rhino 0 #51 March 10, 2003 QuoteShame on us for not doing it right the first time. We allowed them to weasel in the "serious consequences" into 1441. We should have stood our ground then. I TOTALLY AGREE!!! We shouldn't even be at the table again but we are TRYING to be diplomatic.. lol Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #52 March 10, 2003 Quote I'd like to think out intelligence agencies would know long before he actually had something like that operational. Impossible.. The public and the UN demands intelligence. Each time we give them some more of our spies die. Less people want to be spies or snitches for us because they learn we have no loyalty to them..Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,008 #53 March 10, 2003 >Shame on us for not doing it right the first time. We allowed them to > weasel in the "serious consequences" into 1441. We should have > stood our ground then. Yep. Had we set a date and a consequence back then, we wouldn't be in this situation now. Fortunately we have the chance to pass a resolution that _does_ call those things out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingferret 0 #54 March 10, 2003 So bill, assuming we do that, do you think Saddam would cooperate?-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,008 #55 March 10, 2003 >So bill, assuming we do that, do you think Saddam would cooperate? If I were a betting man: 5% odds that he will cooperate - just disclose everything he has and tell all his upper level people to tell all and give up all their arms of any type. 45% odds that he will do the absolute minimum he can to keep from being attacked i.e. agree on the last day to destroy 90% of his missiles or something. 50% odds that he'll just plain balk or offer some meaningless gesture, like inviting Blix for a visit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tasadin 0 #56 March 10, 2003 Quote50% odds that he'll just plain balk or offer some meaningless gesture, like inviting Blix for a visit. Hehe apperently there is always beer in his fridge, except on fridays the holy day when he does fantastic tea and sticky buns!!! "If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #57 March 10, 2003 Quote Hehe apperently there is always beer in his fridge, except on fridays the holy day when he does fantastic tea and sticky buns!!! -- Nice -- So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JJohnson 0 #58 March 11, 2003 How many times have Iraq's planes been shot down in no fly zones since the end of the Gulf War? How many times have we dropped ordinance on Iraq since then? It is obvious that SH really doesn't give a fuck about serious consequences! He doesn't think we will follow through. And everytime we go back to your version of diplomacy, SH is further convinced he has nothing to fear. He has been tap dancing around for so many years this is a fucking game to him. So we either A) do not care what he does, pull out and let the Useless Nations deal with it.....when their tap dance fails, they can come beg us for help......or B) WE, as in the U.S. offer SH a resolution...comply now or we kill you tomorrow. Anything less is insulting and meaningless. At this point I am all for ALL U.S. forces pulling out completely....let the rest of the planet deal with this shit. I'm real damn tired of the U.S. being the both the solution and cause of every problem in the world. Germany, Russia and France...deal with it, and when you are done with that shit.....go take care of China and Korea, don't call us until they get to Moscow. Have fun being diplomatic. Have fun screwing each other over in a nice civilized fashion.JJ "Call me Darth Balls" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #59 March 11, 2003 Quote Fortunately we have the chance to pass a resolution that _does_ call those things out. Bill, 2 weeks ago you asked for more time, he's had it. you want to give him MORE time? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #60 March 11, 2003 LOL Funny... A German is doing the inspections.. = Germany isn't playing ball.. Thr French and Russians supply Iraq's military.. = The French and the Russians aren't playing ball... Things that make you go hmmmmmm?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,008 #61 March 11, 2003 >It is obvious that SH really doesn't give a fuck about serious consequences! Then why has he just started destroying his missiles? Why is he allowing inspectors back in? If he doesn't care why isn't he just flipping us the bird? >So we either A) do not care what he does, pull out and let the > Useless Nations deal with it.....when their tap dance fails, they can > come beg us for help......or B) WE, as in the U.S. offer SH a > resolution...comply now or we kill you tomorrow. Anything less is > insulting and meaningless. In the real world, there are more than two choices, more colors than black and white. I choose C) - pass a resolution within the UN that gives him X more days to comply with A, B and C, all spelled out very clearly. If he does not comply we attack. >At this point I am all for ALL U.S. forces pulling out completely.... Including Israel? Hmm. I wouldn't be against that, actually, as long as we a) have a plan on which resultant wars we participate in and b) we stage it so no US personnel are left undefended during the withdrawal. I suspect that we'd be back in six months during the first Israeli/Syrian war, so I think that might not achieve the desired objective (i.e. really getting out of the middle east.) >Have fun being diplomatic. Have fun screwing each other over in a >nice civilized fashion. Using words like "fuck" and "screwing over" a lot doesn't make your case any stronger; it sorta does the opposite. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,008 #62 March 11, 2003 >you want to give him MORE time? It doesn't really matter what I want (or what you want.) I would like to see the UN decide on how much time to give him and then stick to that. He reacts only at the last moment; give him a last moment and see what it does. Holding off the killing for a few weeks isn't the end of the world (unless you make bodybags I suppose.