virgin-burner 1 #1 July 23, 2012 i've had a discussion this weekend; are the reserve-toggles realls sewn to the risers? i sat through my last reserve-repack and i could of SWORN thery were NOT sewn. are they!?“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PeteS 0 #2 July 23, 2012 RTFM. Some older rigs call for it, some do not. It's Sunday,and I'm going home.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 8 #3 July 23, 2012 Quotei've had a discussion this weekend; are the reserve-toggles realls sewn to the risers? i sat through my last reserve-repack and i could of SWORN thery were NOT sewn. are they!? Nope, not on most sport rigs, but some riggers out there may put a pass of seal thread (~4.75lb break) thru the toggle and riser. It's pretty common on bailout rigs and older rigs though. (lots with rounds as reserves)"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #4 July 23, 2012 it's monday morning 4AM and i'm not going to RTFM. cheers.“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #5 July 23, 2012 QuoteQuotei've had a discussion this weekend; are the reserve-toggles realls sewn to the risers? i sat through my last reserve-repack and i could of SWORN thery were NOT sewn. are they!? Nope, not on most sport rigs, but some riggers out there may put a pass of seal thread (~4.75lb break) thru the toggle and riser. It's pretty common on bailout rigs and older rigs though. (lots with rounds as reserves) interesting, thanks. that would be to avoid a toggle-fire then, right!?“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 8 #6 July 23, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuotei've had a discussion this weekend; are the reserve-toggles realls sewn to the risers? i sat through my last reserve-repack and i could of SWORN thery were NOT sewn. are they!? Nope, not on most sport rigs, but some riggers out there may put a pass of seal thread (~4.75lb break) thru the toggle and riser. It's pretty common on bailout rigs and older rigs though. (lots with rounds as reserves) interesting, thanks. that would be to avoid a toggle-fire then, right!? Not necessarily, your V3 should have nice strong velcro on the risers/toggles still. If it's getting worn out to the point you're risking a fire, it should be replaced before it get's repacked."I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #7 July 23, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote i've had a discussion this weekend; are the reserve-toggles realls sewn to the risers? i sat through my last reserve-repack and i could of SWORN thery were NOT sewn. are they!? Nope, not on most sport rigs, but some riggers out there may put a pass of seal thread (~4.75lb break) thru the toggle and riser. It's pretty common on bailout rigs and older rigs though. (lots with rounds as reserves) interesting, thanks. that would be to avoid a toggle-fire then, right!? Not necessarily, your V3 should have nice strong velcro on the risers/toggles still. If it's getting worn out to the point you're risking a fire, it should be replaced before it get's repacked. it is actually that strong that at first i was only able to release one side on my first attempt. not as funny as it sounds when you just cutaway from a spinning main from hell that left you dizzy just seconds before! “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #8 July 23, 2012 Quotei've had a discussion this weekend; are the reserve-toggles realls sewn to the risers? As mentioned, some older rigs are like this. It's handy for rigs that didn't have keepers on the reserve risers for the 'nose' of the toggle. The seal thread would pass through the nose and into the riser to keep it in place and prevent a premature brake release. Pretty old-school stuff. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 8 #9 July 23, 2012 Quote it is actually that strong that at first i was only able to release one side on my first attempt. not as funny as it sounds when you just cutaway from a spinning main from hell that left you dizzy just seconds before! Still should be replaced. IMO using seal thread to tack the toggles to the risers because the velcro is worn out is shotty rigging. Furthermore I'd be shocked if a 1-2 pass of seal thread would make it that hard of a pull to unstow, makes me wonder what they tacked it with? I've seen at least a couple Strong Dual Hawks that had the reserve toggles on one side misstowed and it would make for a very hard pull. "I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #10 July 23, 2012 Quote Quote it is actually that strong that at first i was only able to release one side on my first attempt. not as funny as it sounds when you just cutaway from a spinning main from hell that left you dizzy just seconds before! Still should be replaced. IMO using seal thread to tack the toggles to the risers because the velcro is worn out is shotty rigging. Furthermore I'd be shocked if a 1-2 pass of seal thread would make it that hard of a pull to unstow, makes me wonder what they tacked it with? I've seen at least a couple Strong Dual Hawks that had the reserve toggles on one side misstowed and it would make for a very hard pull. wait-wait-wait! the velcro was that strong that i could only release one side at first and then had to pump REALLY hard on the other. i'm not the worlds strongest guy, but i wouldnt call myself weak nonetheless. again, i was under the impression it wasnt tacked when i've had my first cutaway, and i BET i would of noticed if my rigger did when he repacked. i was asking questions on pretty much EVERYTHING he did. i've seen and was explained about freestows as well on that session; didnt even knew they existed before that. was probably the most educational hour i've spent talking about gear and reserves specifically. “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 8 #11 July 23, 2012 Quote wait-wait-wait! the velcro was that strong that i could only release one side at first and then had to pump REALLY hard on the other. i'm not the worlds strongest guy, but i wouldnt call myself weak nonetheless. Try pulling backwards instead of straight down. Peel the velcro, not sheer it."I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinciflies 0 #12 July 23, 2012 I'll never understand how people will jump equipment they don't understand and yet trust it to save their life.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Electronaut 0 #13 July 23, 2012 Sigmas have a pass of seal thread at the link IIRC, to keep the un-cascaded brake lines organized. Not a toggle I know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 8 #14 July 23, 2012 Quote Sigmas have a pass of seal thread at the link IIRC, to keep the un-cascaded brake lines organized. That they do. "I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #15 July 23, 2012 QuoteSigmas have a pass of seal thread at the link IIRC, to keep the un-cascaded brake lines organized. Not a toggle I know. .................................................................. Part of that is because PD 360R steering lines join at the bottom. The other reason is that Sigmas (and Vectors and Strongs) used MIL SPEC L-bar connector links on their reserve risers. If the L-bar links are installed incorrectly, the end cap of the bar can easily snag a steering line. Ergo, why the Sigma manual recommends tying the steering lines with red seal thread. Smarter riggers install tandem reserve L-bar links with the rounded "elbow" outboard. I have long wondered why UPT does not sew on a second steering line - at the top of the riser so that it flops through the slot on the L-bar link? Should I apply for a patent? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #16 July 23, 2012 The original ram air reserves, Safety Flyer, Safety Star and Swift had toggles made with tubular nylon with a 'set' grommet sewn to it for a ring. There was no velcro on the toggle, no toggle hood. Also the original guide rings were 1". After the brakes were set the toggle was tacked with safety thread because there was NOTHING else to hold it in place. i have lots of these toggles floating around the shop. This practice continued to standardized guide ring placement, smaller guide rings, and modern type toggles. Rigging Innovations used to punch the nose of the toggle with a harness needle so it was easier to put a small needle with the safety thread through the toggle. On other rigs I would simply catch the edge of one layer of the nose. Some older riggers still do this. While you would notice the rigger doing it you will NOT feel it when releasing your reserve brakes. Page 16 of the manual here. http://www.ukskydiver.co.uk/cms/index.php?/files/file/1458-swift-cirrus-orion-manualpdf/ page "65" of this manual for RI http://www.ukskydiver.co.uk/cms/index.php?/files/file/1876-talon1-telesis1rgrinstructionspdf/I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #17 July 24, 2012 very informative, thanks! “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base283 0 #18 July 26, 2012 I just want to add this. If your reserve riser/toggle Velcro is getting worn out, It aint the Velcro that is the problem. take care, space Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #19 July 26, 2012 Quote I just want to add this. If your reserve riser/toggle Velcro is getting worn out, It aint the Velcro that is the problem. take care, space “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
