freeflir29 0 #126 March 9, 2003 Quote "poor Joe with glaucoma" Heheheheheee...reminds me of that scene out of "Friday" where the preacher says..."Just a little....ya know....for my cataracts...." Damn I love that movie. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cgross 1 #127 March 9, 2003 The rediculous statement was mearly this, though I would not want to see my kids be either, I would rather have an alcoholic than a Pothead for a child. I should have been more clear. Chances are greater that the alcoholic will go further in life than the pot head. His/her family life will still be screw up don't get me wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #128 March 9, 2003 QuoteHowever, THC was isolated decades ago. While this is true, I seem to recall that those who took the THC pills suffered debilitating side effects, side effects that weren't present when they took a few tokes off the joint. QuoteA lot of the so-called "medical" uses attributed to marijuana are nothing but junk science. Again, this simply isn't true. It may be true that there are other man made drugs that can be used in place of marijuana, but that doesn't make marijuana any less effective. QuoteAs for the value of the hemp plant itself, that's put forward by people who want to legalize dope, and not because they're concerned about the economics of cotton. Again, untrue. Hemp is superior to cotton in many ways, and contrary to popular opinion, smoking hemp won't get you anything but a headache. Hemp is not a byproduct of the marijuana plant. QuoteWant to challenge me about the medical value of dope? Show me the double-blind random research that PROVES IT, not just stories about "poor Mary on Chemotherapy" or "poor Joe with glaucoma" testifying that "Yup, marijuana worked for me!" Impossible. You can't do a double blind study when the methods of ingestion are significantly different. It just doesn't work. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #129 March 9, 2003 QuoteYou know why I smoke cigaretts? Because my parents did; When little bobby start stealing daddys pot and bringing to school what then So...since little Bobby can't control himself and is OBVIOUSLY not responsible for his own actions the government should be? Think about what you just said please.....maybe you should move to North Korea. I'm sure they will be glad to make all your choices for you in your daily life. Just so you don't have to worry about it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,008 #130 March 9, 2003 >If it became legal, it would be easier for even younger kids to get. You got that backwards. Sellers of legal drugs (alcohol and tobacco) proof kids. Drug dealers don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cgross 1 #131 March 9, 2003 See, that is just far off subject. You are comparing NK to the US government... That is sad. Because the USA says Pot is illegal, the are now as bad as N korea. I really want to break the "NO PERSONAL ATTACKS POLICY" because that was the FUCKING stupidest most RETARDED statment I have ever heard. But I will not insult you personally. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,008 #132 March 9, 2003 >Chances are greater that the alcoholic will go further in life than the pot head. Statistics are overwhelmingly against that. Any poll on illegal drug use is suspect, but every survey I've seen have shown that pot smokers are far more successful than alcoholics. Perhaps because they have more incentive to conceal their usage, or THC impairs you less than alcohol, or alcohol poisoning kills you faster than THC - whatever the cause, they seem to do better than alcoholics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cgross 1 #133 March 9, 2003 bill read my explanation why.... A little kid won nessesarily go find a dealer, but if mommy has some, they may be tempted to take it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,460 #134 March 9, 2003 I've known some serious alcoholics, and some serious potheads. I'd much rather have a pothead in the family; they're far less destructive, particularly to the family. Yes, the alcoholic may "go farther," but they're also far more likely to drive aggressively while seriously impaired (obviously there are a lot more drunks on the road, so it's hard to make too strong a comparison). I'd rather have a child who can maintain successful relationships with others than one who is a smashing success at a career, at the cost of harming others. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #135 March 9, 2003 QuoteYou are comparing NK to the US government... I didn't compare the two. I pointed out your willingness to let "A Government" think for you. You obviously feel that the "average person" just can't make some choices and they would be better off leaving those choices up to "A Government." I like to be able to make my own choices. The less the government sticks their nose in my business....the better. You OTOH seem quite comfy giving up those rights to determine your own destiny. That scares the shit out of me. Many people in the world would put a "sheep" tag on you. I certainly do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cgross 1 #136 March 9, 2003 I don't know about the "a lot more drunks on the road" thing. There is a study being conducted in NY about that right now. They are finding more and more that a lot of accidents may have been caused by smoking and driving too. Either way, drinking or smoking and jumping should not happen. If I saw it at my DZ, I would rat them out. Even if I lost friend doing it. No one is going to put my life in jeopardy for their fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cgross 1 #137 March 9, 2003 If you do not like the government, then vote differently next time around. Apparently you are in the minority, because the majority of the people in this country voted for what situation we are currently in. