billvon 2,991 #1 March 19, 2003 The senate just blocked an attempt to include approval for ANWR drilling in the budget. I'm glad they did, not because I think drilling will ruin ANWR, but because there will come a day we desperately need that oil. Even with the spike in gas prices, we have some of the cheapest gas on the planet - we're not desperate for oil when we willingly buy SUV's that get 16 mpg. There will come a day when the Middle East starts to run dry, and on that day I'll be glad we have one last reserve left to keep our country's infrastructure from collapsing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #2 March 19, 2003 I saw a new flash that oil prices had fell $8.00 a barrel Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MuffDiver 0 #3 March 19, 2003 Your right, oil is back down around US$30.00 a barrel. It had reached around $38.oo (I think) __________________________________________________ Don't take life too seriously. You'll never get out alive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #4 March 19, 2003 QuoteI saw a new flash that oil prices had fell $8.00 a barrel Hmmm, wonder what caused that. We all know the war has nothing to do with oil so it must be something else. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #5 March 19, 2003 BillVon: the lack of foresight on the political side has been and more than likely will be the reason for the US's dependency on foreign oil. the middle east will never run dry, it's just too big, too much of it even now, left unexplored, but they're doing seismic work on it right now for future projects. the forecast here is up to the next 20 years. they will continue drilling here, and exporting to the US as long as we have no desire to be energy independendt. oil is the majority of revenue here, and they control OPEC, so i'd say they're in the "driver's seat" i have lobbied for an energy independant US for over 20 years now, it just don't go over well, nobody likes it, everyone hates drilling machinery, the noise, possible pollution, etc...i am perplexed that yet another drilling project has been shot out of the saddle, it get's old. and the fella that rumored oil @ $8.00 a bbl go check out the price of oil & gas Here check out the commodities price: oil: $30.05 a bbl, thats for the 19th, it'll be higher on the 20th, bookmark this site, it's informative, insightful and very resourceful.--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MuffDiver 0 #6 March 19, 2003 I think that he was commenting that oil prices have fallen approximately $8.00 a barrel. The first time I read I thought that he was saying that it was $8.00 a barrel too. EDITED for spelling __________________________________________________ Don't take life too seriously. You'll never get out alive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
12bhi 0 #7 March 19, 2003 Hopefully, by then we will be using something that doesnt fuck the palnet over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #8 March 19, 2003 >i have lobbied for an energy independant US for over 20 years now, > it just don't go over well, nobody likes it, everyone hates drilling > machinery, the noise, possible pollution, etc... Yep. I'd be the first one to vote for new drilling in the US if it was coupled with legislation to a) stop our imports of foreign oil and b) phase out oil usage gradually so our diminishing supplies match our demands. I don't think we'll ever completely run out of oil, but at some point we'll almost certainly run out of cheap oil. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
racer42 0 #9 March 19, 2003 Nice to hear ANWR was spared for now. My Dad designed a pipeline in Saudi about 20 years ago, in the southern area if the Eastern Province. They built most of it. But they waited to drill the wells. The stuff is just sitting there about 4k feet down. They figure it's about 100 year supply at current levels. It's good stuff to.L.A.S.T. #24 Co-Founder Biscuit Brothers Freefly Team Electric Toaster #3 Co-Founder Team Non Sequitor Co-Founder Team Happy Sock Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JJohnson 0 #10 March 19, 2003 I don't care what they phase out or how it effects the car I drive....so long as my scooter still gets gas. I'd miss that V-Twin rumble. As it gets 38 mpg do you think it will still be politically correct?JJ "Call me Darth Balls" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #11 March 19, 2003 I like this because for a few reasons, partly is that I wonder what the point of having a wildlife refuge is, if you're going to be drilling for oil. I don't consider myself a big environmentalist.... but if you're not going to protect a refuge, what's the point of having it? Secondly, I'd like to see gas more expensive. Yes, you heard me. Gas needst to be more expensive. People need to reconsider driving SUV's. Lastly, for a completely different reason, I'd like to see gas prices raised to the point where it makes economical sense to harvest Albertas Oil Sands. There literally is billions of barrels of oil soaked sand lieing on the surface. It's much that just needs to be picked up. Unforutnately, extracting the oil from the sand is expensive... _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #12 March 19, 2003 QuoteSecondly, I'd like to see gas more expensive. Yes, you heard me. Gas needst to be more expensive. People need to reconsider driving SUV's. Lastly, for a completely different reason, I'd like to see gas prices raised to the point where it makes economical sense to harvest Albertas Oil Sands. There literally is billions of barrels of oil soaked sand lieing on the surface. It's much that just needs to be picked up. Unforutnately, extracting the oil from the sand is expensive... I agree with you. But OPEC would never let it happen. They're masterful at manipulating prices and keeping oil cheap enough that alternates will always be more expensive. The only way alternates will be used is when they run out of oil or their use is required by legislation. It will never be market driven. