiots.. but I find it very hard to believe it was worth it for this cause. Civil rights? yeah probably... houses on the gaza strip? probably not. Kevin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #48 March 20, 2003 QuoteNo ..was her act of dieing over this stupid..YES...I mean hell I dont belive in people driving drunk but I'm not going stand infront of a drunk driver to prove my point!!... Bwahahahahahahahahaha!! Amen brother.. Now that was good!! lol Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #49 March 20, 2003 >I have little respect for someone that dies needlessly like that. I have > NOTHING but respect for a soldier that dies in combat or a firefighter >that dies trying to save lives. I have respect for anyone who dies for what they believe in, whether they are soldiers, protesters or firefighters. You purposely jump a canopy that you know is dangerous; you have heard people tell you this and you know people die doing hook turns. You take that risk freely. If you die doing it I won't call you stupid or nuts, even though you knew you could die doing it. Your death wouldn't be noble or a senseless tragedy; you simply took a risk that you understood, for fun, and you paid the price. Everyone has the right to take that risk. Other people risk their lives for more noble things. I have respect for people who are willing to put their lives on the line for what they believe in even if I disagree with what they believe. Some of these people are soldiers, who may die for what is apparently no reason. Some of these people are protesters, who put their lives on the line for what they believe in. You may think this woman was stupid, but thousands of people are now discussing her and learning about what she stood for. She stood up for what she believed in, and now the whole world knows her name (and more importantly her cause.) I think that's far from stupid or pointless. Often, when people in that situation die for US causes, we call them heroes. I guess I was suprised that you wouldn't understand people willing to die for what they believe in. I think you'd be upset if someone claimed that a marine was nuts for dying for what they believed in, even if their action was "stupid" (i.e. walked straight into a hail of bullets.) Just so you know, other people feel as strongly about their beliefs as you feel about the marines - and they're not all nuts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #50 March 20, 2003 QuoteI guess I was suprised that you wouldn't understand people willing to die for what they believe in. Apparently you haven't heard a WORD I have said.. I'm done repeating myself.. Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