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #138 March 9, 2003 Looks like my point was missed. Yes, hemp can have low THC content to the point where it has little or no narcotic value, but that isn't the point I was trying to make. That hemp product advocacy is simply another method of attempting legalization was my point. As for medical value, I'm just asking for real scientific-method proof, not opinions. A real scientist knows that without the double-blind random, his own bias will skew the results. I wasn't referring to any particular method of ingestion. In my opinion, the advocates of legalization aren't so much concerned for the welfare of glaucoma or cancer patients or "Big Cotton", so much as they are simply in it for themselves. Up here in the Seattle area, a lot of that advocacy is being done by bongo-banging tie-dyed dreadlocked 60's throwbacks, not by suit-and-tie establishment types. If it were, I might be inclined to take such advocacy more seriously. That the advocacy comes largely from fringe elements (and to quote P.J. O'Rourke, "But liberals aren't very interested in such real and material freedoms. They have a more innocent - not to say toddlerlike - idea of freedom. Liberals want the freedom to put anything into their mouths, to say bad words and to expose their private parts in art museums.") doesn't impress me much. If however, it came from the scientific and medical communities (I know you'll say that in the US, such people are in the pocket of the big pharmecuticals and the HMOs, but that isn't true everywhere else), I'd certainly pay more attention...and I'm still waiting. edit for spelling."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seedy 0 #139 March 9, 2003 Quote Ya know...I really can't stand Bill Clinton....but STUPID isn't one of the things I would call him. They don't usually just hand out Rhodes scholorships. Don't confuse stupidity with intelligence. Even educated people can be stupid. I intend to live forever -- so far, so good. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #140 March 9, 2003 Quote Many people in the world would put a "sheep" tag on you. I certainly do. Something you do NOT want to hear from Clay! Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
78RATS 0 #141 March 9, 2003 Quote As for the value of the hemp plant itself, that's put forward by people who want to legalize dope We could stop cutting down the rain forests if farmers grew hemp. It's a source of fuel. It's used to make clothing, rope, etc. The ship that brought "Christopher" to America had sails made of hemp. The wagons that went west in the pioneer days had axles lubricated with hemp oil. At least that's what some doper told me Rat for Life - Fly till I die When them stupid ass bitches ask why Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #142 March 9, 2003 QuoteLooks like my point was missed. Yes, hemp can have low THC content to the point where it has little or no narcotic value, but that isn't the point I was trying to make. That hemp product advocacy is simply another method of attempting legalization was my point. Your point wasn't missed, it was factually incorrect. Industrial hemp comes doesn't come from the marijuana plant. It isn't hemps low THC content that makes it unattractive to the pot-heads, it's the other chemicals in hemp that bind to the same receptors as THC. This prevents anyone smoking hemp from getting high from the small amounts of THC present in hemp. QuoteAs for medical value, I'm just asking for real scientific-method proof, not opinions. A real scientist knows that without the double-blind random, his own bias will skew the results. I wasn't referring to any particular method of ingestion. How is it possible to do a double blind study when product "A" is ingested via a pill, and product "B" is smoked? Consider the distinct taste and smell of marijuana as well. You're not going to get a double blind test here, it's not possible. QuoteIn my opinion, the advocates of legalization aren't so much concerned for the welfare of glaucoma or cancer patients or "Big Cotton", so much as they are simply in it for themselves. Up here in the Seattle area, a lot of that advocacy is being done by bongo-banging tie-dyed dreadlocked 60's throwbacks, not by suit-and-tie establishment types. If it were, I might be inclined to take such advocacy more seriously. That the advocacy comes largely from fringe elements (and to quote P.J. O'Rourke, "But liberals aren't very interested in such real and material freedoms. They have a more innocent - not to say toddlerlike - idea of freedom. Liberals want the freedom to put anything into their mouths, to say bad words and to expose their private parts in art museums.") doesn't impress me much. I guess that depends on which advocates you decide to listen to. It wasn't a bunch of bongo-banging potheads that convinced the California legislature to change their stance on medical marijuana. It's a shame that it's the bongo-banging tie-dyed dreadlocked 60's throwbacks that get the most press (unfortunately a suit and tie guy just isn't as interesting for the evening news), but they're not the only ones doing pro-marijuana advocacy, I would submit if anything that they're hurting the cause. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #143 March 9, 2003 QuoteThe uses other than recreation are still under debate. Enough doctors have come out saying that marijuana does have medicinal effect and value that I'm convinced of that use. Other uses for marijuana that are pretty hard to debate... hemp fibers can be made into paper, rope, and clothing amongst other things. Hemp seed can be used to make fuel and is very high in essential fatty acids. Here is more on the same subject. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SniperCJ 0 #144 March 9, 2003 QuoteI like to be able to make my own choices. The less the government sticks their nose in my business....the better. Well youre gonna LOVE working for the Feds then. Only branch of Federal law enforcement thats worse than the FBI about their "holier than thou attitude"... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmcguffee 0 #145 March 9, 2003 Quote Heheheheheee...reminds me of that scene out of "Friday" where the preacher says..."Just a little....ya know....for my cataracts...." Damn I love that movie. LOL, I've seen that movie about 32 times. It was one of three good movies we had when I was deployed to Saudi for 5 months. It is one of my all time favorites. Do you guys want to turn out like Smokey!? Stay off the pot! Clay, did you know that your sig line says this Quote Show the boobies...show the boobies when highlighted? How did you do that? "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmcguffee 0 #146 March 10, 2003 QuoteSomebody who did spend a significant amount of time working with those who are under the influence, knows that the reactions to a first time use, vs. the reaction to long time use if very different, and can not be put together into the same category. You are exactly right. People who have used MJ for a long period of time find it harder and harder to get high. They have to smoke more to get the same effect as when they started. Some of them eventually turn to harder drugs to try and achieve the high again. You develop the same response to alcohol. It gets harder and harder to get drunk. You have to compare apples to apples. Say, a first time drinker to a first time MJ user. "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #147 March 10, 2003 Quote Well youre gonna LOVE working for the Feds then. Only branch of Federal law enforcement thats worse than the FBI about their "holier than thou attitude"... Yeah....at PT here we do the "FBI Stretch." It involves putting your hand behind your head and onto your shoulder blades. That way you can pat yourself on the back. Trust me....If the job was "Law Evforcement." I wouldn't be here. I'm just not "Cop" material. Being that it's Counter-Terrorism....THAT I can do. Quote Clay, did you know that your sig line says this Show the boobies...show the boobies Yep......it's a secret...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nathaniel 0 #148 March 10, 2003 It's amusing to me when legislators frame their laws in a vacuum, like when Indiana tried to make it state law that pi = 3.2 . (http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_341.html) Cannabis plants don't care about rights, they don't care about human interference, they are weeds... I can understand regulating consumption, even if I don't agree with it...but cultivation? That's vain. nathanielMy advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmcguffee 0 #149 March 10, 2003 Quote Yeah....at PT here we do the "FBI Stretch." It involves putting your hand behind your head and onto your shoulder blades. That way you can pat yourself on the back. Ha........Ha......Ha. "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #150 March 10, 2003 QuoteYou are exactly right. People who have used MJ for a long period of time find it harder and harder to get high. They have to smoke more to get the same effect as when they started. Some of them eventually turn to harder drugs to try and achieve the high again. You develop the same response to alcohol. It gets harder and harder to get drunk. You have to compare apples to apples. Say, a first time drinker to a first time MJ user. please show studies that back this assertion. as i said earlier the majority of the information used to justify the govts position on MJ are 30+ years old this is the "slippery slope" fallacy as well btw. Quote[freeflir29] I pointed out your willingness to let "A Government" think for you. You obviously feel that the "average person" just can't make some choices and they would be better off leaving those choices up to "A Government." I like to be able to make my own choices. The less the government sticks their nose in my business....the better. You OTOH seem quite comfy giving up those rights to determine your own destiny. That scares the shit out of me. Many people in the world would put a "sheep" tag on you. I certainly do. preach on!! i chose not to be a shepard as well spending my life trying to convince sheep that what is best for me is also best for theml..one vote is pointless in the face of the 1000s who cannot think for themselves to qoute Blake out of context "one rule for lion and lamb is oppression.."____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