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevin922 0 #13 March 19, 2003 I'm just grateful I have a motorcycle that runs and is paid for.. and now that it's getting warmer I think i'll be using that as my primary means of transportation. The 40+ mpg is much better than my jeep Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #14 March 20, 2003 Until one of you invent a hydrogen, solar or rubber band powered otter or skyvan would you please stop griping about SUVs and other guzzlers. Now I don't want you to quit jumping cuz I need that load to turn and I am not squeamish about burnin the dynos to get my jollies. It just seems there is a certain amount of duplicity here. I love the smell of jet fuel, avgas even racing two stroke blend w/ castor mixed in. At least after the sunset load when we secure the jump ships the turbines quit whining. Glen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #15 March 20, 2003 There are already Hydrogen airplanes in the worksYesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #16 March 20, 2003 I agree with the precept that being energy independent is a good goal. However, now is not the time. It is now, when the rest of the resources are being harvested that we should be carefully planning our independent strategy, what will be the backbone of it, and design the infrastructure around that. Our reserves, and our territory should be the absolute last to be tapped. By doing so, we have in effect assured access to long term cost efficient power sources. Bear in mind, I am not advocating one source of power over another, I'm simply stating that because we have such inexpensive fuel prices here, the longer term strategy, by importing now, does make more sense.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BikerBabe 0 #17 March 20, 2003 I hope the day never comes when we desparately need that oil, because we'd only have about six months to a year at our current rate of consumption to shore up our infrastructure. Here's the USGS survey and economic analysis on oil development in the region. http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/fs-0028-01/fs-0028-01.htm 7.7 billion barrels won't get us very far.Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,446 #18 March 20, 2003 QuoteUntil one of you invent a hydrogen, solar or rubber band powered otter or skyvan would you please stop griping about SUVs and other guzzlers. So as long as we can't address the entire problem perfectly, let's not start? Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #19 March 20, 2003 >Until one of you invent a hydrogen, solar or rubber band powered otter >or skyvan would you please stop griping about SUVs and other guzzlers. A typical jumper uses more fuel during the trip to a boogie than he uses jumping during the boogie. In my old van I'd use about 40 gallons driving to and from Eloy; it was rare that I'd jump more than 25 times. (which is about 25 gallons of avgas.) Nowadays I use about 1/3 the fuel during the drive. And what does a hydrogen airplane have to do with anything? We don't have any hydrogen. We do have a bunch of solar powered airplanes; one just set the world prop-plane altitude record. But I suspect most skydivers wouldn't want to wait a few hours to get to 12K. In any case, a turbine engine can run on biodiesel. A mixture of 80% JP4/20% biodiesel is actually used in some places to extend the life of certain types of turbine engines and reduce their emissions. >and I am not squeamish about burnin the dynos to get my jollies. Fortunately, we can get more jollies per gallon nowadays; we just have to spend the money to make it happen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dazzle 0 #20 March 20, 2003 QuoteOPEC would never let it happen. And what have they got to do with it? In the UK 80% of the price of petrol is tax so we pay through the nose and there is an incentive to use it more economically. America may choose not to do that but how expensive is your choice not OPECs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #21 March 20, 2003 My biggest concern is that this area isn't ruined. Alaska is one of the very few places in the world that is relatively pristine wilderness. I've been up the haul road to Dead Horse (almost to Prudoe Bay), and even shot a caribou up there with my bow. Talk about a beautiful area. My family and I canned the meat in a wall tent and then drove back to Montana. You can drive right across the Brooks Range and then see a hundred miles across tundra to other mountain ranges on the North Slope. I'd hate to see this area all roaded up and ruined in the name of greed. But I suppose it's only a matter of time before this happens. Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #22 March 20, 2003 QuoteQuoteOPEC would never let it happen. And what have they got to do with it? In the UK 80% of the price of petrol is tax so we pay through the nose and there is an incentive to use it more economically. America may choose not to do that but how expensive is your choice not OPECs. Opec has a lot to do with it. If you don't think they carefully determine the price (taking taxes into consideration) to keep it as the best economical choice you're mistaken. Of course the government could tax the hell out of it and make alternatives more attractive. But that would take brave and unpopular legislation that would probably ruin political careers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #23 March 20, 2003 not only did you "hit the nail on the head" with your response, you saved me the trouble" --Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #24 March 20, 2003 I'll go one step farther. When discussing the economics of developing new inovative sources of energy, we're talking about what it actually costs to pull the stuff out of the ground. Currently, our best way to measure this cost is in Dollars / Barrel - the way that oil and gas is measured on the international market. The per barrel price of oil is calculated long before any government gets to apply taxes. Taxes affect the price people pay at the pumps, but they do not affect the price paid for a barrel of crude. It's the price of a barrel of crude that dictates how much investment goes into finding new ways of harvesting energy. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dazzle 0 #25 March 21, 2003 Not at all, the consumer make a choice about what fuel they choose and the only price relevent there is the one they pay, differential taxing can play a part in that. For instance LPG only has 100% tax on it rather than the 400% on petrol giving people an incentive to buy cars that will run on it and then the supply builds to meet that demand. Equally if the fuel costs enough then people won't use it so wastefully. You don't get many people driveing 15mpg cars over here. Now it may be a brave decision for a politician to take but thats your choice and not OPECs Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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