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #63 March 11, 2003 Quote>It is obvious that SH really doesn't give a fuck about serious consequences! Then why has he just started destroying his missiles? Why is he allowing inspectors back in? If he doesn't care why isn't he just flipping us the bird? You're kidding right? 4 a week? Speculation is that he can and is building them faster than that. No matter what, I'm certain that they can be destroyed quicker than that. The missles he destroys are nothing more than a show for the world. If he were serious they'd all be gone by now. QuoteIn the real world, there are more than two choices, more colors than black and white. I choose C) - pass a resolution within the UN that gives him X more days to comply with A, B and C, all spelled out very clearly. If he does not comply we attack. What do we do if France or Russia absolutely will not allow such a resolution to pass? Chirac said today that he would veto the most recent resolution. What do we do if France vetos the next resolution and the one after that? - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JJohnson 0 #64 March 11, 2003 The more option you give him and the more gray areas you leave...the longer this drags out. In which case at least go back to your opinion a few weeks ago which was something like....We don't go to war and take another 10 years if that is what it takes....something like that...don't quote me on it and I don't want to go hunting through old posts to find it. At that point you were at least committed to non-war...no you are straddling the fence....next you will put conditions on the fighting.... Black and white is lot easier....and in truth something is either right or wrong.JJ "Call me Darth Balls" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #65 March 11, 2003 QuoteI would like to see the UN decide on how much time to give him and then stick to that. He reacts only at the last moment; give him a last moment and see what it does. It would be nice.. But Hans is having fun being the Hero inspecting... The french don't want to spoil future military contracts with Iraq nor do the Russians. They know "France and Russia" That if they don't play we will go anyways and when we destroy all Saddhams military hardware they will make a bundle replenishing them.. The French and Russians are entirely predictable... As far as Hans is concerned? The investigators aren't even investigators. They are shown what Iraq wants to show them. They are not trained in finding WMD's.. Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #66 March 11, 2003 QuoteThen why has he just started destroying his missiles? Why is he allowing inspectors back in? If he doesn't care why isn't he just flipping us the bird? .... .... In the real world, there are more than two choices, more colors than black and white. I choose C) - pass a resolution within the UN that gives him X more days to comply with A, B and C, all spelled out very clearly. If he does not comply we attack. You state that there is more than black and white, yet you state that destruction of a few missiles equals compliance? Asking why Hussein allowed inspectors back in applies a "B&W" of": "Oh, he's willing. He cares."So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #67 March 11, 2003 And let's remember... They are missiles that Saddham said DIDN'T exist after the last UN resolution was signed... More lies.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JJohnson 0 #68 March 11, 2003 >Using words like "fuck" and "screwing over" a lot >doesn't make you case any stronger; it sorta does >the opposite. Like I give a fuck.JJ "Call me Darth Balls" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,008 #69 March 11, 2003 >You're kidding right? 4 a week? 56 so far according to CNN. >What do we do if France or Russia absolutely will not allow such a > resolution to pass? Chirac said today that he would veto the most > recent resolution. What do we do if France vetos the next resolution > and the one after that? They will certainly not veto _all_ possible resolutions. Is a compromise possible that both disarms Hussein and will be passed by France? I believe there is; they voted for the original resolution. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #70 March 11, 2003 Quote>Using words like "fuck" and "screwing over" a lot >doesn't make you case any stronger; it sorta does >the opposite. Like I give a fuck. Amen Brother... Semper Fi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #71 March 11, 2003 Quote56 so far according to CNN. According to Powell they are taking them apart and reassembling them in another room? Who do we believe? CNN? Or Powell?? I trust Powell over the press anyday.. Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,008 #72 March 11, 2003 >According to Powell they are taking them apart and reassembling >them in another room? Video shows them being crushed by a bulldozer. Could you reassemble even a bicycle that was crushed by a bulldozer? If so you're better than any mechanic I ever met. >Who do we believe? CNN? Or Powell?? Neither CNN nor Powell is there. Blix is. I believe him. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #73 March 11, 2003 I wonder who supplied that video? Iraq? I saw video of them welding the exhaust plumes off of the rockets. So I guess they are being inconsistent in their means of destructing the weapons as well???? Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingferret 0 #74 March 11, 2003 Time changes all things. A number of weeks ago Blix did not even know these things existed. What might he know in more time? I seriously doubt it is any better. Each day this goes on, I am more proud of my vote back in Nov. 2000.-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #75 March 11, 2003 >I wonder who supplied that video? I believe it was FoxNews.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
