skybytch 273 #101 March 20, 2003 Can we please take the semantics argument to PM's? My mouse is hovering over the lock button. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #102 March 20, 2003 Ummm... Boobies!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingferret 0 #103 March 20, 2003 I guess will throw my 2 cents in on this, not sure why. Personally, I think this tragic and I regret her death. I am glad the state department is asking for an investigation. So why are we arguing? the matter is being investigated. That being said: QuoteIn any case, the woman's friends and classmates say she was well aware she was getting into a dangerous situation. http://www.npr.org/programs/atc/transcripts/2003/mar/030317.banse.html Nothing in this world guarantees you safety, and this obviously was cause with some risk involved. At least some reports indicate that she lost her footing and disappeared from view. This one is most disturbing: QuoteWhen the bulldozer refused to stop or turn aside she climbed up onto the mound of dirt and rubble being gathered in front of it wearing a fluorescent jacket to look directly at the driver who kept on advancing. http://www.veteransforpeace.org/Statement_Rachel_Corrie_031703.htm If I was driving the bulldozer and she disappeared from view for some reason, would I have stopped? Probably. But we really dont know the situation here. Look at the pictures..there are other protests right next to her; do you think the driver was actively counting them and determining where they were? I really think this is hard to examine without more info, which we really are not getting in the new right now. Guys, face it, these kind of protest are stand-offs. A game of chicken with a multi ton piece of equipment and huge stakes. In reality these people intend to make it so difficult for the driver to continue safely that he must stop his job. If it became obvious the dozer was trying to proceed, would you really "climb[ed] up onto the mound of dirt and rubble being gathered in front of it"? Because I sure as hell would not. At sometime you have to able to walk away from a bluff. Once again, I think this is sad. And I do not even fault her for protesting. However, I do think that her last actions were foolish and put her in an extraordinary amout of risk. Was it her choice? Did she think it was worth the risk? Obviously her actions answer those questions. I still it was foolish.-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydyvr 0 #104 March 20, 2003 Quote Can we please take the semantics argument to PM's? Yes, please do. Nobody like an anti-semantic. . . =(_8^(1) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #105 March 20, 2003 Quote Yes, please do. Nobody like an anti-semantic. please leave race out f it, us semanticans get offended easily P.S "Stupid is as stupid does..." Forrest Gump O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Push 0 #106 March 20, 2003 It seems like there is a common misconception about the nature of Freedom. The nature of true Freedom is that only one person can have absolute freedom at any one time. Hence, people do not have absolute freedom, and for a reason. Take the freedom of peaceful assembly, for instance. The keyword in this, at least to me, is not freedom. It is peaceful. When you assemble in protest and you do not assemble peacefully, you are in violation of the freedom of others. I ask you, standing in front of a bulldozer forcing it to stop, is it not the same as holding the protesters back while the bulldozer destroys the house? If you want to protest, protest peacefully. If you do not, you are not respecting the basic rights of the people you are protesting against. And if you cannot recognize that the people that are doing wrong in your eyes are also people, well then, I have nothing to add. In the former case, if you do not respect their rights, don't expect them to respect yours. This occurance is a bit of an extreme example of the above, but regardless, she took a risk, she tried to force people to do what she wants, it didn't work. My opinion is: Was she stupid? No. Did she deserve to die? No. Is the world fair? No. Was it a good/moral way to achieve her goals? I don't think so. -- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #107 March 21, 2003 i've purposely left this one, and all of the other posts alone today, until now. rob, bad enough you call the deceased names, she has a family, regardles of how she left this world, respect her family, even if you think she's ignorant. in summation of all of the responses, i recall a well known well respected and thought of female sky diver & BASE jumper. i'm not going to mention her name because i'm sure everyone remembers the incident and out of respect for her memory. she was doing a peaceful BASE jump and went in, NP was the cause of her death. she was jumping borrowed gear. would you say she was stupid as well? and if so, why? and if not, why not? observation: people tend to "label" people they are not acclaimated with. this young lady died, she gave her life for a cause she believed in, just as the well known jumper referred to in this post. THINK before you make such derragatory remarks, words are hard to "take back"--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #108 March 21, 2003 No comparison Rog... None at all... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #109 March 21, 2003 Actually... I think it's the perfect comparison. Why is'nt it.?Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jraf 0 #110 March 21, 2003 QuoteQuoteGiven your position on things, I would think you'd have a little more respect for someone who died for what they believed in. Remember, what goes around comes around. I don't respect anyone that lays down in front of a ten ton bulldozer. Taking a bullet trying to save your brothers is one thing but laying down and dying because you don't want a building torn down is NUTS. Rhino Robert you have such depth of insight into things, you should immediately run for President of ASICjraf Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui. Muff #3275 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #111 March 21, 2003 Quoteshe was doing a peaceful BASE jump and went in, NP was the cause of her death. she was jumping borrowed gear. would you say she was stupid as well? and if so, why? and if not, why not? I will not compare a accidental, tragic skydiving death to someone laying down in front of a bulldozer in a war torn country thinking her US passport makes her special trying to stop a home from being torn down. Give me a break. Don't INSULT the skydiver. Shame on you. Answer your own question Rog, Phree... Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #112 March 21, 2003 Quote Robert you have such depth of insight into things, you should immediately run for President of ASIC Jraf... It tends to be easier to have a clear mind when you aren't high.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jraf 0 #113 March 21, 2003 I can't help it man, somehow I have to support my cocaine habit.jraf Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui. Muff #3275 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #115 March 21, 2003 Quote Shame on you. i was merely relating that 2 different women risked their lives and died for a cause they were willing to "make a stand for" "shame on you" for calling the young lady that died in the west bank "stupid" she has family you know. what about the BASE jumper who recently lost their life apparently because this jumper was packing, and forgot to attach the bridle line/pc to the top of the canopy? i doubt you'd call this jumper "stupid" in these forums and get away with it. i've noticed your becoming more and more insensitive (just an observation) reminding me of pre-ban rhino....amember? lighten up a tad bro! no need to attack or dishonor a deceased person because of their beliefs, or actions, they ALL leave family behind. take care, your a better person than that. be safe, and remember, "the life you save, may be your own" --Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mountainman 0 #116 March 21, 2003 While doing a Google search to see what was going on with this after the original thread got deleted, I got the following as part of the result. You can see by what I put in BOLD what irks me : Jordan Times Coverage; Haaretz English News Coverage; AP Photo of Corrie burning mock US flag; Photographs of Rachel Corrie - International Solidarity ... www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Corrie - 21k - Mar 20, 2003 - Cached - Similar pages Rachel Corrie - Portrait of a Heroine : Vancouver Indymedia ... cries as Burning a flag ? Heroine ? Please. Pretty sad for an American. http://www.brandonandlaura.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #117 March 21, 2003 don't get me wrong, i'm neither for, or against any of her actions, i'm not even aware of her past activities. just trying to get other's to bear in mind that others who have passed on, no matter what their legacy leave family members behind. it is generally considered common respect to not publicly slam someone who has passed on considering they have family members who had nothing to do with their activities. i respect what you consider "irking" but i'm referring to respect, plain and simple, nothing else.--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #118 March 21, 2003 Rachel Corrie burns token US flag Draw your own conclusions."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #119 March 21, 2003 You can always count on National People's Radio to be free of bias - NOT This reminds me of that jackass back in 1984 who parked himself in front of an oncoming train that demonstrators had targeted as carrying weapons to Nicaragua. He was run over and lost his legs. He sued. I don't know that outcome of the case. I suspect he lost, because if he had won it would have been trumpeted. However, common sense should tell you when a locomotive is coming that you should get out of the way - they don't exactly stop on a dime."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #120 March 21, 2003 Quotedon't get me wrong, i'm neither for, or against any of her actions, i'm not even aware of her past activities. i'm just assuming your literate. QuoteDraw your own conclusions. i refuse to "judge" someone based solely on their actions, especially someone i never knew.--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #121 March 21, 2003 Again Rog.. I won't compare a skydiver to a flag burning idiot excuse for an American that stands in front of a bulldozer.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
